More WJ layoffs

[palebird]

I doubt it. The whole "plan" is to kill the economy as we know it. That especially means the fossil fuel transportation industry. There has to be a massive uprising against this covid nonsense before anything changes. And I don't see that happening in this country anytime soon.

[mmm..bacon]

^https://www.quirkbooks.com/post/worst-c ... infoil-hat

[hurtin'albertan]

I doubt it. The whole "plan" is to kill the economy as we know it. That especially means the fossil fuel transportation industry. There has to be a massive uprising against this covid nonsense before anything changes. And I don't see that happening in this country anytime soon.

omg. Lol.

[palebird]

Exactly. Have fun out there.

[RRJetPilot]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-add ... -1.1582928

More routes added back on. Who will fly these? I guess they will need the pilots......

[cloak]

There is no doubt that federal government has failed managing the pandemic. While squandering taxpayers money for generations, vaccines order has been a fiasco showing at the same time, greed for ordering so many and incompetence in lack of timeliness. Its insistence to want to deal with communist China the source of the problem, not to mention its existing dubious dealings and corruptions clearly makes it unfit to govern and possibly amount to white collar crime. That incompetence and negligence has not helped industries particularly aviation.

Aside from that and as far as the MOA, a better of course of action would be to extend the existing agreement for 3 months with some minor improvements and then perhaps have another one for the next 3 months with some more improvements until travel picks up measurably likely by the year’s end. Better to deal with the MOA on its own and separately deal with discipline issues. Going forward, the relationship and trust must improve markedly if better contracts are to emerge.

[ALPApolicy]

Aside from that and as far as the MOA, a better of course of action would be to extend the existing agreement for 3 months with some minor improvements and then perhaps have another one for the next 3 months with some more improvements until travel picks up measurably likely by the year’s end.

I think we each support whatever benefits us personally to the greater degree. I'm ok with whatever the MEC decides as long as they follow the procedures as laid down.

[cloak]

Aside from that and as far as the MOA, a better of course of action would be to extend the existing agreement for 3 months with some minor improvements and then perhaps have another one for the next 3 months with some more improvements until travel picks up measurably likely by the year’s end.

I think we each support whatever benefits us personally to the greater degree. I'm ok with whatever the MEC decides as long as they follow the procedures as laid down.

Your presumption is incorrect. It is good logic that after a year in the pandemic when recovery is on the horizon not to cause extra disruption for so many and incur extra cost. So much inconvenience that benefits only a few is against the principle of a “union”. And the point is that it should not be up to a few individuals to determine the fate of all. With today’s technology it takes little time to vote. And any vote is better than none.

[ALPApolicy]

I think we each support whatever benefits us personally to the greater degree. I'm ok with whatever the MEC decides as long as they follow the procedures as laid down.

Your presumption is incorrect. It is good logic that after a year in the pandemic when recovery is on the horizon not to cause extra disruption for so many and incur extra cost. So much inconvenience that benefits only a few is against the principle of a “union”. And the point is that it should not be up to a few individuals to determine the fate of all. With today’s technology it takes little time to vote. And any vote is better than none.

I'm not sure my presumption that people support whatever benefits them the most is incorrect. All people are motivated by self interest.

As far as what a union can or should do, that's all contained in the Canada Labour Code, common law, and ALPA's Constitution & Bylaws. ALPA violated that Constitution when it FORCED the PTA through, which sold out the seniority rights of the junior members. Where was your opposition then, or did the PTA not affect your self interest?

As far as this latest episode, I can't complain because a majority of the pilots chose a system that permitted a few to make decisions for the majority. The people have spoken.

[Blue42]

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-add ... -1.1582928

More routes added back on. Who will fly these? I guess they will need the pilots......

Everyone that is still there, current hours are not even close to the min pay levels....

[CaptainHaddock]

Current hours, no. But all the flying they have announced so far will have the remaining pilots flying full blocks this summer I am guessing. YXX-YYZ?, not sure what the plan is with city pairings like that (have we ever done that?). There is talk by EVP’s of ‘digital alignment’ of the Swoop product at WestJet which certainly peaks my interest (tango airline became an AC fare) or maybe something else. 4 slots a day to Gatwick and now 2 slots a day to Heathrow. It looks like they are planning a full frontal assault-so to carry all the pilots for 12 months (when they didn’t need them) to spooling up (and furloughing) does seem pretty silly.
We now have 6 Dreamliner (and 4 more coming this year) that will need to be crewed, especially if they plan to do anything more exciting then YYC-YYZ.
So half the furloughed pilots sit home with 7-12 years layoff pay and the other half go sit at Encore as imaginary pilots being paid by Encore to sit on their hands. At least the pilots remaining are at full contract pay. It just doesn’t look like a real financial or operational win for the company. Unless they think the recovery will be much longer or they want to give up market share to Flair, AC etc. Keep in mind WJ already reduced the pilot group by almost a third last year, so they have already reduced their pilot pool.

[Blue42]

Current hours, no. But all the flying they have announced so far will have the remaining pilots flying full blocks this summer I am guessing. YXX-YYZ?, not sure what the plan is with city pairings like that (have we ever done that?). There is talk by EVP’s of ‘digital alignment’ of the Swoop product at WestJet which certainly peaks my interest (tango airline became an AC fare) or maybe something else. 4 slots a day to Gatwick and now 2 slots a day to Heathrow. It looks like they are planning a full frontal assault-so to carry all the pilots for 12 months (when they didn’t need them) to spooling up (and furloughing) does seem pretty silly.
We now have 6 Dreamliner (and 4 more coming this year) that will need to be crewed, especially if they plan to do anything more exciting then YYC-YYZ.
So half the furloughed pilots sit home with 7-12 years layoff pay and the other half go sit at Encore as imaginary pilots being paid by Encore to sit on their hands. At least the pilots remaining are at full contract pay. It just doesn’t look like a real financial or operational win for the company. Unless they think the recovery will be much longer or they want to give up market share to Flair, AC etc. Keep in mind WJ already reduced the pilot group by almost a third last year, so they have already reduced their pilot pool.

The majority of the flying announced this week is Q flying, 4 city pairs were on the jet. 1%, maybe 2, of overall flying. All depends what old flying is planned to come back this summer. As for the LHR slots, it’s doubtful the flights will be operated I think. These are adhoc slots that we only hit because of COVID cuts of other airlines. WestJet wants permanent slots not seasonal. I hope I’m wrong but the levels of flying needed to bring back layoffs is still a long ways off.

[cloak]

As far as what a union can or should do, that's all contained in the Canada Labour Code, common law, and ALPA's Constitution & Bylaws. ALPA violated that Constitution when it FORCED the PTA through, which sold out the seniority rights of the junior members. Where was your opposition then, or did the PTA not affect your self interest?....

Oh dear more presumptions about my self interests! The PTA was never a good idea. The three parties that entered it: WestJet, its pilots and Encore pilots did so for different reasons or self interests as you like to say, and ALL are unhappy with its ramifications now. Like the stock market everyone is happy to buy into it when things were moving up, but in the decline everyone is unhappy! If no one else is doing it, there usually are good reasons!

As for the current situation, not extending a form of the existing MOA as you say for self interests or out of spite for actions of some members is a similar mistake that will cost all parties involved more headache. That is all. Have a nice week end!

[CaptainHaddock]

Current hours, no. But all the flying they have announced so far will have the remaining pilots flying full blocks this summer I am guessing. YXX-YYZ?, not sure what the plan is with city pairings like that (have we ever done that?). There is talk by EVP’s of ‘digital alignment’ of the Swoop product at WestJet which certainly peaks my interest (tango airline became an AC fare) or maybe something else. 4 slots a day to Gatwick and now 2 slots a day to Heathrow. It looks like they are planning a full frontal assault-so to carry all the pilots for 12 months (when they didn’t need them) to spooling up (and furloughing) does seem pretty silly.
We now have 6 Dreamliner (and 4 more coming this year) that will need to be crewed, especially if they plan to do anything more exciting then YYC-YYZ.
So half the furloughed pilots sit home with 7-12 years layoff pay and the other half go sit at Encore as imaginary pilots being paid by Encore to sit on their hands. At least the pilots remaining are at full contract pay. It just doesn’t look like a real financial or operational win for the company. Unless they think the recovery will be much longer or they want to give up market share to Flair, AC etc. Keep in mind WJ already reduced the pilot group by almost a third last year, so they have already reduced their pilot pool.

The majority of the flying announced this week is Q flying, 4 city pairs were on the jet. 1%, maybe 2, of overall flying. All depends what old flying is planned to come back this summer. As for the LHR slots, it’s doubtful the flights will be operated I think. These are adhoc slots that we only hit because of COVID cuts of other airlines. WestJet wants permanent slots not seasonal. I hope I’m wrong but the levels of flying needed to bring back layoffs is still a long ways off.

They plan on flying all previous 42 domestic destinations this summer, but you are correct as to what the frequency will be is yet to be seen. The US border/flying also is yet to be decided. I still think it silly to carry 2/3rds of the pilots through the worst of it to shed more at the rebound. It will all come out in the wash I am sure.

[Launchpad1]

For us furloughed guys does anyone know if we keep our flight benefits after March 31st?

[George Taylor]

For us furloughed guys does anyone know if we keep our flight benefits after March 31st?

NOPE

[pacman007]

Why would anyone take a furlough if they had a option to go to encore? You would have health benefits LTD STD and flight benefits?

[Yycjetdriver]

Why would anyone take a furlough if they had a option to go to encore? You would have health benefits LTD STD and flight benefits?

Troll

[Dias]

What happened? Was the company bluffing?

[chromeuser]

Just curious to know why the NC rejected the latest deal offered by the company?

[fish4life]

Just curious to know why the NC rejected the latest deal offered by the company?

Probably the same reason why I don’t sell everything on Kijiji, not good enough

[throwaway123]

Just curious to know why the NC rejected the latest deal offered by the company?

Because sometimes you need to stand firm even if it hurts you in the short term.

Long term, it sends a message to WestJet that the pilots aren't going to be walked over and next time they go to negotiate the company will know that they are willing walk away if need be. Covid will be done and dusted in a year, and any contractual losses are forever.

I wish ACPA did that from time to time. The pilots need to be protected from themselves now and again, the AC Cargo LOU is an example of that. Should have never made it to a vote with a 10% discounted wage. Why the @#$! we were negotiating permanent contract changes during the worst crisis in our industry in decades is beyond me.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Why would anyone take a furlough if they had a option to go to encore? You would have health benefits LTD STD and flight benefits?

Troll

No, that is a valid question.

Here I am, a furloughed Encore pilot, reading that Encore is too shit for some of you jet folks.

But then again, you're just pissed that our MEC has fought for our jobs whereas your MEC made a unanimous decision without consulting those who would be affected.

[betster]

It's not really anyone's business why someone would take a furlough over encore but some reasons include : not being able to uproot family for what is hopefully a short term situation, not being able to afford the hotels required for commuting, weighing the costs of being put in year one FO salary vs CEWS and not comming out far enough ahead, just plain not wanting to. There are many reasons why someone would rather a furlough. Maybe focus on your own situation. Nobody is happy now (except maybe the top senior people that kept their position and got a full snap back). Even they might be missing the good old days of overtime and dropping pairings.

[jazzyboy]

Why would anyone take a furlough if they had a option to go to encore? You would have health benefits LTD STD and flight benefits?

Troll

No, that is a valid question.

Here I am, a furloughed Encore pilot, reading that Encore is too shit for some of you jet folks.

But then again, you're just pissed that our MEC has fought for our jobs whereas your MEC made a unanimous decision without consulting those who would be affected.

No one should have to defend the career decisions that they make for their families or themselves but here it goes. You really need to redirect your anger man....or just get over it. Cause here I am, a furloughed WestJet pilot as of this morning. IT SUCKS!! But it is seniority and it's great when you have it and sucks when you don't. Your attitude comes across that you are upset because I decided to take a lay off instead of bumping another Encore pilot from their job. It must be because I am just too good to fly for encore.....COME ON. No one is out to screw you over. My decision doesn't have anything remotely to do with Encore being "too shit". I think flying the Q400 would be a blast, but there are other things in life besides flying and I am going to take advantage of the time off and lay off pay. I really hoped that there would be another MOA going forward. Am I mad at ALPA for giving up my job? Yes. The way everything this last month played out is pathetic but it is what it is. It will take some time to come to terms with the fact that getting a recall will most likely be for Swoop initially. But I can say after some time that I am happy ALPA finally took a stand against WestJet. For the last 5 ish years they have been walking all over the employee groups and maybe it is short term pain for long term gain. Let's just hope for a recovery for aviation this summer/fall and that we still have airlines to work at. Attacking your fellow pilots does not help.