Flight Instructor Rating

[Found]

I am thinking of tackling the Flight Instructor Rating. How long does it usually take to complete? How hard is it compared to the Instrument Rating or CPL? What did it cost? How hard is the written and practical exam? If you could add anything else that would help it would be appreciated.

[robshelle]

It will be the hardest rating you will get. There is a lot of working in prepping lesson plans, and then revising them, and then practicing teaching them to a mirror, and then finally to your Class 1 instructor. It is also very intimidating as you realize that you don't know as much as you thought that you know. The plus side is that it will make you a much better and more conscientious pilot, and honestly the work is very rewarding (not necessarily financially rewarding, but emotionally as you see students come back from first solo's for example).

I took 3 months to do mine while I was in Flight College, and it cost around 7000$, about 35 hours flight time plus lots of ground time, but that was in the mid 90's. The exams aren't really that hard as you should be really prepared for them by the time you've done all the lesson plans.

Robbie Benusic

[Tuza]

I'm doing mine now but have been put on hold because TC is not doing any Instructor flight exams.

So...just a word to the wise. But everything you can easily do.

Def a good option and as robshelle said, about 9ish k (I'm in Alberta) and def humbling! And I'm only through the ground portion due to no point in flying because of .... lol

So good luck!

[Aviatard]

I'm doing mine now but have been put on hold because TC is not doing any Instructor flight exams.

In Ontario at least, independent Pilot Examiners are conducting flight tests for instructor ratings. I don't know about the rest of the country. It's business as usual here except for the long wait times for written exams at Transport. However, there is an exemption that allows the flight test to proceed without first having completed the written exam. You just can't get the rating signed off until the written exam is completed.

[Bede]

Robshelle is pretty much right. You can complete it in the minimum hours but will likely take a lot more ground time. There is also a lot of prep work for lesson plans. You can get some from other but will likely find that they don’t work for you and will make your own.

The big thing that I have found is your flying skills. As a CPL you can likely fly well because all of your attention is on flying. As an instructor though, the flying has to be second nature and your attention is now directed to instructing. Your flying skills for the first half of the instructor rating will likely be below the PPL level. It returns quickly though as you get more used to instructing and flying at the same time. By the time you have your recommend you’ll hopefully be back where you were at your CPL flight test.

[photofly]

What are you going to do after you get the rating? As a Class IV instructor, you're pretty much useless: you can't do anything on your own, you have to be supervised by and work for a Flight Training Unit. Is that your plan? You don't have to discuss it here, but you should know what it is.

[Tuza]

Also, as already posted and I should have mentioned this yesterday, there is an enormous amount of lesson planning prep! I started mine before May which was when I was supposed to start. Then it got pushed to June, then July, and here we are.

I had lessons with a different Class 1 late last yr but had to stop because of personal reasons.

I have 2 3" binders full of lesson plans including a 3rd with the guides. I am doing the Sharper Edge Instructor exam prep book and I have 3 kids whom I'm also now online homeschooling. So.... it's busy and there is still lots to do, but as for @Aviatard - I didn't know there were independent examiners - mine is a Class 1 and also examiner but he said TC is closed for just Instructor Flight exams so super interesting that that is not a Canada wide thing. I do know they are taking written examers and that's only just recent.

Too bad as I'm from Ontario originally! Haha

Anyway @Found - just prep and go for it and you will know in the first 2 weeks if this is for you or not. I mean I have no idea, neither does anyone else here but it IS a tremendous amt of work!

Having said that, I'm pretty sure that's why most pilots stay pilots. But who knows. Haha. Maybe it's just the moola.

Cheers!

[Tuza]

What are you going to do after you get the rating? As a Class IV instructor, you're pretty much useless: you can't do anything on your own, you have to be supervised by and work for a Flight Training Unit. Is that your plan? You don't have to discuss it here, but you should know what it is.

And last thing @found - you're not useless. At least in Alberta and Ontario - as aviatard said - there is plenty of work. Although obviously Covid has put a dent in that.

Cheers

[praveen4143]

I'm doing mine now but have been put on hold because TC is not doing any Instructor flight exams.

I would suggest you contact the nearest TC inspector about this. I can think of a few examiners who can do initial instructor rating flight tests. Harv Penner at Harv's Air in MB, Lenora Crane at the Club here at Springbank among others who can do all the way up to Class 1 flight tests.

TC used to have a splendid page on their website where you could search for Pilot Examiners based on what tests they could do. Too bad it got taken down in the midst of the move to Canada.ca and the CARs moving to Justice.gc.ca

[Tuza]

I'm doing mine now but have been put on hold because TC is not doing any Instructor flight exams.

I would suggest you contact the nearest TC inspector about this. I can think of a few examiners who can do initial instructor rating flight tests. Harv Penner at Harv's Air in MB, Lenora Crane at the Club here at Springbank among others who can do all the way up to Class 1 flight tests.

TC used to have a splendid page on their website where you could search for Pilot Examiners based on what tests they could do. Too bad it got taken down in the midst of the move to Canada.ca and the CARs moving to Justice.gc.ca

So I just checked and you're right Lenora (whom I actually know from my CYXH days) is doing them! My bad. I had info from a few weeks ago so, I guess the tide is changing. I'm guessing just her though by the sounds of it. Besides Penner.

Anyway, I'll drop out now.

[Shinyjetsyndrome]

Is there even really a point in doing an FI rating right now? I haven’t seen an instructor posting in ages and there’s tons of laid off airline pilots who are returning to instructing, including where I trained. I’m getting the impression that I’d be wasting 10k if I did it, but maybe the schools just don’t post ads and simply hire their students. I’d be curious to hear the thoughts of other instructors on the hiring prospects.

[Aviatard]

Schools typically hire their students.

[pul106]

Are there any flight schools that could possibly need a class 4, with so many previous students/FIs returning ?

[Tuza]

I'm doing mine now but have been put on hold because TC is not doing any Instructor flight exams.

In Ontario at least, independent Pilot Examiners are conducting flight tests for instructor ratings. I don't know about the rest of the country. It's business as usual here except for the long wait times for written exams at Transport. However, there is an exemption that allows the flight test to proceed without first having completed the written exam. You just can't get the rating signed off until the written exam is completed.

Hey super delayed response but I just found, ironically enough, through my GS that Examiners have to be TC approved. Here's the CARs ref:

Conduct of a Flight Test

401.15 No person shall conduct a flight test required for the issuance or renewal of a flight crew permit or licence or for the endorsement of a flight crew permit or licence with a rating unless

(a) the person

(i) is designated by the Minister to conduct the flight test, and

(ii) meets the requirements of section 425.21 of Standard 425 — Flight Training; and

(b) the flight test is conducted in accordance with

(i) Subpart 8, in the case of an aeroplane or helicopter, or

(ii) the personnel licensing standards, in any other case.

SOR/2001-49, s. 9 SOR/2005-319, s. 2 SOR/2011-284, s. 4SOR/2019-119, s. 47

I know other posters have mentioned independent examiners but they must be approved by TC then or it's super illegal.

[flyingcanuck]

I think youre misunderstanding what he meant, just that it doesnt need to be an official TX guy but a class 1 who is approved from TC. Which are all over the place in ontario

[Tuza]

I think youre misunderstanding what he meant, just that it doesnt need to be an official TX guy but a class 1 who is approved from TC. Which are all over the place in ontario

Yes I did misunderstand! Thanks!

[Hawk009]

just that it doesnt need to be an official TX guy but a class 1 who is approved from TC. Which are all over the place in ontario

Do you personally know or have contacts for any in Ontario you could possibly share in PM?
I’m trying to find someone to do my FI flight test and the ones I reached out to said they’re not going to be doing it for a while.

[flyingcanuck]

just that it doesnt need to be an official TX guy but a class 1 who is approved from TC. Which are all over the place in ontario

Do you personally know or have contacts for any in Ontario you could possibly share in PM?
I’m trying to find someone to do my FI flight test and the ones I reached out to said they’re not going to be doing it for a while.

Try calling Cornwall, I believe they have 2 Class 1's right now. They'll get you in and out pretty quick if you know your stuff. The guy who did mine years ago is at Spectrum Airways in Burlington, maybe call them if you havent. There is another guy at St. Catharines club but last I heard he was on leave dont know if hes back or not. Good luck!

[gtappl]

just that it doesnt need to be an official TX guy but a class 1 who is approved from TC. Which are all over the place in ontario

Do you personally know or have contacts for any in Ontario you could possibly share in PM?
I’m trying to find someone to do my FI flight test and the ones I reached out to said they’re not going to be doing it for a while.

Try calling Cornwall, I believe they have 2 Class 1's right now. They'll get you in and out pretty quick if you know your stuff. The guy who did mine years ago is at Spectrum Airways in Burlington, maybe call them if you havent. There is another guy at St. Catharines club but last I heard he was on leave dont know if hes back or not. Good luck!

spectrum is closed fyi

[flyingcanuck]

Do you personally know or have contacts for any in Ontario you could possibly share in PM?
I’m trying to find someone to do my FI flight test and the ones I reached out to said they’re not going to be doing it for a while.

Try calling Cornwall, I believe they have 2 Class 1's right now. They'll get you in and out pretty quick if you know your stuff. The guy who did mine years ago is at Spectrum Airways in Burlington, maybe call them if you havent. There is another guy at St. Catharines club but last I heard he was on leave dont know if hes back or not. Good luck!

spectrum is closed fyi

Ah, didnt know. Some are open others are not

[Aviatard]

just that it doesnt need to be an official TX guy but a class 1 who is approved from TC. Which are all over the place in ontario

Do you personally know or have contacts for any in Ontario you could possibly share in PM?
I’m trying to find someone to do my FI flight test and the ones I reached out to said they’re not going to be doing it for a while.

Try calling Cornwall, I believe they have 2 Class 1's right now. They'll get you in and out pretty quick if you know your stuff. The guy who did mine years ago is at Spectrum Airways in Burlington, maybe call them if you havent. There is another guy at St. Catharines club but last I heard he was on leave dont know if hes back or not. Good luck!

If I've understood the person correctly, I believe the poster was looking for a Pilot Examiner, not a Class 1 Instructor. There is still the problem of getting an airplane, unless the poster has one available.

[youhavecontrol]

What are you going to do after you get the rating? As a Class IV instructor, you're pretty much useless: you can't do anything on your own, you have to be supervised by and work for a Flight Training Unit. Is that your plan? You don't have to discuss it here, but you should know what it is.

Dude.. how long do you expect it takes to go beyond a class 4? You make it sound like he's stuck being useless and that nobody will want him. Sure it might be a challenge right now (with the ol' Rona kicking around), but if he lands a job, he's set. Getting the upgrade to Class 3 doesn't take long at all. You're definitely not useless, and it's not as if the company is under some burden of constantly supervising you. While I worked as an instructor, I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me, leaving me free to deal with other tasks. "You can't do anything on your own" is simply not true... it's ridiculous.

Landing the job may be a challenge, but flight schools won't despise a Class 4 if there's work to be done. I'd try one of the schools with international cadets, like Moncton Flight College, or Montair. They're always busy and probably the best place to look for a job.

[Kaykay]

What are you going to do after you get the rating? As a Class IV instructor, you're pretty much useless: you can't do anything on your own, you have to be supervised by and work for a Flight Training Unit. Is that your plan? You don't have to discuss it here, but you should know what it is.

Dude.. how long do you expect it takes to go beyond a class 4? You make it sound like he's stuck being useless and that nobody will want him. Sure it might be a challenge right now (with the ol' Rona kicking around), but if he lands a job, he's set. Getting the upgrade to Class 3 doesn't take long at all. You're definitely not useless, and it's not as if the company is under some burden of constantly supervising you. While I worked as an instructor, I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me, leaving me free to deal with other tasks. "You can't do anything on your own" is simply not true... it's ridiculous.

Landing the job may be a challenge, but flight schools won't despise a Class 4 if there's work to be done. I'd try one of the schools with international cadets, like Moncton Flight College, or Montair. They're always busy and probably the best place to look for a job.

I agree with youhavecontrol that a Class 4 is not useless. Don’t let anyone tell you that. If someone says that, that person was either a Class 4 once too and forgets that fact and how it felt to be one or wasn’t ever an instructor and is not someone who I’d recommend putting a lot of stake in what they say. Every instructor no matter how amazing they think they are was a Class 4 once. A couple clarifying points to add though:

The time it takes to progress beyond class 4 is dependant on the person and the situation. You are right, it may not take long but there are many people where it does. And from a regulatory perspective, yes the company is in fact under a burden of constant supervision. This is true for ALL instructors; even Class 1 instructors are supervised by their CFI. Also it is technically true they can’t do anything on their own; training they facilitate towards an RPP, PPL, or CPL requires daily supervision and sign off by a supervising instructor.

To the OP: as youhavecontrol said, get your rating and apply like crazy everywhere. You don’t know where you’ll get a job but get one and get to work and you’ll be fine. Get your qualification first though. Also, I’ve been hearing recently Montair is not busy right now so....old rules of thumb may not be applicable during this time sadly.

[photofly]

If you're a class IV instructor without a job, you are totally useless. I'm sorry if that hurts some people's feelings. Unless you have a plan to get a job, there's no point getting the rating.

I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me,

And we wonder why it takes students hundreds of hours to get a PPL. With an attitude like this from the CFI (wtf are "endless circuits"? and why is training a student in the circuit "grunt work"? Could you possibly be any more disrespectful to the students whose training you are supposed to be supervising?) the mystery is solved.

[youhavecontrol]

If you're a class IV instructor without a job, you are totally useless. I'm sorry if that hurts some people's feelings. Unless you have a plan to get a job, there's no point getting the rating.

I loved having Class 4's who would do the grunt work of endless circuits for me,

And we wonder why it takes students hundreds of hours to get a PPL. With an attitude like this from the CFI (wtf are "endless circuits"? and why is training a student in the circuit "grunt work"? Could you possibly be any more disrespectful to the students whose training you are supposed to be supervising?) the mystery is solved.

By that logic anyone without a job in their current field is totally useless. What point are you even making other than to discourage them?

Perhaps the hyperbole was lost on you when I said "endless circuits" ...as someone who has taught nearly a hundred licenses, circuit lessons started to bore the hell out of me. That's no disrespect to the student, but after a few years I found it far more rewarding to fly with a challenging student that a Class 4 needed help on, than a dozen average and improving students that gave me no new challenge and a class 4 could easily handle. You can still do a great job at something even when it bores you to tears... doesn't mean I disrespect the work that they do, but with experience you get to handle the more interesting lessons.

Don't give me that, "And we wonder why it takes students hundreds of hours..." sermon. It's ok to be bored at something after you've served your time doing it and would rather watch and help others do it for you. That's exactly what the perk of being a senior instructor is.