Potential Airline Bailout

[DanWEC]

Now that Sunwing has got their government bailout I imagine everyone else will be getting one too.

Edit: It's just a high interest loan. Not much help as most airlines could get cheaper loans elsewhere.

Yep, it's actually the opposite of encouraging. It's a last resort loan which balloons to 14% after a few years. It's like going to Money Mart.

Recent words from Omar Alghabra, can we continue to hammer these words back at them through letters and social media? Are these just utter bald faced lies?

He said: "Our government understands that a STRONG air sector is VITAL for Canada’s economy and the well-being of Canadians"

Maybe if they hear their own words over and over it'll sink in and not just be pointless fluff?

Our government understands that a strong air sector is vital for Canada’s economy and the well-being of Canadians
Our government understands that a strong air sector is vital for Canada’s economy and the well-being of Canadians
Our government understands that a strong air sector is vital for Canada’s economy and the well-being of Canadians

[digits_]

Now that Sunwing has got their government bailout I imagine everyone else will be getting one too.

Edit: It's just a high interest loan. Not much help as most airlines could get cheaper loans elsewhere.

Yep, it's actually the opposite of encouraging. It's a last resort loan which balloons to 14% after a few years. It's like going to Money Mart.

Recent words from Omar Alghabra, can we continue to hammer these words back at them through letters and social media? Are these just utter bald faced lies?

He said: "Our government understands that a STRONG air sector is VITAL for Canada’s economy and the well-being of Canadians"

Maybe if they hear their own words over and over it'll sink in and not just be pointless fluff?

They are talking about the sector as a whole, not specific companies.

What would be stronger: a sector with start ups with limited debts (and assets that would probably appreciate the first few years), or a sector with established companies suffering from huge debts?

[altiplano]

Now that Sunwing has got their government bailout I imagine everyone else will be getting one too.

Edit: It's just a high interest loan. Not much help as most airlines could get cheaper loans elsewhere.

Yep, it's actually the opposite of encouraging. It's a last resort loan which balloons to 14% after a few years. It's like going to Money Mart.

Recent words from Omar Alghabra, can we continue to hammer these words back at them through letters and social media? Are these just utter bald faced lies?

He said: "Our government understands that a STRONG air sector is VITAL for Canada’s economy and the well-being of Canadians"

Maybe if they hear their own words over and over it'll sink in and not just be pointless fluff?

They are talking about the sector as a whole, not specific companies.

What would be stronger: a sector with start ups with limited debts (and assets that would probably appreciate the first few years), or a sector with established companies suffering from huge debts?

Because that capital required for a startup to acquire a fleet of aircraft and everything to support it and sink into developing and launching a route network isn't "debt."

That doesn't just appear all fresh to fill a void, bright eyed, with no debt.

[digits_]

Because that capital required for a startup to acquire a fleet of aircraft and everything to support it and sink into developing and launching a route network isn't "debt."

That doesn't just appear all fresh to fill a void, bright eyed, with no debt.

True, but the start up would be able to buy up whatever pieces the defaulted airline leaves behind. Even buying airplanes or securing leases at this time would be much cheaper and probably turn a profit in a few years. A new company rising out of the ashes of the old one happens a lot. Given the current circumstances, the new company would most likey be more profitable by doing the same thing as the old company would have done.

The employees would be left holding the short straw of course, as usual

[gtappl]

Your logic fails, much like your research! We as a Country are behind in vaccinations compared to other Countries like Serbia, Iceland, Bahrain, Ireland, Malta, Romania, Switzerland, Poland...just to name a few! What the actual @#$! are you talking about!?!

Is your reading comprehension this bad? Half those countries are in the EU/Euro zone which I already mentioned. And except for Poland all are a lot smaller than us, and more centralized. The phizer stuff needs to be kept at insanely low temperatures and it's easier to do that when your country has less people than 1 Toronto suburb.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... es-dwindle

An opinion piece from the sun? A gem of journalism /s

[altiplano]

Not like there are any vaccines to fly to Canada anyway...

Between the ineptitude of the Liberal Government in securing doses for delivery in early stages, and now EU restrictions on the export of vaccines... Canada is way down the list and looking like a worse place to be as far as any recovery hope goes.

We're a test case against a compliant populace...

What do you expect the populace to do? Fly to Europe and harass the EU leaders? We're a small and irrelevant country, why would we be first in line for anything?

Looks like we will get vaccine from the *vaccine food bank" for poor countries.

Only G7 nation... what a distinction... lumped in there with Rwanda and Sudan.

I know the Globe and Mail is rag... but they aren't making it up.

Pending regulator approval, Canada will receive 1.9 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine from the COVAX program. It’s listed among countries such as Rwanda, Afghanistan and Sudan, which have yet to receive any vaccines, according to the Our World in Data website.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government faces intense political pressure for a vaccine rollout that in its first two months has been beset by delays, and repeatedly lowered expectations. Amid a global supply crunch with only a few COVID-19 vaccines approved, countries in the European Union are under similar pressure but held off drawing on the limited doses COVAX has available.

The Globe and Mail: Canada the only G7 country to take vaccines from fund that helps developing countries.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... eveloping/

[TrilliumFlt]

This from our Federal Leadership.....

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau ... -1.5296128

[whipline]

In all honesty were you expecting a different result from hiring an ex frat boy part time drama teacher from a private school?

[altiplano]

Right up there with "budgets balance themselves".

What a tool.

[gtappl]

In all honesty were you expecting a different result from hiring an ex frat boy part time drama teacher from a private school?

You act as if the sell the kitchen sink conservatives are any better. I hate trudeau but the cons decisions in the past have royally fucked us as well in this pandemic.

Not like there are any vaccines to fly to Canada anyway...

Between the ineptitude of the Liberal Government in securing doses for delivery in early stages, and now EU restrictions on the export of vaccines... Canada is way down the list and looking like a worse place to be as far as any recovery hope goes.

We're a test case against a compliant populace...

What do you expect the populace to do? Fly to Europe and harass the EU leaders? We're a small and irrelevant country, why would we be first in line for anything?

Looks like we will get vaccine from the *vaccine food bank" for poor countries.

Only G7 nation... what a distinction... lumped in there with Rwanda and Sudan.

I know the Globe and Mail is rag... but they aren't making it up.

Pending regulator approval, Canada will receive 1.9 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine from the COVAX program. It’s listed among countries such as Rwanda, Afghanistan and Sudan, which have yet to receive any vaccines, according to the Our World in Data website.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government faces intense political pressure for a vaccine rollout that in its first two months has been beset by delays, and repeatedly lowered expectations. Amid a global supply crunch with only a few COVID-19 vaccines approved, countries in the European Union are under similar pressure but held off drawing on the limited doses COVAX has available.

The Globe and Mail: Canada the only G7 country to take vaccines from fund that helps developing countries.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... eveloping/

Can't open your paywall link. It sounds like you're complaining for the sake of complaining. We pledged to fund vaccines for poor countries from the fund, one of the option is to buy some as well. If we buy 1 million and give enough to donate 5 million what's the issue?

If there's anyone you should be mad at it's the average voter for encouraging short sighted sell of behaviour of valuable assets like our vaccine labs back in the Mulroney days.

[whipline]

You act as if the sell the kitchen sink conservatives are any better. I hate trudeau but the cons decisions in the past have royally fucked us as well in this pandemic.

So you agree with me? Or it’s not his fault because of 1985?

[gtappl]

You act as if the sell the kitchen sink conservatives are any better. I hate trudeau but the cons decisions in the past have royally fucked us as well in this pandemic.

So you agree with me? Or it’s not his fault because of 1985?

I think your comment was irrelevant, and if anything this retarded bickering we do of cons vs libs guarantees nothing will ever change

[Localizer]

I think it’s safe to say that this pandemic has proven all governments to be inept across the planet, and I’ll give them a pass on it to a degree, but the vaccine rollout falls squarely on the government, and our government (JT) has done a shit job. On top of doing a shit job he’s trying to bullshit us with “we’re on track” ... bullshit!

I don’t care what political stripe you are - Lib, Con, NDP or GRN ... this guy is doing serious damage to our country. Period. And these COVID deaths, due to a lack of vaccine supply, are HIS to own.

Rex Murphy sums up perfectly.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-m ... y-question

[gtappl]

I think it’s safe to say that this pandemic has proven all governments to be inept across the planet, and I’ll give them a pass on it to a degree, but the vaccine rollout falls squarely on the government, and our government (JT) has done a shit job. On top of doing a shit job he’s trying to bullshit us with “we’re on track” ... bullshit!

I don’t care what political stripe you are - Lib, Con, NDP or GRN ... this guy is doing serious damage to our country. Period. And these COVID deaths, due to a lack of vaccine supply, are HIS to own.

Rex Murphy sums up perfectly.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-m ... y-question

Typical national post OMG they spent money on chairs! What would YOU have done differently considering we're a small and irrelevant country?

[Localizer]

[quote=Localizer post_id=<a href="tel:1143139">1143139</a> time=<a href="tel:1612584901">1612584901</a> user_id=2924]
I think it’s safe to say that this pandemic has proven all governments to be inept across the planet, and I’ll give them a pass on it to a degree, but the vaccine rollout falls squarely on the government, and our government (JT) has done a shit job. On top of doing a shit job he’s trying to bullshit us with “we’re on track” ... bullshit!

I don’t care what political stripe you are - Lib, Con, NDP or GRN ... this guy is doing serious damage to our country. Period. And these COVID deaths, due to a lack of vaccine supply, are HIS to own.

Rex Murphy sums up perfectly.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-m ... y-question

Typical national post OMG they spent money on chairs! What would YOU have done differently considering we're a small and irrelevant country?
[/quote]

Gtappl, you have a future in politics my friend. Out of all that, you pick the simplest thing to hammer on to make a point that really isn’t a point. I can only assume that you know the vaccine rollout has been a shit show, but in order to support your political view, you’re going to support your boy to the end.

The current Liberal party you see today ... isn’t the Liberal party I’ve ever known. I’ve lived through many Liberal governments and they’re typically center-left. This “Liberal government” is extreme left.

[Mach1]

You act as if the sell the kitchen sink conservatives are any better. I hate trudeau but the cons decisions in the past have royally fucked us as well in this pandemic.

Aga Khan.
Kokanee Grope.
Black Face.
SNC Lavalin.
Mr. Dressup's trip to India... complete with convicted attempted murderer along for the ride.
Bringing Gerald Butts back into office after he resigned in disgrace over...
Interfering with the minister of Justice, then demoting her when she wouldn't do what she was told by the PM.
Admiral Mark Norman.
WE scandal and all his friends and family getting wealthy off of a very friendly relationship with the WE organization.
Cancelling all investigations into the WE scandal.
Attempting to buy vaccine from China at the height of bad relations with China over Meng Wanzhou.
Failure to fund a local vaccine trial because it was a Calgary based company... We'd all be getting locally sourced vaccine right now. (I guess Alberta should just diversify... somehow... completely unsupported)
Buying vaccine at the last minute with no guarantee of delivery dates.
Failure to distribute vaccine.
Has not attended parliament in over a year... that's actually his job.
Our PM is an international embarrassment known to the other world leaders for saying one thing and doing another.

There's more... but I've made my point.

gtappl, where is the line this man has to cross before you would not vote for him?

Could he just shoot a man in downtown Ottawa and you'd still talk about how the conservatives are worse or would you vote anything other than Liberal at that point?

How much of this country does he have to destroy before you pull your head out of JT's ass? Because the lack of oxygen seems to be effecting your cognitive abilities.

You don't have to vote Conservative. Vote NDP, Green, Bloc, Independent. Because at this point you are not voting for policies or a government that will improve the nation, you are voting because you have an emotional connection to this person who is destroying our nation.

[gtappl]

[quote=Localizer post_id=<a href="tel:1143139">1143139</a> time=<a href="tel:1612584901">1612584901</a> user_id=2924]
I think it’s safe to say that this pandemic has proven all governments to be inept across the planet, and I’ll give them a pass on it to a degree, but the vaccine rollout falls squarely on the government, and our government (JT) has done a shit job. On top of doing a shit job he’s trying to bullshit us with “we’re on track” ... bullshit!

I don’t care what political stripe you are - Lib, Con, NDP or GRN ... this guy is doing serious damage to our country. Period. And these COVID deaths, due to a lack of vaccine supply, are HIS to own.

Rex Murphy sums up perfectly.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-m ... y-question

Typical national post OMG they spent money on chairs! What would YOU have done differently considering we're a small and irrelevant country?

Gtappl, you have a future in politics my friend. Out of all that, you pick the simplest thing to hammer on to make a point that really isn’t a point. I can only assume that you know the vaccine rollout has been a shit show, but in order to support your political view, you’re going to support your boy to the end.

The current Liberal party you see today ... isn’t the Liberal party I’ve ever known. I’ve lived through many Liberal governments and they’re typically center-left. This “Liberal government” is extreme left.
[/quote]

I like this double standard where I can't even criticize an article? I hate Trudeau btw. If you haven't noticed there is a world wide shortage of the vaccine and we're running low because phizer cut production to increase capacity and the EU told AZ they can't send us anything.

[gtappl]

You act as if the sell the kitchen sink conservatives are any better. I hate trudeau but the cons decisions in the past have royally fucked us as well in this pandemic.

Aga Khan.
Kokanee Grope.
Black Face.
SNC Lavalin.
Mr. Dressup's trip to India... complete with convicted attempted murderer along for the ride.
Bringing Gerald Butts back into office after he resigned in disgrace over...
Interfering with the minister of Justice, then demoting her when she wouldn't do what she was told by the PM.
Admiral Mark Norman.
WE scandal and all his friends and family getting wealthy off of a very friendly relationship with the WE organization.
Cancelling all investigations into the WE scandal.
Attempting to buy vaccine from China at the height of bad relations with China over Meng Wanzhou.
Failure to fund a local vaccine trial because it was a Calgary based company... We'd all be getting locally sourced vaccine right now. (I guess Alberta should just diversify... somehow... completely unsupported)
Buying vaccine at the last minute with no guarantee of delivery dates.
Failure to distribute vaccine.
Has not attended parliament in over a year... that's actually his job.
Our PM is an international embarrassment known to the other world leaders for saying one thing and doing another.

There's more... but I've made my point.

gtappl, where is the line this man has to cross before you would not vote for him?

Could he just shoot a man in downtown Ottawa and you'd still talk about how the conservatives are worse or would you vote anything other than Liberal at that point?

How much of this country does he have to destroy before you pull your head out of JT's ass? Because the lack of oxygen seems to be effecting your cognitive abilities.

You don't have to vote Conservative. Vote NDP, Green, Bloc, Independent. Because at this point you are not voting for policies or a government that will improve the nation, you are voting because you have an emotional connection to this person who is destroying our nation.

I voted for harper in 2015 so try again. I'm just sick of the post 2015 cons offering just criticism and saying they'd do a better job with 0 explanation.

I've asked people here how does an irrelevant country like Canada get more vaccines in a world wide shortage and not a peep from anyone here!

[Fanblade]

I've asked people here how does an irrelevant country like Canada get more vaccines in a world wide shortage and not a peep from anyone here!

Canada has next to no ability to produce vaccine. So anyone in this position with a brain, would have put their eggs in multiple baskets from the get go, attempting to get as far up the line as possible in multiple sources. The practical person would hedge their bets in our situation.

Trudeau didn’t do that. He put all our eggs in one basket. A Chinese one that has no problem using extortion to get what it wants. It’s believed they demanded Meng back. Donald Duck could have seen that coming.

That left Trudeau scrambling late in the game trying to put eggs in as many baskets as possible. Even baskets meant for poor countries. Embarrassing.

Now we are at the back of the line in those baskets. We won’t be vaccinated by September with the better vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna. The only way we get there now is with vaccines with way less efficacy.

The end result has caused two problems. Less access to vaccinations overall and the shortfall being made up with lower efficacy.

So when vaccination passports start to become the norm, do you think countries might say we won’t accept 66% efficacy? Get a better vaccination before you enter.

Who cares what the political stripe is. Someone needs to take responsibility for the actions taken. If not Trudeau, then who?

Donald Duck because he didn’t speak up?

[Mach1]

I voted for harper in 2015 so try again. I'm just sick of the post 2015 cons offering just criticism and saying they'd do a better job with 0 explanation.

I've asked people here how does an irrelevant country like Canada get more vaccines in a world wide shortage and not a peep from anyone here!

Ah, the "I'm not going to answer the question you asked, I'm going to answer the question I wanted you to ask" answer. Localizer is correct, you do talk like a politician.

I will answer your statement about a vaccine shortage in Canada only... A year ago, we could have invested in our own universities and medical research companies (If you actually read my list of things, a Canadian company stepped up and was denied) and we would have had the vaccines. Because anyone doing some thinking about the recovery would have realized it was going to be every country for themselves when the vaccine came, in order to be the first to recover. But not us... we relied on someone else saving us. Same mentality I hear when people say "Why should Canada have a military, just let the American's protect us." They might.. if it's in their best interests. They might not for the same reason. The vaccine has been just that... you can have some when we're done.

Alternatively, instead of first attempting to buy our vaccine from the Chinese (and one really has a to wonder why our PM is so damned eager to please the Chinese when he is supposedly against human rights violations) we could have bought from ONE of our allies and made sure we negotiated ourselves somewhere in the top 5 on the delivery list. Could have. But we didn't.

If you haven't noticed there is a world wide shortage of the vaccine and we're running low because phizer cut production to increase capacity and the EU told AZ they can't send us anything.

I have noticed that there is, in fact, no world wide shortage of vaccine. Just read the numbers. Plenty of people vaccinated and we just keep falling further down the list.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

[gtappl]

I've asked people here how does an irrelevant country like Canada get more vaccines in a world wide shortage and not a peep from anyone here!

Canada has next to no ability to produce vaccine. So anyone in this position with a brain, would have put their eggs in multiple baskets from the get go, attempting to get as far up the line as possible in multiple sources. The practical person would hedge their bets in our situation.

Trudeau didn’t do that. He put all our eggs in one basket. A Chinese one that has no problem using extortion to get what it wants. It’s believed they demanded Meng back. Donald Duck could have seen that coming.

That left Trudeau scrambling late in the game trying to put eggs in as many baskets as possible. Even baskets meant for poor countries. Embarrassing.

Now we are at the back of the line in those baskets. We won’t be vaccinated by September with the better vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna. The only way we get there now is with vaccines with way less efficacy.

The end result has caused two problems. Less access to vaccinations overall and the shortfall being made up with lower efficacy.

So when vaccination passports start to become the norm, do you think countries might say we won’t accept 66% efficacy? Get a better vaccination before you enter.

Who cares what the political stripe is. Someone needs to take responsibility for the actions taken. If not Trudeau, then who?

Donald Duck because he didn’t speak up?

Who says we're at the back of the line? The moderna chairman said we're close to the front.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/11/29/ ... ine-doses/

I'll offer another perspective, is it possible China was the only one who'd put us first?

[gtappl]

I voted for harper in 2015 so try again. I'm just sick of the post 2015 cons offering just criticism and saying they'd do a better job with 0 explanation.

I've asked people here how does an irrelevant country like Canada get more vaccines in a world wide shortage and not a peep from anyone here!

Ah, the "I'm not going to answer the question you asked, I'm going to answer the question I wanted you to ask" answer. Localizer is correct, you do talk like a politician.

I will answer your statement about a vaccine shortage in Canada only... A year ago, we could have invested in our own universities and medical research companies (If you actually read my list of things, a Canadian company stepped up and was denied) and we would have had the vaccines. Because anyone doing some thinking about the recovery would have realized it was going to be every country for themselves when the vaccine came, in order to be the first to recover. But not us... we relied on someone else saving us. Same mentality I hear when people say "Why should Canada have a military, just let the American's protect us." They might.. if it's in their best interests. They might not for the same reason. The vaccine has been just that... you can have some when we're done.

Alternatively, instead of first attempting to buy our vaccine from the Chinese (and one really has a to wonder why our PM is so damned eager to please the Chinese when he is supposedly against human rights violations) we could have bought from ONE of our allies and made sure we negotiated ourselves somewhere in the top 5 on the delivery list. Could have. But we didn't.

If you haven't noticed there is a world wide shortage of the vaccine and we're running low because phizer cut production to increase capacity and the EU told AZ they can't send us anything.

I have noticed that there is, in fact, no world wide shortage of vaccine. Just read the numbers. Plenty of people vaccinated and we just keep falling further down the list.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Call me whatever you want but with the tone everyone here is using, you're lucky I'm even giving you my time to reply.


What is the company that was denied? The closest thing I read is one company is planning on submitting a home made vaccine but would take several months to start production AFTER trials finish.

[Ruddervator]

I've asked people here how does an irrelevant country like Canada get more vaccines in a world wide shortage and not a peep from anyone here!

Canada has next to no ability to produce vaccine. So anyone in this position with a brain, would have put their eggs in multiple baskets from the get go, attempting to get as far up the line as possible in multiple sources. The practical person would hedge their bets in our situation.

According to the Procurement Minister Anita Anand, Canada was the first country to come to an agreement with Moderna and the fourth country to make a deal with Pfizer. They could have always negotiated better terms, but the details of the contracts are private. That said, it's fair to say they didn't wait to make those deals.

The government "proactively and repeatedly" raised the possibility of using or creating domestic capacity when it was negotiating with vaccine suppliers. Unfortunately, the companies didn't see a desirable way forward in Canada. The expertise and manufacturing capacity just didn't exist in Canada at the time the deal was made last Aug/Sept.

[Mach1]

you're lucky I'm even giving you my time to reply.


What is the company that was denied? The closest thing I read is one company is planning on submitting a home made vaccine but would take several months to start production AFTER trials finish.

Oh, I am ever so lucky.

That company -> "despite offers from a Montreal company to manufacture millions of doses by the end of 2020." or, this company -> "Calgary’s Providence Therapeutics had a similar story, saying that although it had developed a vaccine that successfully blocked COVID-19 transmission in mice, Ottawa ignored their appeals to have the treatment proceed to human trials." Or maybe this company -> "PnuVax, a Montreal biomanufacturer, runs a Health Canada-approved facility just down the street from the Biologics Manufacturing Centre, and has an established pedigree of manufacturing Ebola and pneumonia treatments. Multiple industry sources told the Globe and Mail that it was indeed plausible for PnuVax to have been cranking out truckloads of vaccines by Christmas." Take your pick.

https://nationalpost.com/news/how-ottaw ... cquisition

England poured money into building the facilities needed to manufacture vaccines, and the research to create the vaccine over the last year while we have done nothing to help ourselves.

Speaking of no help... I am sure I will die of shock if this government offers help to the air transport industry in this country.

[gtappl]

you're lucky I'm even giving you my time to reply.


What is the company that was denied? The closest thing I read is one company is planning on submitting a home made vaccine but would take several months to start production AFTER trials finish.

Oh, I am ever so lucky.

That company -> "despite offers from a Montreal company to manufacture millions of doses by the end of 2020." or, this company -> "Calgary’s Providence Therapeutics had a similar story, saying that although it had developed a vaccine that successfully blocked COVID-19 transmission in mice, Ottawa ignored their appeals to have the treatment proceed to human trials." Or maybe this company -> "PnuVax, a Montreal biomanufacturer, runs a Health Canada-approved facility just down the street from the Biologics Manufacturing Centre, and has an established pedigree of manufacturing Ebola and pneumonia treatments. Multiple industry sources told the Globe and Mail that it was indeed plausible for PnuVax to have been cranking out truckloads of vaccines by Christmas." Take your pick.

https://nationalpost.com/news/how-ottaw ... cquisition

England poured money into building the facilities needed to manufacture vaccines, and the research to create the vaccine over the last year while we have done nothing to help ourselves.

Speaking of no help... I am sure I will die of shock if this government offers help to the air transport industry in this country.

As someone mentioned we were literally the 1st and 4th countries to have agreements. What happened to everyone shouting all our eggs in 1 basket?

I looked up providence and saw they're already doing clinical trails and they did in fact get support from the government. https://www.providencetherapeutics.com/ ... 19-vaccine

They wanted $150 million down payment. I saw some of the existing vacccies in other countries have ~60% immunity rate vs nearly 100% for moderna and pfizer. They themselves said don't expect anything till the end of the year or early 2022.

It's really easy to criticize how things are going if you make up the story....