Ex-CAI pilots plan boycott

[balls]

Balls

Excellent post it just burns my ass the contempt that some of these ex-CDN folks have shown towards AC. It gives new meaning to the saying “Never bit the hand that feeds you” These scum bags have to be fired, oh and YVR should be reduced to a domestic only base. Hey AC has done that before; that'll help break up that cosy little cess pool..

Thanks for comment, esp. after some of the previous ones that didn't appreciate my input!

I get very frustrated by the lack of recognition of the past history of AC relative to CDN and Jazz, and the CALPA, ACPA situation too. Everyone is springloaded to go off on AC and ACPA. There are more sides to most of these issues, and it's disappointing to see such unwillingness to consider information. It seems that the uninformed opinionated masses rule the roost in many areas of controversy these days.

Next, on your post there...whoa-up though on closing YVR!!!!! And...Scum bags? GEEEz...Well, that's kind of not on, and probably a couple of Jack 'n Coke's talking on your part maybe??

I have lots of information of the history of both companies, that seems to be glossed over, denied or totally overlooked. The history has become very distorted by people wanting to maniipulate that for personal reasons. If one did not live that experience, it is unlikely that you can really comprehend entirely.

[balls]

Excellent post Balls.

It amazes me how people have short memories and have never worked for either airline but figure they know all.

Txs.

[Viking]

Just trying to figure out why U AC guys are taking the stance you are. I lived through the whole merger thing also, and am interseted in an unbiased story. My previous posts were more in the form of questions and educated opinion than hard fact. I have read most articles, books etc. published on this subject, yet still many questions remain.

[balls]

Just trying to figure out why U AC guys are taking the stance you are. I lived through the whole merger thing also, and am interseted in an unbiased story. My previous posts were more in the form of questions and educated opinion than hard fact. I have read most articles, books etc. published on this subject, yet still many questions remain.

Great. No offense meant 2 U. I was referring to RussD's enlightened addition to commentary. I'll give you my take on the run-down if you have an hour or two........

[RussD]

CAIL was in bankruptcy. The were in CCAA with no hope. That was clear, as Konrad Von Finkenstein stated to allow the merger to go through despite his competition concerns, and creating a majorly dominant carrier.

In CCAA AC employees took a major kick in the gonads. The CAIL people did not in their bankruptcy. In fact, wages improved dramatically for most employees, including the pilots.

If there was to be a rationalization as one would expect in CCAA, that should have happened prior to the CAIL employees coming to AC, then merging into the AC list as the dowsized company. Literally, domestically, there was only one route that AC was not operating at the time - Whitehorse.


Much of the international equipment was mothballed from CAIL. Internationally they brought a few routes.

Coming to AC to improve working conditions without any cuts, and improve relative seniority isn't right. The CIRB said so in their Decision that killed Mitchnick, handed down by Lordon. All that is being asked right now is that the Keller finding be reviewed under that decision. What is the problem with that?

The ad in the G&M was nasty. So what, $55,000 for that page was probably subsidized by ACPA, because ACPA has lent money, a couple of years back, to the ALPA committee to carry on their fight against the AC pilots. How likely is it that money will be repaid with legal fees and $55G adverts?

I stand by what I said Balls,,, You're an idiot. Your own research has confirmed the innaccuracy of your initial position.. Canadian was never
"in bankruptcy" . AC ran them thru a CCAA event after their aquistion to unload debt. CCAA is not " in bankruptcy". You should know that after spending a couple of years of your existance there yourself.

[Rebel]

Balls

I stand by my post as that’s exactly how I feel. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I’m from AB and PWA was my stepping stone into AC so I speak with personal knowledge.

Enough of this bull sh*t get on board and be part of the team or get out. Sounds pretty simple to me..Oh just to be perfectly clear; "reduce" and make YVR a domestic only operation as the precedence has already been established. It's time management got some balls and cut out the cancer..

RussD

Quit playing with the semantics of the English language. For all intents and purposes CDN was bankrupt so just call a spade a spade as that was the reality of the demise of a once proud company. No one event or person caused this to happen but a combination of events including the politics’, culture of both companies and government interference with a changed business model did.

Just so the WJ folks don’t feel left out they delivered the final blow but if it hadn’t being them it would have been some other LCC start-up. The aviation business model had changed but not for the better..

[balls]

I stand by what I said Balls,,, You're an idiot. Your own research has confirmed the innaccuracy of your initial position.. Canadian was never
"in bankruptcy" . AC ran them thru a CCAA event after their aquistion to unload debt. CCAA is not " in bankruptcy". You should know that after spending a couple of years of your existance there yourself.

Nice!

There are two ways to proceed under bankruptcy in an attempt to reorganize: CCAA or the Bankruptcy Insolvency Act. CCAA is only available to corporations worth more than $5M. You are incorrect.

The prevailing wisdom of 1999 was that Canadian would not survive a bankruptcy proceeding in any case. The company was effectively bankrupt to a point of requiring immediate liquidation like other airlines - Royal, Jetsgo, C3, etc. AC had to step up with massive support to keep Canadian afloat across Christmas of 1999. In 2000, as a numbered company Canadian almost went under a number of times anyway. You are denying reality of the situation for some reason.

[WF9F]

The CAI guys here still have not answered my question.Where did EPA,NordAir,WardAir end up when they were bought /merged?

[land3]

Bueller?.....Bueller?....anyone out there?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the EPA and Wardair boys ended up getting violated without the comfort of K-Y Jelly.

Ironically, Nordair bush pilots ended up seeing their wet dreams turn to reality.

[Lost in Saigon]

I am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong....

I think Wardair was Date of Hire with fences and the others were Length of Service and/or ratios.

NONE were bottom of the list.

[balls]

I am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong....

I think Wardair was Date of Hire with fences and the others were Length of Service and/or ratios.

NONE were bottom of the list.

In January 2000, the top Wardair people on the CDN list were #169, 170, 176.

The next number from Wardair was #530.

As an example, #530 Davies hired at Wardair in August 1974 with 0 furlough days was below the nearest CP #527 Holdack hired in October 1974 with 767 days on furlough, effectively November 1976 or YOS more than two years shorter service, and not DOH either, since it is obvious that August hiring is before an October hiring.

There may have been fences. I don't know.

I have the whole list and the original sources, plus EABs going back some time, however it is obvious that DOH has not been used prior to at least PWA.