Is being a Commercial Pilot in Canada worth it?

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Did you hear the one about the masochist who so liked getting up early that he stayed in bed every day?

You have no idea

I hate mornings but love sunrises, and the silence that comes with the rising sun.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

I think flying can be an amazing career, especially if you get bored without a change of scenery but people seem to have a very dim view of other jobs

I cleaned petrochemical tanks for a few years. It was something different and a new challenge every day. The biggest challenge was a Petro Canada parking lot flooded with an inch of gasoline, or sucking out a potassium nitrate tank. Sometimes it was as simple as cleaning out a perfume tank and coming home reeking of other women, or cleaning an ink tank and coming home like a giant Bic pen. Something different every day.

If all you need is a regular change of scenery, aviation will do it, but it's not all that will do it.

[newlygrounded]

I think flying can be an amazing career, especially if you get bored without a change of scenery but people seem to have a very dim view of other jobs

I cleaned petrochemical tanks for a few years. It was something different and a new challenge every day. The biggest challenge was a Petro Canada parking lot flooded with an inch of gasoline, or sucking out a potassium nitrate tank. Sometimes it was as simple as cleaning out a perfume tank and coming home reeking of other women, or cleaning an ink tank and coming home like a giant Bic pen. Something different every day.

If all you need is a regular change of scenery, aviation will do it, but it's not all that will do it.

Please tell me you took some of that gas for safe keeping

[photofly]

I cleaned petrochemical tanks for a few years.

Now, I understand.

[DadoBlade]

Worth it? If you are single and prefer to remain single, perhaps. If you want to live away from your paternal family and your roots, maybe. If you are willing to uproot at a moments notice and live in a remote or semi-remote community, maybe. I know a main-line airline pilot who had to uproot his wife and family every three years until he had ten-years seniority, but they were all cities, not isolated Arctic villages and towns. Before flying 727s and DC-9's, he flew with Wardair Northern Ops, flying a Bristol Air Freighter from Hay River to Inuvik and every place in between. He always carried a sleeping bag, a bottle of water and a SONY transistor radio with ear-phones for the first 3 years of his career. . Worth it? He thinks so. I know a forest fire suppression pilot who has missed his children's birthdays and his wedding anniversary 5 years in a row. He went to Australia this year and missed having a family Christmas. Worth it? You tell me.. A bit off-topic but I know an Air Traffic guy who worked every statutory holiday seven years in a row. Was it worth it? He says he loves the nearly abandoned golf-courses when he golfs mid-day on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. Worth it? For him, yes it is.

[ayseven]

All excellent points. If u have lots of money already, I wouldn't hesitate. If not, you do what u gotta do.

[altiplano]

Most guys will spend a bunch of money on training and not get a CPL. Of those that do get licensed, most won't find a job. Of the ones that find a job, most won't maker it to The Show.

The pay and lifestyle to get there, on average isn't great. But the Airline lifestyle and pay is reasonably good if you get there.

This industry is in upheaval though. External factors like the pandemic and larger GOC policies and attitudes leave a lot of uncertainty moving forward. If you are at all on the fence, best to leave your dream behind because it will take all out commitment to achieve a marginal chance of success.

[ayseven]

As Beyond the Fringe said about the RAF during the Blitz: "Can I be one of the few?"
"No, there are too many"

[Old fella]

Well.... if you feel aviation is your “ lot in life” and have a burning desire to be a part of it then you will be successful in some shape or form. Remember “the rocky road to Dublin(aka aviation) one,two, three,four,five” will happen to you as it did rest of us who stuck it out. Opinions and experiences of us survivors is as varied as the number of aircraft and their associated series types. Listen to it but don’t dwell as much is just plain nostalgia. Like the glory and big money days of the Alberta oil patch , I believe the glory days of airline binge hiring that was ongoing prior to the pandemic shit show are done for now and perhaps into the future as well. Then again , this business of aviation is always cyclical and heading changes as to how things shake out continue.

Cheers and best of luck going forward.

[JeppsOnFire]

Kind of what a career in Canadian aviation looks like:

[cargocowboy]

I got my CPL in '17 and a job shortly after. A little over 3 years later, left seat on a twin turboprop, decent money and never been laid off. Never threw bags or flew in the north. Work 12 days a month at the most. Have no debt.

Worth it for me? Yes, but I realize I probably have a horseshoe up my arse and got lucky with timing and employers. I had a previous life where I made more money but also worked alot more with alot less satisfaction.

Worth it for some of my friends who have no secondary skills, kids, 80k in av college debt, no PIC time and no hope of a job because they went to the regionals as quick as possible?
Probably not.

Your personal circumstances will dictate "worth"

[Ash Ketchum]

No, its not worth it for most pilots from a financial perspective. It takes a long time to make good money in this career and even then its not guaranteed or stable. If you can't see yourself doing anything else as a career though then it will most likely be worth it for you.

[ayseven]

My so called aviation career spanned the flat line until 1990. Made me feel better, thanks for posting that.

[Launchpad1]

To quote Clint Eastwood it basically comes down to one thing... Are you feeling lucky?

If you are lucky and your timing works out and you're in the right place at the right time then yes it can be a good career.

The truth is though you have to be lucky a lot of the time otherwise you're looking at years of trying to make it and lots of associated costs in trying to do so. It's an expensive career to even get to the starting point.

So... are you feeling lucky?

[PitchLink]

Three words: TURN AND RUN. If you need to make money absolutely not. If you already have another career and income and just want to fly go for it. My 2c

[rudder]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

[PitchLink]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

“ Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years.” the cry of flight schools and ATO colleges alike since the 90s. 30 years later the same old story, and as for trades? HA! Make more than most retiring captains in the first 5 years with more time off and a reliable schedule to boot.

[Ash Ketchum]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

“ Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years.” the cry of flight schools and ATO colleges alike since the 90s. 30 years later the same old story, and as for trades? HA! Make more than most retiring captains in the first 5 years with more time off and a reliable schedule to boot.

Just curious, which trades would pay >200K without starting a business or working crazy overtime?

[PitchLink]

If you have a recent birth date, that and a combination of a seniority number will likely give you a valuable career in aviation. The time value of this combination always wins as age based attrition is an immutable force. There are however no guarantees that it will be a smooth path. Lots of current AC 787/777 CA were on layoff in the early 1990’s. Good thing they didn’t throw in the towel.

Where the disappointment seems to lie is that the college grad to left seat at a major in 5 years trajectory has been curtailed. That expectation was an anomaly and is ultimately unsustainable. I can recall when that type of progression was 15+ years. Once we get past the COVID induced aviation depression, the return to normal will fall somewhere between those two timeframes.

With less than a handful of years left in a long career, I will finish having earned multiple millions. That includes earnings during the 1980’s that were meagre by any standard. Did not break in to triple figures until the late 1990’s. If I had done med school and become a GP, I doubt that the career earnings total would have been any greater. A dentist? Much more. Lawyer? No thanks. Accounting? Boring. Trades? A lot less. I have friends that are cops making $150k+ per year (lots of overtime). No post-secondary education. An aviation career is the long game not the short game, particularly if your goal is the airlines which are 100% seniority based.

I would not bet against aviation, particularly if you were born year 1995 or later. Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years. If you have a green card or legal status to work in the US..... go! That flying career will be worth double the same career in Canada.

Having said all of that, starting pay in the industry is a joke (in Canada) considering the cost associated with basic commercial pilot qualification and education expense (if applicable).

“ Lots of boomers retiring over the next 8 years.” the cry of flight schools and ATO colleges alike since the 90s. 30 years later the same old story, and as for trades? HA! Make more than most retiring captains in the first 5 years with more time off and a reliable schedule to boot.

Just curious, which trades would pay >200K without starting a business or working crazy overtime?

That’s a loaded question, Several after 5 years make more than that! however throwing the caviat “without starting a business or working crazy overtime” is a bit unfair. I’d love to see the average time it takes a pilot to make >200k without overtime or being a contractor (business owner). Hint, they’re near the end of their career at that point for the majority.

[Zaibatsu]

It’s not a loaded question. It’s a simple one.

Are you making over $200k on a T4 as a salaried daily or hourly employee?

Or is it as an owner of a business?

If you own a business, what does that figure entail? Because if that’s the gross income you get from dividends and income splitting, then it’s comparable. But if it’s gross revenue then it’s definitely not!

A pilot isn’t paying for a chartered accountant to do his year end. He isn’t paying for insurance on his job. He isn’t paying for workers comp. He has no capital costs associated with his job. No equipment or tool purchases. No building lease or purchase depending on the size and type of business. No work truck. He also isn’t hiring anyone else to help him do his job.

Then there’s the lifestyle aspect beyond that. A business owner can rarely take a day off. You have to make hay while the sun shines. As sole proprietor with no employees there is no coverage for sick days or holidays. There’s no disability if you get injured unless you pay a lot for insurance. There’s no EI if work dries up.

Yeah, a lot of pilots make good money because they are overtime monkeys. But that’s expected as part of owning a small business. It isn’t overtime because you’re not getting paid for it, but the hours are there.

A lot of it is hard labour too when you’re 60-65 unless you can have a company big enough to have lots of employees. That’s definitely not going to be everyone who goes through plumbing school. The other option is to work for a company and be a foreman or site manager but then you weren’t making no 200k 5 years out of school to work up to that point.

[garfield]

Worth it, only if you get a good timing.

[PitchLink]

It’s not a loaded question. It’s a simple one.

Are you making over $200k on a T4 as a salaried daily or hourly employee?

Or is it as an owner of a business?

If you own a business, what does that figure entail? Because if that’s the gross income you get from dividends and income splitting, then it’s comparable. But if it’s gross revenue then it’s definitely not!

A pilot isn’t paying for a chartered accountant to do his year end. He isn’t paying for insurance on his job. He isn’t paying for workers comp. He has no capital costs associated with his job. No equipment or tool purchases. No building lease or purchase depending on the size and type of business. No work truck. He also isn’t hiring anyone else to help him do his job.

Then there’s the lifestyle aspect beyond that. A business owner can rarely take a day off. You have to make hay while the sun shines. As sole proprietor with no employees there is no coverage for sick days or holidays. There’s no disability if you get injured unless you pay a lot for insurance. There’s no EI if work dries up.

Yeah, a lot of pilots make good money because they are overtime monkeys. But that’s expected as part of owning a small business. It isn’t overtime because you’re not getting paid for it, but the hours are there.

A lot of it is hard labour too when you’re 60-65 unless you can have a company big enough to have lots of employees. That’s definitely not going to be everyone who goes through plumbing school. The other option is to work for a company and be a foreman or site manager but then you weren’t making no 200k 5 years out of school to work up to that point.

Given this statement I’m quite sure you’re not a business owner and if you were you did it wrong. I work less than half the year and made more than that for the last ten years and yes, we do contribute to cpp and ei lol

[172DDriver]

I should have jumped into the trades

That's my current jump right now, Back to college...

[Tiberius]

I wouldn't base such a decision soley on what a select few individuals working in the industry have to say. The question of weather something is "worth it" implies that the people you are asking can tell the future.

They can't.

I think this question often comes from people who haven't figured out their livelihood yet and are trying to knock out 2 birds with 1 stone. Pursuing aviation and livelihood don't necessarily correlate.

I think if you are starting fresh out of the gate, your best approach is to figure out your livelihood first. That could be as simple as learning a trade or doing a short 2 year diploma in something that will secure a livelihood for you right out of the gate. It doesn't have to be a top salary, but just enough to sustain yourself. Once you have that, the question of it being "worth it" takes on entirely different optics. In any profession, there is more to consider than just compensation.

For example. What kind of relationship do you want to have with your employer? Do you want to be treated like you're replaceable, or indispensable? Are you going to be at the whim of your boss be treated like a potential partner in the business? What do you have to do to get where you want to be? How long will it take? What are the hurdles? Do you want to be home every night or do you like being out on the road? Do you want to get married and have kids or do you prefer the bachelor life? Do you want to be your own boss? Ok, what sort of capital would you need for that in your chosen field? In aviation, capital could mean the cost of a small airplane. In other fields it could just be a laptop and some software.

Those are just some of the questions you need to ask yourself in determining if something is "worth it". Because you can get the job of your dreams and still end up miserable. Whatever you choose, just make sure you do it on your own terms and not anyone else's.

[rpppilot]

Worth it, only if you get a good timing.

I don't understand why everyone ignores this? in my opinion it's a 8-10 year journey from 0 to making over 100K. What are the chances you're not going to lose your job like half the industry does every 10 years?

Even if you land on your feet in a backup career, what are the chances you'll be able to or willing to leave a stable job when things pick up again?