ACPA MEC

[Lance rose]

Surely someone knows the politics of how the MEC works? Why don't they publish the votes? How is that accountable to their members?

[Fanblade]

Surely someone knows the politics of how the MEC works? Why don't they publish the votes? How is that accountable to their members?

The official answer is they are published within the minutes of every meeting.

The catch is that to see the minutes you have to go into HQ and ask to see them. Not only do you have to be present in the office but it’s a digging exercise.

Why? Why do you think? Because if voting was transparent, or easy to access, they would then get phone calls or Email asking for explanations. It reduces political risk. It provides plausible deniability to MEC members to hide behind. Life is a lot easier if accountability is kept to a minimum. It allows cover when doing something that might be unpopular. The Cargo MOU for example. The MEC vote was very split. Who voted what? No idea. Nor are MEC members supposed to be discussing it or they risk discipline for not falling in line with the vote outcome.

This was an issue brought forward during the governance review 5-6 years back. Good governance must have transparency. Without transparency there is no accountability. Without accountability there is no deterrent. The executive of the day rejected the idea of recorded votes.

That choice speaks volumes.

We have some long standing MEC members hiding behind the fact we can’t easily see how they voted. If we could see how individuals voted we wouldn’t have the current MEC.

[altiplano]

The most ridiculous thing is that the current Chair previously ran on transparency and published votes.

Now he sits on Olympus and shits on everyone calling for an answer.

[Montroyal]

Riddle me this

Isn't it the slim majority of the MEC that keeps ramming down these shit deals down our throats?

1) The "we are not a door to door delivery service" cargo deal to then become a "door to door delivery service" at 10% less pay for 10% more days of work

2) The reserve system so bad the government had to fix it but then to just show how much of delinquent of an organization ACPA can be, opened up negotiations & instead of saying "fix it" - decided to agree to "best fit" aka bye bye seniority and give AC management the wet dream they have been dreaming about since the inception of PornHub

3) One LEC Chair ran on a platform of being BBQ buddies with managers and won on this??

[PT6onH20]

What is to stop someone from finding the minutes of the meeting, and spilling the beans?

[Fanblade]

I think I may have contributed to a misconception.

For clarity. The vote results are recorded in the minutes. Example 7-5 in favour. Motion passed.

Who voted what is not recorded at all. There is no way to know unless you were in the room.

[rudder]

I think I may have contributed to a misconception.

For clarity. The vote results are recorded in the minutes. Example 7-5 in favour. Motion passed.

Who voted what is not recorded at all. There is no way to know unless you were in the room.

No idea how the ACPA Constitution or By Laws are set up, but under most Parliamentary Procedures one of the voting members can request a recorded vote on any motion.

[Fanblade]

I think I may have contributed to a misconception.

For clarity. The vote results are recorded in the minutes. Example 7-5 in favour. Motion passed.

Who voted what is not recorded at all. There is no way to know unless you were in the room.

No idea how the ACPA Constitution or By Laws are set up, but under most Parliamentary Procedures one of the voting members can request a recorded vote on any motion.

There is nothing in the ACPA constitution and or policy manual regarding recorded votes. There have been repeated attempts to bring in recorded votes over the years. The most recent was the governance review in 2015-16 but it was quashed at the MEC level.

What did come out of the governance review was an Oath of Office. The oath of office states the elected reps responsibility is to ACPA. No mention of pilots. It also states revealing ANYTHING the MEC deems confidential is a breach of the oath. Currently everything that happens at an MEC meeting is confidential. To the point ACPA now was two sets of minutes. Regular minutes which are now a simple summary. And confidential minutes which no one is allowed to see.

So although the official response is that members can go to ACPA office to see the minutes. What they actually have access to is a little better than a detailed newsletter.

We even have councillors who have been disciplined for internally dissenting on an issue and seeking a sober second thought. Their crime? Breaking communication protocol and expressing their concerns about the Cargo MOA in an open email to the entire MEC rather than just to the chair.


Transparency over how individuals are voting is impenetrable.

[simply_no_one]

We even have councillors who have been disciplined for internally dissenting on an issue and seeking a sober second thought. Their crime? Breaking communication protocol and expressing their concerns about the Cargo MOA in an open email to the entire MEC rather than just to the chair.


Transparency over how individuals are voting is impenetrable.

It is absolutely disgusting that the MEC Chair sent a copy of this letter to management. That alone should tell EVERYONE where he stands. He does not care about the membership, he only cares about himself, his flight release and his personal relationship with management.

He is a toxic leader who needs to be removed or forced to resign. Given all the information that has arisen in the last few weeks and STILL no one has started a recall petition should tell everyone how weak our membership is. Everyone talks a big game until it's time to take action, then they cower in fear.

[Fanblade]

We even have councillors who have been disciplined for internally dissenting on an issue and seeking a sober second thought. Their crime? Breaking communication protocol and expressing their concerns about the Cargo MOA in an open email to the entire MEC rather than just to the chair.


Transparency over how individuals are voting is impenetrable.

It is absolutely disgusting that the MEC Chair sent a copy of this letter to management. That alone should tell EVERYONE where he stands. He does not care about the membership, he only cares about himself, his flight release and his personal relationship with management.

He is a toxic leader who needs to be removed or forced to resign. Given all the information that has arisen in the last few weeks and STILL no one has started a recall petition should tell everyone how weak our membership is. Everyone talks a big game until it's time to take action, then they cower in fear.

Governance again. A super majority of the entire membership of 2/3 is required to recall the MEC Chair. We can’t get that to turn out to vote, let alone all vote to recall.

The MEC is the one that needs to recall him and the only realistic way it could happen. It won’t happen. Too many on the MEC are quite content with our MEC chair. Problem is you and I can’t easily figure out who is supporting the current direction because we can’t see votes.

This is how transparent democracy works. We can see exactly who voted what. I can even do so in the click of a link. Can you believe it?

https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewe ... --11162809


https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/vo ... oS3bx6t9j0

[simply_no_one]

Oh I'm pretty sure I know exactly how they are voting. There's a clear split down the middle and I'm sure MM is the tie breaker on most things.

[Lance rose]

Should be a fun week.

[Lance rose]

From your lips to God's ears some changes are coming.

[FL030]

CRYPTIC

[Rooster69]

Back to the days of the super 7. Only it is the super 6.





The fact that the MEC Chair forwarded the letter from the Councillors, who were expressing their concerns about the cargo let, really has me concerned about his abilities to head the MEC.

[RRJetPilot]

Complete Treason to the members of ACPA.

[RippleRock]

Considering ACPA is the "gatekeeper" for lousy deals presented to the Membership for vote, their track record makes complete sense.

ACPA is the definition of disfunction.

[simply_no_one]

ACPAd.jpg (92.31 KiB) Viewed 7083 times

[Montroyal]

Back to the days of the super 7. Only it is the super 6.





The fact that the MEC Chair forwarded the letter from the Councillors, who were expressing their concerns about the cargo let, really has me concerned about his abilities to head the MEC.

MM...Talking 3rd person...interesting...

So what is your stance on this bid fiasco?

Just sweep it under the carpet like we should for the "door to door delivery" 10% paycut for 20% more work cargo or just having the crew committee not follow the MOA next month cuz well...they don't feel like it?

Why do I see the same name for the Crew manning committee, the negotiating committee and YWG and all 3 things he touches turns to crap?

[Hangry]

What’s wrong with the bid?

[throwaway123]

What’s wrong with the bid?

Some questionable awards for pilots some who took jr reductions. Holding positions they shouldn't be able to when using the seniority of the person who's reduction they're taking. And thereby taking a position that someone with a RIR should have gotten.

[Hangry]

What’s wrong with the bid?

Some questionable awards for pilots some who took jr reductions. Holding positions they shouldn't be able to when using the seniority of the person who's reduction they're taking. And thereby taking a position that someone with a RIR should have gotten.

I think that’s been explained ad nauseam on the other forum. Or no. Gotta be something nefarious?

[Lance rose]

Whats wrong with the bid?

What's wrong with the MEC.that won't admit that they have a huge liability

[throwaway123]

What’s wrong with the bid?

Some questionable awards for pilots some who took jr reductions. Holding positions they shouldn't be able to when using the seniority of the person who's reduction they're taking. And thereby taking a position that someone with a RIR should have gotten.

I think that’s been explained ad nauseam on the other forum. Or no. Gotta be something nefarious?

I don't think there's anything nefarious I just think there might be some unintended mistakes given the complexity of this bid.

[Montroyal]

What’s wrong with the bid?

Some questionable awards for pilots some who took jr reductions. Holding positions they shouldn't be able to when using the seniority of the person who's reduction they're taking. And thereby taking a position that someone with a RIR should have gotten.

I think that’s been explained ad nauseam on the other forum. Or no. Gotta be something nefarious?

Looks like there is a poll on the forum to recall the MEC

Could it finally be time after debacle after debacle?