Practice approaches while vfr

[photofly]

Can I do practice approaches even without a px if I don’t have the hood on and can look out?

Yes, you can. Go fill your boots. And enjoy yourself.

[Hot Wings]

You must have taught yourself to draw!

This made me spit out a bit of my beer

[rookiepilot]

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[Big Pistons Forever]

Fun flying is going out on a sunny day and doing some gentleman aerobatics or just fly around and enjoying the scenery, or hopping over to a nearby airport for the $ 100 burger. I have always considered IFR flying work. Precision flying is not optional when flying IFR, complete knowledge of IFR procedures is not optional, complete preflight planning is not optional, effective and efficient radio communication skill is not optional, IFR PDM is not optional, understanding wx is not optional.

When I teach IFR I emphasize that IFR demands personal discipline and a higher standard as the minimum to operate safety, over what they were used to flying VFR. If they did not want to make the commitment then I was not going to train them. I had a few PPL's and one CPL student that started IFR training and for various reason decided that IFR was not for them. I did not think they were bad pilots and respected the fact that they were happy to stick with VFR flying.

One day I got a call from one of my PPL IFR students. He had lost 6 inches of one propeller blade in a C177 at 9000 ft on top of a solid overcast. The vibration was so bad that the AI and DI toppled and all the knobs on his radios fell off. He did a partial panel cloud break and landed on the airport he knew was almost directly below him because I beat into every student the importance of keeping continual situational awareness. I can say with certainly that he worked very hard during his IFR training and did not have a lot of "fun". He did however have the skills to deal with a very serious situation.

And still waiting to hear how many pilots photofly recommended for the IFR flight test....

[ghazanhaider]

Wow did that spawn a thread. I feel the need to clarify.

I have a Bonanza and 700+ hours. A lot of it with flight following or cvfr in 5 different countries. I’m comfortable with doing things while flying and decided to get my IR when I can.

In Ontario we are in a state of emergency and I wouldn’t want to fly with an instructor quite yet. My brother who lives with me can be an occasional safety observer but I wouldn’t try a hood before doing this with an instructor. That feels too risky.

And I do have both Xplane and the new FS but I must fly my plane multiple times a month to swish the oil and keep it healthy. For example tomorrow I might go do more holds. And vor intercepts. What else is there to do.. I can’t even go for a breakfast to Brantford.

The approaches I had in mind were going to be vfr. I’m not doing a real instrument scan. I basically want to get used to radio work, reading plates, working my KLN94 while keeping the right altitude so that when I’m doing it for real there is much less to learn and I can absorb it better. Would also be nice to become more familiar with the transitions and approaches near my home base in southern Ontario where I will be using these skills in real life. I don’t have a CPL and I’m not trying to become an ATPL for cheap. And definitely would not put on a hood or get a safety observer and do instrument scans. I know there are habits to build correctly.

So let me ask again in different words:

Is there anything wrong doing vfr practice approaches without doing an instrument scan while staying all vfr? Before any instructor time?

Is it legal to do this while on a flight itinerary?

If both are yes: where can I find more details on how to do these beside asking forums and watching YouTube? Somewhere in the aim or IPM or a transport Canada publication? Expected details on radio and things that are different from real approaches.

If still all a bad idea, I’ll just go back to vor intercepts and upper air work like steep turns and forced approaches. I’m bored of flying the same way week after week.

[waterdog]

Hi Ghazanhaider, I am in the same boat, here is what I am doing. Check out the book, "IFR for VFR pilots" by Richard Taylor, its got a lot of great exercises. Lots of good info here and stuff to practice VFR, IMO this should be mandatory reading for all VFR pilots. Richard Taylor also has a book called, "Instrument flying" that is also fantastic. On the weather side, I would recommend, "Weather Flying" by Robert Buck. Those are a great start on books that have a ton of information and will help you out as you get closer to studying for the INRAT.
I'm in the same boat, I have a plane but no instructor due to covid, so I am getting some precision flying practice in while I have time. Things I have found.......
Simulated practices into non-towered airports are tricky when the weather is good because you are trying to fit into VFR traffic flow, something I don't try and do if traffic is busy. Poor weather days, off-peak times or quieter airports are all things I look for. I abandon lots of approaches just because of traffic. I don't fly practise approaches into towered fields, in my area, they are just too busy.
So what I am practising? The plane I just got has a 430 in it and I don't have an IBM that I can load a 430 simulator in, so a lot of it is just getting used to the 430. Track inbound to a VOR, then pretend you are deviating to a field with an RNAV approach ( lots of non-towered fields have these) then fly the approach as far as you can before you have to break off due to traffic. This means pulling up the plate, briefing it, programming the approach all while not losing VFR situational awareness and maintaining altitude and a heading. I find this all good practice. Note times where things fall apart and you get behind and then try and do better. If you find you are losing situational awareness or are getting unsafe due to traffic then knock it off and fly the plane. I am not doing this under the hood as I am alone, and I find that I have to break this down into pieces sometimes because of traffic. The other day the weather wasn't great and I was the only one up in the area I was flying, lucky me. The other option is just fly high, I haven't tried this yet but flying an eastbound RNAV approach at 5500' and not descending will keep you out of most traffic, allow you to practice one aspect of the approach without interfering with airport traffic. Just remember the VFR altitudes and rules regarding overflight of non-towered fields. This I haven't tried yet but it is something I have been debating as a way of staying out of the way. One of the issues lately is that the clouds have been low for what feels like months.
IMO IFR approaches are can be broken into several segments. There is the lateral navigation, the vertical navigation, and the technical aspect getting used to the new tech you need to manage. I have found that without a second set of eyes outside watching for traffic its all but impossible to practice all of this simultaneously. But break an approach into segments and it's not so bad. For instance, flying point to point on a GPS approach but not descending ticks off the lateral portion of the approach and tech management.
Start with the books, listen to the other comments, lots of good comments here from people with a lot more experience than I. Like others have said, be aware that you are likely practising it wrong so treat it as a familiarization flying vs training. At the end of the day, I am really just making up games and trying to fly precisely so that when I can get an instructor and T.C. has some hope of allowing us to write a test I am just a little bit ahead. Oh, and Cloud ahoy is a great way to assess how you did! Good luck and enjoy!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Gazenhader

This is an anonymous form so if you are set on going out and flying approaches I am sure not going to stop you so fill your boots. As has been pointed out as long as you conform to VFR procedures there is nothing illegal about what you are proposing

However in my experience there is a misconception that IFR training is all about approaches and holds. That is part of it but the foundation of IFR is being able to accurately fly the airplane. My experience has been that the better a new IFR can fly the airplane the better they do on the course

If you watch good IFR pilots you will see they have mastered the attitude + power = performance + trim for the aircraft they fly. They can transition to different flight paths without any hunting around before the aircraft is stabilized on the new flight path. Because the flying part is largely automatic, they have lots of mental capacity to manage the IFR procedures and maintain situational awareness. That should be your goal

Instead of flying an IFR practice flying the IFR flight path. Start at altitude away from other traffic at a steady non even altitude like 4300 ft and stable at 150kts. Add approach flap and slow to 120 kts while maintaining altitude. Turn 45 degrees drop the gear and transition to a 120 kt 700 rpm descent. Slow to 100 kts and then transition to a full power 100 kt climb while cleaning up the airplane and maintaining heading with the ball centred

I guarantee you can’t do that now without some major excursions from the required parameters. When you can do that without effort, you will find an ILS to a minimums ILS a piece of cake. If you can’t fly that profile you will struggle when you try to program the nav aids, run the checklist, and talk to ATC

This advice is worth every penny you paid for it Feel free to ignore it as you won’t hurt my feelings. It is one data point and like everything I try to post represents my personal opinion on what I consider the best answer to your question. It is offered in the spirit of paying forward all the great advice I have received throughout my flying career.

I think my contributions have run their course so I will bow out and I apologize contributing to the side tracking of your post.

Good luck on your training

[ghazanhaider]

Thanks guys.

BPF: I appreciate all the advice.

“This is an anonymous form so if you are set on going out and flying approaches fill your boots”

My nickname is my name. I’m hardly trying to be anonymous. In aviation at least I don’t want to do anything that requires anonymity.

I think what you’re describing is flying by numbers. There are multiple books on building pac charts for Bonanzas that I own. I have pac charts pat down for my plane and can do level to 500fpm to level and quick switch to 120kts very easily. I was practising that last flight as well. And Beechcraft are easy to configure that way. I’m not perfect in a few things and keeping the numbers must be practiced more I agree

[photofly]

Gazenhader

This is an anonymous form so if you are set on going out and flying approaches I am sure not going to stop you so fill your boots. As has been pointed out as long as you conform to VFR procedures there is nothing illegal about what you are proposing

<lots of good advice>

Good luck on your training

In the spirit of being positive (the benefit of which is often overlooked) I will say I thought this was a really helpful post.

[rookiepilot]

Gazenhader


If you watch good IFR pilots you will see they have mastered the attitude + power = performance + trim for the aircraft they fly. They can transition to different flight paths without any hunting around before the aircraft is stabilized on the new flight path. Because the flying part is largely automatic, they have lots of mental capacity to manage the IFR procedures and maintain situational awareness. That should be your goal



Good luck on your training

+100.

[telex]

[CpnCrunch]

The only really tricky thing about flying IFR is the non-precision approach, and that's mainly because there is so much going on rather than it being inherently difficult (unless you decide to do an NDB approach, but they're mostly gone now).