Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
As I've stated on several threads - I rate travelling commercially as the most hazardous thing I do.
Maybe it is the most hazardous thing you do. Just like driving to work is probably the most hazardous thing I have done on a regular basis. But I wear a seatbelt and mitigate the risk right?Eric Janson wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:10 pmAs I've stated on several threads - I rate travelling commercially as the most hazardous thing I do.
I cannot control my exposure to others at an airport. Social distancing is ignored at boarding and de-planing.
Most flights I've been on are full - no seats blocked.
Plenty of cases of COVID positive people travelling.
I’m not surprised you think everyone is following protocols montano, you think everyone is wearing masks.montado wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:57 am "So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus."
Rockie I'm going to need a source for this. From what I see, just about everyone has made significant changes their lifestyles yet it doesn't appear to have had much impact on cases and deaths. Its hard to know, because the experts don't really tell us what it would look like had we taken no action.
Furthermore, some of these changes have had huge impacts aside from the impact of the virus itself. Some have had their careers destroyed, lost the health benefits they would have had covered through work... They may be unable to now afford prescription glasses or a root canal. People have died for one reason, and that is the governments handling of the pandemic. It has zero to do with individuals actions. You can't take a pandemic and dump the responsibility on the individual.
You have a very narrow mind Rockie. Most people are following the experts, even if they don't like it. To say people have not been willing to change lifestyle is absolutely ridiculous, and just sounds like you excusing politicians for their @#$! up's.
Better impulse control would allow you to just not read my posts, then you wouldn’t need artificial help with that.
The measures currently in place are far more likely to give grandma cancer. Simply because so many routine check-ups and screenings have either been postponed for months by the doctors or by patients themselves because the fear-mongering has them terrified of entering any health care facility.
Add this link to that.RRJetPilot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:17 pm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-q ... 4b-eng.htm
I like data and facts. Based on the two charts from statistics Canada I can see the pandemic and excess deaths ended in June. But interestingly enough we do still have a portion of the population with excess death, Males 0-44 yrs old.
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From mid-May to mid-October, an estimated 7,172 deaths were reported among Canadians aged 0 to 44, an excess of 1,385 deaths. Males accounted for 81% of these excess deaths.
From March until the end of October, there were fewer than 50 deaths attributed to COVID-19 among Canadians under the age of 45. However, beyond COVID-19 itself, increases in mortality could also be due to indirect consequences related to measures put in place to address the pandemic, such as missed or delayed medical interventions and other possible changes in behaviour such as increased substance use.
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Oh the calling someone dense argument always a good start...
I haven't specifically checked, but I'm certain skipping routine check-ups does not cause cancer.fliter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:07 pm The measures currently in place are far more likely to give grandma cancer. Simply because so many routine check-ups and screenings have either been postponed for months by the doctors or by patients themselves because the fear-mongering has them terrified of entering any health care facility.
montado wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:57 am "So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus."
Rockie I'm going to need a source for this. From what I see, just about everyone has made significant changes their lifestyles yet it doesn't appear to have had much impact on cases and deaths. Its hard to know, because the experts don't really tell us what it would look like had we taken no action.
Furthermore, some of these changes have had huge impacts aside from the impact of the virus itself. Some have had their careers destroyed, lost the health benefits they would have had covered through work... They may be unable to now afford prescription glasses or a root canal. People have died for one reason, and that is the governments handling of the pandemic. It has zero to do with individuals actions. You can't take a pandemic and dump the responsibility on the individual.
You have a very narrow mind Rockie. Most people are following the experts, even if they don't like it. To say people have not been willing to change lifestyle is absolutely ridiculous, and just sounds like you excusing politicians for their @#$! up's.
Stupid people once again. Where are the vast majority of covid cases happening? At social gatherings where people take off their masks. So our experts recommend keeping businesses closed(and bankrupting so many of them) when many of them could have stayed open with all people dutifully keeping their masks on and very few transmissions(as we see every time we shop).mbav8r wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:35 am 355 positive cases result in 1900 contacts, what multiple would you use to get the real percentage of people who ignore public health orders and perpetuate the situation we’re in?montado wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:57 am "So plenty of people have died because people were unwilling to make changes to their lifestyle and have therefore contracted and passed on the virus."
Rockie I'm going to need a source for this. From what I see, just about everyone has made significant changes their lifestyles yet it doesn't appear to have had much impact on cases and deaths. Its hard to know, because the experts don't really tell us what it would look like had we taken no action.
Furthermore, some of these changes have had huge impacts aside from the impact of the virus itself. Some have had their careers destroyed, lost the health benefits they would have had covered through work... They may be unable to now afford prescription glasses or a root canal. People have died for one reason, and that is the governments handling of the pandemic. It has zero to do with individuals actions. You can't take a pandemic and dump the responsibility on the individual.
You have a very narrow mind Rockie. Most people are following the experts, even if they don't like it. To say people have not been willing to change lifestyle is absolutely ridiculous, and just sounds like you excusing politicians for their @#$! up's.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.5866120
“Manitoba's strict lockdown is extended for another two weeks as contact tracers uncover hundreds of COVID-19 cases linked to holiday gatherings.
More than 355 COVID-19 cases and nearly 1,900 contacts have been linked to gatherings during the winter holiday period, Chief Provincial Public Health Officer Dr. Brent Roussin said Friday, as he announced the extension.”
"Our numbers were going in the right direction, but now we're at risk of reversing that, so we've got to keep focusing on those fundamentals."
Or you know, test upon arrival. Quarantine for 48 hours and test again, then carry on as has been happening in Alberta for months now successfully. But you keep going on thinking that the 14 day quarantine is saving lives pelmet.pelmet wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:47 pm
As for the airlines, the problem is not the air travel, it is the social aspect of the travel between the departure and return flight, at least for tourists. They should forcibly quarantine every one of those returning travelers for two weeks at their expense at a secure facility like Australia and NZ do.
I am not sure of the details of Alberta's success. I have read a lot about their high covid rate. Bottom line is a lot of people are not quarantining(including someone I know). I believe Australia and NZ have a successful method. It may be less than 14 days but their economy is not shut down, instead, a bunch of people get pissed off at being inconvenienced. Seems like a reasonable trade-off.Dash.Trash wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:57 pmOr you know, test upon arrival. Quarantine for 48 hours and test again, then carry on as has been happening in Alberta for months now successfully. But you keep going on thinking that the 14 day quarantine is saving lives pelmet.pelmet wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:47 pm
As for the airlines, the problem is not the air travel, it is the social aspect of the travel between the departure and return flight, at least for tourists. They should forcibly quarantine every one of those returning travelers for two weeks at their expense at a secure facility like Australia and NZ do.
Considering the billions of dollars being lost each month in our economy/government in tax loss and subsidies of laid off workers/closed business/etc with the new lockdown, one would think that the 'experts', might taken about ten seconds to come up with an idea on how to prevent an obvious transmission vector........truckers driving across the border and going to restaurants and wherever else they go.fish4life wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:11 am Countries like Australia and New Zealand are islands which make it easier to isolate as well. We live in a country that requires hundreds of thousands of border crossings a month with the USA in order for us to survive/ eat / have any economy. We can close our border to international travellers but the essential worker crossing the border numbers are still huge in Canada compared to pretty much any other country.
The problem is you took ten seconds to think about it yourself without any knowledge of the industry.pelmet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:55 amConsidering the billions of dollars being lost each month in our economy/government in tax loss and subsidies of laid off workers/closed business/etc with the new lockdown, one would think that the 'experts', might taken about ten seconds to come up with an idea on how to prevent an obvious transmission vector........truckers driving across the border and going to restaurants and wherever else they go.fish4life wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:11 am Countries like Australia and New Zealand are islands which make it easier to isolate as well. We live in a country that requires hundreds of thousands of border crossings a month with the USA in order for us to survive/ eat / have any economy. We can close our border to international travellers but the essential worker crossing the border numbers are still huge in Canada compared to pretty much any other country.
It would have cost many millions(instead of many billions) to subsidize companies to follow new cross-border trucking procedures. The American trucker brings his 18 wheeler across the border to a large designated lot and stays in his cab while the load is detached. Then he drives straight back to the US. Another trucker from Canada, picks up the load and delivers it. Sad that people wouldn't even think of such a thing. And now, they close hundreds of thousands of businesses.
It was an obvious solution.
Like I said, it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars which could have been partially subsidized....which is better than tens of billions of dollars of shutdown cost. Regulation changes for trailer registration could have been passed as a temporary emergency measure. And who cares about drivers unhappy about their pay. Trudeau probably would have announced some new program for them anyways. But....instead, we are in lockdown.mbav8r wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:44 pmThe problem is you took ten seconds to think about it yourself without any knowledge of the industry.pelmet wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:55 amConsidering the billions of dollars being lost each month in our economy/government in tax loss and subsidies of laid off workers/closed business/etc with the new lockdown, one would think that the 'experts', might taken about ten seconds to come up with an idea on how to prevent an obvious transmission vector........truckers driving across the border and going to restaurants and wherever else they go.fish4life wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:11 am Countries like Australia and New Zealand are islands which make it easier to isolate as well. We live in a country that requires hundreds of thousands of border crossings a month with the USA in order for us to survive/ eat / have any economy. We can close our border to international travellers but the essential worker crossing the border numbers are still huge in Canada compared to pretty much any other country.
It would have cost many millions(instead of many billions) to subsidize companies to follow new cross-border trucking procedures. The American trucker brings his 18 wheeler across the border to a large designated lot and stays in his cab while the load is detached. Then he drives straight back to the US. Another trucker from Canada, picks up the load and delivers it. Sad that people wouldn't even think of such a thing. And now, they close hundreds of thousands of businesses.
It was an obvious solution.
It called cross docking, this is how the Mexican border works, Mexican driver delivers to the border and the load is unloaded then reloaded on another trailer, either Canadian or American and then a Canadian will haul the Canadian registered trailer and the American likewise.
A Canadian driver can’t just pull an American registered trailer and vice versa, so you would need a massive cross docking facility at every border crossing to accomplish this.
Now could a driver from the same company meet the driver at the border and switch trailers, sure but still a huge logistical nightmare, not to mention drivers are paid mileage so someone is going to be unhappy with their pay. There’s a reason some drivers prefer to just go east west, a lot of time is wasted at the border, not moving, not making mileage. Also, depending on how long the driver has been on the road, usually crossing the border means going home for a few days to reset their duty time, they have rules just like pilots for duty and days off.
Once again, the same old misleading excuses to do nothing. Do you really think that truckdrivers on the road for days at a time only come in contact with people when buying cheeseburgers at Burger King(I suppose via the drive-thru in your opinion).'97 Tercel wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:39 pm I'm pretty sure truckers crossing the border then picking up a cheeseburger at some diner isn't spreading Covid...it's the 60 -person backyard parties that people are having in Brampton and Surrey.
Are you trying to be sarcastic? Obviously it doesn't cause cancer. But routine screening programs exist because they can catch cancer and other life-threatening diseases in early stages. With them being postponed for lengthy periods of time, lots of cancers will now be missed and only discovered in much later stages with much more grim prognosis.
First of all, it's not entirely true. Many hospitals were ghost towns for large periods of time since March because so much routine/scheduled stuff got cancelled and because fearmongering left many people scared to go to the hospital. Secondly, it's been nearly a year, and we're still in the same spot. Why can China build a hospital in ten days but we can't build one in ten months? Sure, you can't train up a bunch of physicians in a year, but you can train up a bunch of mid-level medical personnel who are able to do a few COVID-specific tasks like intubation with MD supervision. You can expedite license conversion for foreign-trained physicians. You can call on the military doctors, nurses and medics to fill in. You can build more hospitals - temporary or even permanent because, hey, we will need them with our rising life expectancy! This is an emergency on a scale of a war, so a war-like effort with maximum resources and maximum dedication to achieve maximum efficiency is what's warranted. Instead, we have Justin and Dougy sitting on their butts musing "Oh, what should we close next? Let me throw a dart..." while NOTHING in the healthcare infrastructure gets improved and there is NO plan for going forward other than "let's do two more weeks and two more weeks and two more weeks and two more weeks and eventually maybe we can get everyone vaccinated by the end of the decade." We are in a state of emergency with a government that is doing the usual bureaucratic bullshit where the main objective is to cover your ass and drag everything out for as long as possible and then roll-out some crappy half-measures as inefficiently as possible. They are really efficient at failing and ruining the economy, though, and our sector in particular, I'll give them that!All of the things you validly point out are being delayed, are delayed because the hospitals are maxed out keeping Covid patients alive.
You don’t remember writing this? I understand your frustration, but it would be better directed at people who refuse to follow recommendations. It’ll be a lot more useful than railing against the government about things you only think you know about but don’t.
fliter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:07 pm
The measures currently in place are far more likely to give grandma cancer. Simply because so many routine check-ups and screenings have either been postponed for months by the doctors or by patients themselves because the fear-mongering has them terrified of entering any health care facility.
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