AC and TRZ Agree to Terminate Arrangement

[Kardow]

Wow. Really good CRM over here, can't wait to fly with you guys as well.

As always, some people you will get along, some you won't, some people you will agree with what they are saying, some you won't, but at least everyone deserve a minimum of respect.

I get that this potential seniority list merger brings a lot of emotion and can pull at your heartstrings, but nothing is done yet, nor do we have any control over it for now... let's try to keep it civilized.

[milhouse]

And by the way anyone of you want to make a compain to your respective union below you will find FL280 link i have can prove with Ip and pass employment this si the right guy on FB everybody in Qc hate him is pass co-worker hate him the sory repeat itself let's put a end to it i am
staring a group action for difamation enough is F...... enough !

This is fucked up. FL280 may be a dink but doxxing him is messed up. What if you have the wrong guy. You'll be the one getting sued for defamation. This is exactly the type of toxicity we need to prevent. This is not the road either group should be trying to go down. Delete this garbage.

[FL320]

I know it will please some of you here but my thoughts are for our colleagues (pilots) that are about to lose their job -again!- before Christmas; thanks to Air Canada (my own conclusion). Our domestic flights were more than 75% full...how can AT justify the removal of the domestic flying if it’s not an AC’s request? (No need to thank us for the extra job for your group, merry Christmas)

[rudder]

I know it will please some of you here but my thoughts are for our colleagues (pilots) that are about to lose their job -again!- before Christmas; thanks to Air Canada (my own conclusion). Our domestic flights were more than 75% full...how can AT justify the removal of the domestic flying if it’s not an AC’s request? (No need to thank us for the extra job for your group, merry Christmas)

The victor dictates terms.

If TRZ thought they could go it alone, or generate a better offer from a party other than AC, then the original purchase agreement would simply have been allowed to expire. Instead, it was renegotiated by TRZ on terms acceptable to AC given the COVID reality.

There is no reason that AC would want to have to ‘compete’ with TS for finite passengers on the eve of closing the acquisition transaction. It was a given that AC does not see the role of TS going forward as a domestic capacity provider. That is the role of AC (and Express).

TS will have a limited winter sun schedule. A demand/fleet appropriate summer 2021 TATL schedule. And hopefully a meaningful winter 2021/2022 sun schedule as the de facto Rouge replacement.

No AC pilot will be recalled due to TS domestic flight cancellations. These are corporate decisions, not labour decisions.

[Fanblade]

I know it will please some of you here but my thoughts are for our colleagues (pilots) that are about to lose their job -again!- before Christmas; thanks to Air Canada (my own conclusion). Our domestic flights were more than 75% full...how can AT justify the removal of the domestic flying if it’s not an AC’s request? (No need to thank us for the extra job for your group, merry Christmas)

It doesn’t please me that there might be more furloughs.

But Rudder is correct. Corporate is making pragmatic decisions. Competing with yourself makes no sense. When your losing 550M a month combined? They have no choice.

Still it sucks. My condolences. The same as to the AC furloughs.

[FL-510]

Pathetic.... You guys make me happy I stuck to corporate

[altiplano]

Altiplano, finally a statement out of you that’s logical and sound. More of this please. It has been a while.

I agree, merge this shit sooner than later and get it over with so we can get the footage of FL280 and Jetpilot diverting over a disagreement, lol. I have control, no I have control, no I have control, no I have control.

That's all I've been saying this whole time... it's been pretty consistent. I'm not sure what you think I've been writing on this topic.

I'll buy beers and steaks if jetpilot and FL280 want to have a rumble... we can make it a team building event, maybe even make it interesting winner takes an extra seniority bump for their side..

[altiplano]

I know it will please some of you here but my thoughts are for our colleagues (pilots) that are about to lose their job -again!- before Christmas; thanks to Air Canada (my own conclusion). Our domestic flights were more than 75% full...how can AT justify the removal of the domestic flying if it’s not an AC’s request? (No need to thank us for the extra job for your group, merry Christmas)

It doesn’t please me that there might be more furloughs.

But Rudder is correct. Corporate is making pragmatic decisions. Competing with yourself makes no sense. When your losing 550M a month combined? They have no choice.

Still it sucks. My condolences. The same as to the AC furloughs.

Has there been an announcement on this?

[FL-280]

I'll buy beers and steaks if jetpilot and FL280 want to have a rumble... we can make it a team building event, maybe even make it interesting winner takes an extra seniority bump for their side..

Very interesting for the seniority bump!:p haha

But, I am sorry, I can't... Jet is so old I would go to jail for defending myself against a senior citizen or something:P Even though he was hired in 2007, he is old enough to have a senior card.

Plus, violence won't get us through this... when this will be over, we will all have to move on. Myself included, no matter the outcome.

[Fanblade]

I know it will please some of you here but my thoughts are for our colleagues (pilots) that are about to lose their job -again!- before Christmas; thanks to Air Canada (my own conclusion). Our domestic flights were more than 75% full...how can AT justify the removal of the domestic flying if it’s not an AC’s request? (No need to thank us for the extra job for your group, merry Christmas)

It doesn’t please me that there might be more furloughs.

But Rudder is correct. Corporate is making pragmatic decisions. Competing with yourself makes no sense. When your losing 550M a month combined? They have no choice.

Still it sucks. My condolences. The same as to the AC furloughs.

Has there been an announcement on this?

Not that I am aware of. I assume it is internal at the moment. Transat FA’s were in the news yesturday seeking government support to stop more furloughs.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/n ... 36991.html

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/t ... 62.article

”With the Canadian borders remaining closed more hermetically than most countries and a quarantine imposed to those coming back to Canada, while no sectoral help has been put in place for airlines, the prospects are unfortunately not improving in the near future, so we have to furlough some of the employees that we had called back for our restart in July,” the airline says.

Remember November is shoulder season. Transat is blaming Canada’s quarantine rules and no sector support. They aren’t blaming AC, but that doesn’t mean AC wasn’t part of the decision. Sucks either way.

It may be part of the overall push by the aviation sector to get sector support. Notice Westjet and the Atlantic cancellations. Now Transat. Right after JT opened the door to possible support for regional air service in the Throne speech.

We will see if either of these reductions actually happen. Me thinks JT’s feet might be getting a little closer to the fire. He loves those socks you know.

[rudder]

I know it will please some of you here but my thoughts are for our colleagues (pilots) that are about to lose their job -again!- before Christmas; thanks to Air Canada (my own conclusion). Our domestic flights were more than 75% full...how can AT justify the removal of the domestic flying if it’s not an AC’s request? (No need to thank us for the extra job for your group, merry Christmas)

It doesn’t please me that there might be more furloughs.

But Rudder is correct. Corporate is making pragmatic decisions. Competing with yourself makes no sense. When your losing 550M a month combined? They have no choice.

Still it sucks. My condolences. The same as to the AC furloughs.

Notwithstanding the TRZ transaction, AC is in survival mode. In point of fact, the modified TRZ acquisition agreement may form part of that survival strategy.

Is AC going to disappear? No. But a second trip to CCAA will invariably wipe out the current AC shareholders. The AC BOD represents the shareholders. Not the employees. Not the passengers. Not the industry. And the AC senior Executive team is accountable to the AC BOD.

For those that have paid attention to history, CR never loses. He on occasion has been unsuccessful in the instant, but he waits. And he remembers. And when he has leverage ..... he acts.

I have no doubt that CR initiated the TRZ discussion for valid strategic reasons. He reached a deal. And then he was forced to increase the price to maintain the deal. Fair enough. Booming economy. Unlimited opportunity to expand capacity. Then COVID. Then the opportunity to exit the deal. Or to improve the terms.

Checkmate. Exit stage right. All future decisions based on the objective of avoiding CCAA.

The upside to this deal if consummated is everybody will still be able to say “I was hired in 1986” or whatever the applicable date. That sounds better than “I used to work at ........”

[Co-Joe Exotic]

Keep in mind we had CEWS for something like 2 months. After that it’s been CERB, and now EI for us 600.

I just submitted my first of what will become many bi-weekly EI reports. I work 3 1/2 jobs to try and keep up. Everything I make is subtracted 50 cents on the dollar from my EI benefit.

CEWS would have been a huge life line for us. Working while collecting CEWS would have played a big difference in terms of take home pay. Never mind the fact we aren’t accruing YOS, Vacation, pension*, benefits etc.

I’m lucky to be in a position where my family situation allows me to work though. Other aren’t.

I guess what I’m saying is, as if being furloughed isn’t difficult enough to swallow, being furloughed while there’s a program being utilized by our peers to prevent furlough, makes it sting that much more.

As for the potential List integration.... Someone way smarter than me will figure it out. I’m just along for ride.

* We’ve been offered pension buy backs. So that’s a small win.

[tsgas]

My Dream as a 16+ yrs plus at AT is to fly with FL280 we all know is real name and it was send to both union one day i make a promiss to you me and you we will have a real men talk !

And yes you are a peace of shit!

ps: anytime anywhere .....

jet

Maybe it would create an event similar to the Jan 1,2018 incident on India Jet Airways , where the SO gives the Cpt , a smack in the face. Keep in mind , both pilots lost their jobs , because of this display of raw emotions.

[Dry Guy]

This is getting ugly.

[Latitude]

Wow...

I hope FL280 is the guy I think of... junior AC guy on A320 hired in 2019, ex DH8 captain at Jazz... there's only one that I know of that is this delusional, provocative and immature. No one is going BOTL

--------------------

This forum is worse than reading comments on media page on Facebook ... yet we're all pilots and in this together

[Latitude]

Oh well, you’ll be disappointed I guess.

Air Transat new hires typically much younger than AC. Pretty easy to get hired at Air Transat at 24 years old with no 705 CA time and in many cases no 705 time. Try that at AC... it happens from time to time but is an anomaly at Air Transat it's a trend..... there absolutely should be considerations with how much longer it takes to get to Air Canada vs Air Transat as a pilot.

Uh ? What does that even mean ? ''pretty easy to get hired at Transat, 24 years old with no 705 time'' ??? How many of them are they ? 5 pilots ? Most hired were flying DH8 or jets for years before TS, and a LOT of them are 30years old+

In the end, doesnt matter as both AC and TS pilots are doing the exact same job. How long it took you to get hired is irrelevant.

[jetpilot]

I'll buy beers and steaks if jetpilot and FL280 want to have a rumble... we can make it a team building event, maybe even make it interesting winner takes an extra seniority bump for their side..

Very interesting for the seniority bump!:p haha

But, I am sorry, I can't... Jet is so old I would go to jail for defending myself against a senior citizen or something:P Even though he was hired in 2007, he is old enough to have a senior card.

Plus, violence won't get us through this... when this will be over, we will all have to move on. Myself included, no matter the outcome.

You so funny i was hired at 30 yrs old you keep insulting me? Be a man.....

[JoeyBarton]

Oh well, you’ll be disappointed I guess.

Air Transat new hires typically much younger than AC. Pretty easy to get hired at Air Transat at 24 years old with no 705 CA time and in many cases no 705 time. Try that at AC... it happens from time to time but is an anomaly at Air Transat it's a trend..... there absolutely should be considerations with how much longer it takes to get to Air Canada vs Air Transat as a pilot.

Uh ? What does that even mean ? ''pretty easy to get hired at Transat, 24 years old with no 705 time'' ??? How many of them are they ? 5 pilots ? Most hired were flying DH8 or jets for years before TS, and a LOT of them are 30years old+

In the end, doesnt matter as both AC and TS pilots are doing the exact same job. How long it took you to get hired is irrelevant.

Funny how only the Transat guys think they are not hired with less experience and make as much money over their entire career than at AC. It is not irrelevant when the 4500 ac pilots will keep on mentionning that.
Here's another one: ask anybody at Westjet or Sunwing who they feel which side won the lottery. 100% will say Transat. Facts. Also nobody leaves ac for ts. So Clearly one side is gaining a little more than the other in this one.
Sums up what everybody in the entire industry thinks of this deal and that's fine. But at least acknowledge it.

[Latitude]

Air Transat new hires typically much younger than AC. Pretty easy to get hired at Air Transat at 24 years old with no 705 CA time and in many cases no 705 time. Try that at AC... it happens from time to time but is an anomaly at Air Transat it's a trend..... there absolutely should be considerations with how much longer it takes to get to Air Canada vs Air Transat as a pilot.

Uh ? What does that even mean ? ''pretty easy to get hired at Transat, 24 years old with no 705 time'' ??? How many of them are they ? 5 pilots ? Most hired were flying DH8 or jets for years before TS, and a LOT of them are 30years old+

In the end, doesnt matter as both AC and TS pilots are doing the exact same job. How long it took you to get hired is irrelevant.

Funny how only the Transat guys think they are not hired with less experience and make as much money over their entire career than at AC. It is not irrelevant when the 4500 ac pilots will keep on mentionning that.
Here's another one: ask anybody at Westjet or Sunwing who they feel which side won the lottery. 100% will say Transat. Facts. Also nobody leaves ac for ts. So Clearly one side is gaining a little more than the other in this one.
Sums up what everybody in the entire industry thinks of this deal and that's fine. But at least acknowledge it.

Dont put words in my mouth.

I never said we make as much money over our entire career. But you know what ? I got hired straight on an A330, flying 50hrs a month and had amazing 3-4 days layovers in Greece, Spain, etc. I couldnt care less if i made 30K more a year at top pay scale, flying 80hrs a month at AC.

I commented on babaganoush post, which is wrong. ''Pretty easy to get hired at Transat at 24 years old with no 705 time '' Please. Dont be silly. Most hired are from Inuit, Creebec, Jazz, Sky Reg, Encore and Porter.

Now, YES I think the deal is good news for us because of COVID, before that ? Depends what you were looking for. I know for sure tons of TS guys were not looking to jump ship to AC and I am one of them. Some others made the move and it's fine as well.

Either way, I think it would be a great thing if you would stop looking at others like you're better than them, because you're not. That's the kind of attitude that I see a lot from your side that I hate and ''ask anybody at Westjet or Sunwing'' (to use your words) and they'll probably say the same

[altiplano]

I don't see an attitude that thinks they're better, I see an attitude that doesn't acknowledge a reasonably good deal for them at the cost of the other guys.

It's not our deal, but it only has a negative affect on one group... just is what it is... I don't have to like it though.