Appologies

[altiplano]

Well on a good note, if this comes to pass, it boosts numbers and dues to the point that there is no question that we go in at A carrier status when we join ALPA.

[Johnny767]

The only thing threatening the Junior Pilots right now, is who gets on the merger committee. No fear mongering - important discussion! ACPA was out of their league against the CAIL merger committee for two reasons, the CAIL group were merger experts and ACPA was arrogant.

I am all for change and welcome the representation vote, putting ACPA out of its misery. Take a look at the P4C slate and tell me how much merger experience there is?

[planebored]

The only thing threatening the Junior Pilots right now, is who gets on the merger committee. No fear mongering - important discussion! ACPA was out of their league against the CAIL merger committee for two reasons, the CAIL group were merger experts and ACPA was arrogant.

I am all for change and welcome the representation vote, putting ACPA out of its misery. Take a look at the P4C slate and tell me how much merger experience there is?

This is what you don't understand. For some reason you seem to think that people on the P4C group are going to come in and run everything. You know that's not how it works, right? A few ppl are running under a banner of ideas and vision for change and they still need to win their seat. There are only a handful and if they win there will still be processes to fill committees with regular members who apply. P4C is running mostly under a want for stronger governance and oversight.. but you somehow think they will come in and somehow take over without following the current Governance rules in place?

You really don't get it.

And anyways it's not like I trust anyone currently part of the MM crowd to have any success in a merger. Personally I'll take P4C because they are open to new ideas and using the vast ALPA resources. Instead of a bunch of overpriced lawyers who don't know their head from their ass.

[Fanblade]

The only thing threatening the Junior Pilots right now, is who gets on the merger committee. No fear mongering - important discussion! ACPA was out of their league against the CAIL merger committee for two reasons, the CAIL group were merger experts and ACPA was arrogant.

I am all for change and welcome the representation vote, putting ACPA out of its misery. Take a look at the P4C slate and tell me how much merger experience there is?

The last election a group ran for office with the agenda to stop the progression toward ALPA. They just weren’t up front about it to the membership.

In fact ACPA has had this happen multiple times now. People with a common agenda get elected and pursue said agenda.

This time, for a change, we have a group with an agenda, and they are completely up front about it.

Completely forthright. Will they sway the balance on the MEC, if enough get elected, toward ALPA? I hope so.

But they are just 3 people. It’s not like ACPA will be suddenly upended.

[Johnny767]

Where to start on who doesn't get it. So the P4C crowd isn't going to take over but we will all be in ALPA before we start down the merger road with Transat. If that is the mantra they are preaching to the junior crowd, heaven help you!

You are either that naive or simply do not have an understanding of how representation works.

[planebored]

Where to start on who doesn't get it. So the P4C crowd isn't going to take over but we will all be in ALPA before we start down the merger road with Transat. If that is the mantra they are preaching to the junior crowd, heaven help you!

You are either that naive or simply do not have an understanding of how representation works.

I'm not talking about a merger here.

This whole merger shit and AT stuff came after we originally started looking into ALPA. Regardless of what happens on that front the fact of the matter is ACPA is still broken. If you actually read the website you'll notice ALPA is just one small issue. Still lots to fix within ACPA now and P4C seems to hit the nail on the head on multiple fronts. Maybe we end up ALPA, maybe we don't. What I do know though is I am happy to give those who want to see this change a shot. Mike McKay has had his and he's failed. I don't trust him, I think he's crooked and I think he doesn't act like a leader.

[Johnny767]

The last election a group ran for office with the agenda to stop the progression toward ALPA. They just weren’t up front about it to the membership.

In fact ACPA has had this happen multiple times now. People with a common agenda get elected and pursue said agenda.

This time, for a change, we have a group with an agenda, and they are completely up front about it.

Completely forthright. Will they sway the balance on the MEC, if enough get elected, toward ALPA? I hope so.

But they are just 3 people. It’s not like ACPA will be suddenly upended.
[/quote]

ALPA will be a done deal after the merger, the CIRB will mandate a representation vote. So that wind is taken out of the sails of the P4C. As mentioned above, no way in hell we could get there any sooner.

[planebored]

ALPA will be a done deal after the merger, the CIRB will mandate a representation vote. So that wind is taken out of the sails of the P4C. As mentioned above, no way in hell we could get there any sooner.

I doubt they will care because the end result is the same. At least they all stood up for something and put their name behind a cause.

[TFTMB heavy]

The last election a group ran for office with the agenda to stop the progression toward ALPA. They just weren’t up front about it to the membership.

In fact ACPA has had this happen multiple times now. People with a common agenda get elected and pursue said agenda.

This time, for a change, we have a group with an agenda, and they are completely up front about it.

Completely forthright. Will they sway the balance on the MEC, if enough get elected, toward ALPA? I hope so.

But they are just 3 people. It’s not like ACPA will be suddenly upended.

ALPA will be a done deal after the merger, the CIRB will mandate a representation vote. So that wind is taken out of the sails of the P4C. As mentioned above, no way in hell we could get there any sooner.
[/quote]

A representation vote is not guaranteed, the CIRB can force TS to join ACPA given the big size difference in the groups. Even the ACPA CA can be imposed by the board.

Also, ALPA will not pursue any relationship with ACPA as long as the deal with TS is not finalized or dead. Their duty of representation is towards the TS group and any talks with ACPA would be inappropriate.

[planebored]

Also, ALPA will not pursue any relationship with ACPA as long as the deal with TS is not finalized or dead. Their duty of representation is towards the TS group and any talks with ACPA would be inappropriate.

Not true.

[Fanblade]

ALPA will be a done deal after the merger, the CIRB will mandate a representation vote. So that wind is taken out of the sails of the P4C. As mentioned above, no way in hell we could get there any sooner.

Do you want to join ALPA C? Or restart the deal to join ALPA I?

A representation vote will likely end up with us in ALPA C. Not ideal. In fact ACPA might win that choice.

We need control of how this happens. A merger with ALPA is far superior than simply a representation vote dumping ACPA.

This is bigger than simple representation. ACPA has assets, liabilities and cash.

[Fanblade]

Also, ALPA will not pursue any relationship with ACPA as long as the deal with TS is not finalized or dead. Their duty of representation is towards the TS group and any talks with ACPA would be inappropriate.

Not true.

Not true. The very first thing that happens is a representation vote. Well before seniority issues get to an arbitrator we will ALL be represented by either ACPA or ALPA.

Edit: Did you mean ALPA wouldn’t pursue ACPA between now and the closing date of the deal? Like in this instance between now and Jan 2021? That’s probably accurate.

The only thing the remains outside that umbrella is the merger committees. They remain ACPA on AC’s side and ALPA on Transat side until integration is complete.

[Johnny767]

The last election a group ran for office with the agenda to stop the progression toward ALPA. They just weren’t up front about it to the membership.

In fact ACPA has had this happen multiple times now. People with a common agenda get elected and pursue said agenda.

This time, for a change, we have a group with an agenda, and they are completely up front about it.

Completely forthright. Will they sway the balance on the MEC, if enough get elected, toward ALPA? I hope so.

But they are just 3 people. It’s not like ACPA will be suddenly upended.

ALPA will be a done deal after the merger, the CIRB will mandate a representation vote. So that wind is taken out of the sails of the P4C. As mentioned above, no way in hell we could get there any sooner.

A representation vote is not guaranteed, the CIRB can force TS to join ACPA given the big size difference in the groups. Even the ACPA CA can be imposed by the board.

Also, ALPA will not pursue any relationship with ACPA as long as the deal with TS is not finalized or dead. Their duty of representation is towards the TS group and any talks with ACPA would be inappropriate.
[/quote]


I can't remember the process, been 20 years, but there will definitely be a representation vote. It may require the ALPA (Transat Pilots) to force it through the CIRB? Together we can push for ALPA ( I ) and Group A!!!

[TFTMB heavy]

Also, ALPA will not pursue any relationship with ACPA as long as the deal with TS is not finalized or dead. Their duty of representation is towards the TS group and any talks with ACPA would be inappropriate.

Not true.

Not true. The very first thing that happens is a representation vote. Well before seniority issues get to an arbitrator we will ALL be represented by either ACPA or ALPA.

Edit: Did you mean ALPA wouldn’t pursue ACPA between now and the closing date of the deal? Like in this instance between now and Jan 2021? That’s probably accurate.

The only thing the remains outside that umbrella is the merger committees. They remain ACPA on AC’s side and ALPA on Transat side until integration is complete.

I mean exactly what you put in your edit. And yes the merger committees remain represented by thei original unions even years down the road.

[TFTMB heavy]

The last election a group ran for office with the agenda to stop the progression toward ALPA. They just weren’t up front about it to the membership.

In fact ACPA has had this happen multiple times now. People with a common agenda get elected and pursue said agenda.

This time, for a change, we have a group with an agenda, and they are completely up front about it.

Completely forthright. Will they sway the balance on the MEC, if enough get elected, toward ALPA? I hope so.

But they are just 3 people. It’s not like ACPA will be suddenly upended.

ALPA will be a done deal after the merger, the CIRB will mandate a representation vote. So that wind is taken out of the sails of the P4C. As mentioned above, no way in hell we could get there any sooner.

A representation vote is not guaranteed, the CIRB can force TS to join ACPA given the big size difference in the groups. Even the ACPA CA can be imposed by the board.

Also, ALPA will not pursue any relationship with ACPA as long as the deal with TS is not finalized or dead. Their duty of representation is towards the TS group and any talks with ACPA would be inappropriate.

I can't remember the process, been 20 years, but there will definitely be a representation vote. It may require the ALPA (Transat Pilots) to force it through the CIRB? Together we can push for ALPA ( I ) and Group A!!!
[/quote]

The board has the authority to not hold a vote in regards to representation.

[planebored]

The board wants us. So yeah, not really going to be a problem. But keep peddling the anti ALPA narrative and misinformation.

Maybe go talk to someone who was part of the ALPA initiative and get the facts.

[TFTMB heavy]

The board wants us. So yeah, not really going to be a problem. But keep peddling the anti ALPA narrative and misinformation.

Maybe go talk to someone who was part of the ALPA initiative and get the facts.

Are you directing that at me?

[Johnny767]

The board wants us. So yeah, not really going to be a problem. But keep peddling the anti ALPA narrative and misinformation.

Maybe go talk to someone who was part of the ALPA initiative and get the facts.

Good lord, everyone in this conversation is pro-ALPA, try to keep up! I have spent plenty of time in Herndon and was likely an ALPA member before you could spell "Airplane."

[altiplano]

The board wants us. So yeah, not really going to be a problem. But keep peddling the anti ALPA narrative and misinformation.

Maybe go talk to someone who was part of the ALPA initiative and get the facts.

Good lord, everyone in this conversation is pro-ALPA, try to keep up! I have spent plenty of time in Herndon and was likely an ALPA member before you could spell "Airplane."

[planebored]

The board wants us. So yeah, not really going to be a problem. But keep peddling the anti ALPA narrative and misinformation.

Maybe go talk to someone who was part of the ALPA initiative and get the facts.

Good lord, everyone in this conversation is pro-ALPA, try to keep up! I have spent plenty of time in Herndon and was likely an ALPA member before you could spell "Airplane."

I love how everyone assumes posters here are all in their 20's.

['97 Tercel]

yep

..and live in your parent's basement.

[planebored]

Brb getting some avacado toast

[98 Corolla]

yep

..and live in your parent's basement.

Ridiculous. I live in someone else's basement.

[gtappl]

How will the AT merger affect future hiring? I imagine the whole industry won't need new people for years with AC having such a big surplus?

[200Above]

How will the AT merger affect future hiring? I imagine the whole industry won't need new people for years with AC having such a big surplus?

Hiring. Now that’s a word I haven’t heard in awhile.