Summit Air position

[‘Bob’]

See, no offense at all, but that's the crab in the bucket mentality that keep us where we are.
I also take digs at most employers that pay a pilot less than what a full-time laborer would make in the same position. Every bit helps IMO.

Pithy metaphors aside, if you think making comments on this website is making one iota of difference you are delusional in the extreme. You say you've been fighting this righteous fight for 10 years now. How many pilot in waiting positions have you prevented in that time with your brave stance on the topic? It's a load of horse shit. If you really want to improve the lot of no time pilots, start an air service and fill the seats with them. Take a risk. But don't congratulate yourself for being the change you want to see in the world because you quit a job once and typed some shit on the internet about it after.
And for the record, my comment had nothing to do with PIW positions at all. Because I don't care one way or the other. But it's painful to watch someone patting themselves on the back for making uninformed comments on an anonymous internet forum and then try to frame it as though they're some hero standing up for the vulnerable. Talk is cheap. Typing is even cheaper.

The change is external, not internal. And during the shortage it was a time of reckoning as these northern operators were deprived of their cheap and willing labour because they were being thrown right into a Dash-8 after graduation.

They were crying the blues that their essential service couldn’t get the pop and chips to the reserve but only made baby steps in improving the situation.

Sure, economic forces were probably stronger than the ones on this board, but sometimes a push is all it needs.

How many other things have been influenced? Mileage based pay is now almost nonexistent. P2F isn’t around anymore. Money upfront is gone. Bonds are becoming fewer and fewer. Chisel charters and scumbag operators get absolutely roasted. Even a major 705 airline suffered because of threats of blacklisting.

And every single pilot who doesn’t apply because of what they read here is another nail in the coffin for these types of positions.

Maybe Summit is good to their word? Maybe they aren’t. Maybe things change. But maybe you wouldn’t have to worry about any of that if you just got a flying job in the first place.

[mmm..bacon]

Heh! Pot: Stirred.

[Loon-A-Tic]

Heh! Pot: Stirred.

DICKHEAD

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Chisel charters and scumbag operators get absolutely roasted.

Forgive my ignorance - I've seen the term a few times - what is a "chisel charter"?

[Zaibatsu]

Heh! Pot: Stirred.

DICKHEAD

Why? For calling a spade a spade?

Pilot in waiting positions are bullshit.

[digits_]

Chisel charters and scumbag operators get absolutely roasted.

Forgive my ignorance - I've seen the term a few times - what is a "chisel charter"?

An illegal charter. Usually an airplane owner flying paying passengers around without the proper AOC or license.

[shimmydampner]

But maybe you wouldn’t have to worry about any of that if you just got a flying job in the first place.

Well that much we can agree on. However, given that PIW positions ultimately exist because supply is significantly greater than demand, maybe these glorious internet heroes of Canadian aviation should divert their attention to discouraging wannabes from pursuing a CPL to stem the flow of pilot supply if they really want to make a change in this area. Ignorantly "roasting" companies anonymously online may be a sad form of self gratification for some, but it does nothing to attack the root of the problem they are congratulating themselves for trying to solve.

[DanWEC]

If you really want to improve the lot of no time pilots, start an air service and fill the seats with them.

You're right. That's a much more reasonable solution than allowing someone to voice their own convictions....ahem.

I don't know about the other guy, but I know for a fact I've dissuaded many newbies from ground positions and proudly watched them all succeed. I'd say that carries a lot more weight than just flinging shit. I might not change the world on my own but it's magnitudes more than sitting around decrying someone else's values. Momentum sometime gathers slowly. Could I quantify my impact on the industry as a whole? Might not be more then an infinitesimal fraction, but it's something.

I get what you're saying man, we're on the same side, but at the same time a guy can disagree with the institution without a precondition to lead the coup.

[mmm..bacon]

Heh! Pot: Stirred.

DICKHEAD

Hey, man..you took the bait.
SUCKER

[‘Bob’]

But maybe you wouldn’t have to worry about any of that if you just got a flying job in the first place.

Well that much we can agree on. However, given that PIW positions ultimately exist because supply is significantly greater than demand, maybe these glorious internet heroes of Canadian aviation should divert their attention to discouraging wannabes from pursuing a CPL to stem the flow of pilot supply if they really want to make a change in this area. Ignorantly "roasting" companies anonymously online may be a sad form of self gratification for some, but it does nothing to attack the root of the problem they are congratulating themselves for trying to solve.

Why do I need to divert my attention? This is a multi front assault

My kids are fully inoculated from the aviation bug. I give the cold hard truth to anyone who asks me about it. Maybe not so much when I was an instructor, but I haven’t done that in years.

Thing is, the shortage is coming again. COVID won’t last forever and it will have thinned out the ranks.

Aviation is so fickle and so is just about everyone in it. Two years ago it was a seller’s market. Now it’s a buyer’s one. And companies just can’t wait to turn the clock back to 2002 in WAWCON.

But we mustn’t let them.

[Loon-A-Tic]

Heh! Pot: Stirred.

DICKHEAD

Hey, man..you took the bait.
SUCKER

So I'm guilty of being a bit gullible, I'll take the hit. You just flushed your 20+ years of infinite wisdom, flushed it down the toilet and will remain now and forever a DH

[Needswork2020]

Last "Pilot in Waiting" I knew was in the right seat of my A320 with 280 hrs total time.

The world doesn't pull this bullh*t on jr. pilots.
That is left for Canada; we excel at not supporting each other.

Gentleman, leave when you can. You'll find some really cool people out there in the big blue sky! (Not the Australians)

[igorcanuck]

I guess we have our answer. They’ve just posted a Dash 8 FO position requiring a valid PPC on type.
The pilot in waiting will keep waiting...

[propfeather]

If I were in the early stages of my career, knowing what I know now, I'd jump on this. Oh, and go get a shot as soon as you qualify.

The multiple former Summit employees I know do not concur with this.
I'm sure it's a great place to be a skipper but there's better options out there for a 250hr newb.

[throwaway123]

Aviation is so fickle and so is just about everyone in it. Two years ago it was a seller’s market. Now it’s a buyer’s one. And companies just can’t wait to turn the clock back to 2002 in WAWCON.

As an AC pilot, I'd give up my left nut to go back to 2002 WAWCON. Seriously.

[‘Bob’]

Aviation is so fickle and so is just about everyone in it. Two years ago it was a seller’s market. Now it’s a buyer’s one. And companies just can’t wait to turn the clock back to 2002 in WAWCON.

As an AC pilot, I'd give up my left nut to go back to 2002 WAWCON. Seriously.

As an AC pilot, going to 2002 Air Canada ramp wages? Sold!

Because that’s what this is about, entry level jobs.. not guys at a flag carrier making bank while the company was posting record losses from buying CDN, 9/11, and trying to stave off an ONEX bid and two years away from bankruptcy with layoffs and rollbacks.