Competing Union

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Which one of you doorknobs decided that you were going to try to split a wedge in the pilot group?

http://unitedpilotsofwestjet.ca

[160tonoaha]

At least their video on the website is of an Air Canada Embraer. Is that what they meant by United? Let's shoot for AC standards?

[flying4dollars]

At least their video on the website is of an Air Canada Embraer. Is that what they meant by United? Let's shoot for AC standards?

How can you possibly tell what airline owns that Embraer?

[rudder]

Is that UPW or WJPA?

Open period for representation is 90 days prior to contract expiry. When will that be?

[Yycjetdriver]

Which one of you doorknobs decided that you were going to try to split a wedge in the pilot group?

http://unitedpilotsofwestjet.ca

Doesn’t take a genius to figure it out, the names of the “steering committee” are right there on that website.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Which one of you doorknobs decided that you were going to try to split a wedge in the pilot group?

http://unitedpilotsofwestjet.ca

Doesn’t take a genius to figure it out, the names of the “steering committee” are right there on that website.

It goes to show that I'm no genius.

[DouglasPenner]

Which one of you doorknobs decided that you were going to try to split a wedge in the pilot group?

http://unitedpilotsofwestjet.ca

This is an absolute great Idea. $#!T can ALPA and form a useful union. One where all your dues goes to that pilot group. Forget about Mother Alpa in America who could care less what happens to you.

[hurtin'albertan]

Which one of you doorknobs decided that you were going to try to split a wedge in the pilot group?

http://unitedpilotsofwestjet.ca

This is an absolute great Idea. $#!T can ALPA and form a useful union. One where all your dues goes to that pilot group. Forget about Mother Alpa in America who could care less what happens to you.

LOL. You have no clue how ALPA works. "Mother ALPA" has spent millions on WJ pilots in the past 4 years, much more than we have put in. Our union is WJ pilots, not some overlord in Herndon. We access a pool of resources called ALPA, but the way we run the local association is entirely up to us. ALPA staff may provide guidance and advice but they don't call the shots. Misinformation and blaming some "American bogeyman" is a great tactic for the decert crowd tho.

Going independent with this clownshow of a UPforW will not change anything in a positive way. You'll just end up having these former WJPA anti union guys trying to run the show on a shoestring budget (but of course collecting their $25k or $125/day bonus salaries) and starting from square one.

If they are really interested in helping our pilots, why don't they run for a position with ALPA? Or even sign a frickin' card. I see names there that I KNOW haven't signed an ALPA card to this day.

As one of the more "popular" guys on the the steering committee would say "it's interesting" and not hard to see thru this obvious attempt at driving a wedge in our pilot group at a vulnerable time. This will accomplish the exact opposite of what they say they are trying to do, which is help WJ pilots. They are just gonna hurt us with this BS.

No thanks.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Which one of you doorknobs decided that you were going to try to split a wedge in the pilot group?

http://unitedpilotsofwestjet.ca

This is an absolute great Idea. $#!T can ALPA and form a useful union. One where all your dues goes to that pilot group. Forget about Mother Alpa in America who could care less what happens to you.

LOL. You have no clue how ALPA works. "Mother ALPA" has spent millions on WJ pilots in the past 4 years, much more than we have put in. Our union is WJ pilots, not some overlord in Herndon. We access a pool of resources called ALPA, but the way we run the local association is entirely up to us. ALPA staff may provide guidance and advice but they don't call the shots. Misinformation and blaming some "American bogeyman" is a great tactic for the decert crowd tho.

Going independent with this clownshow of a UPforW will not change anything in a positive way. You'll just end up having these former WJPA anti union guys trying to run the show on a shoestring budget (but of course collecting their $25k or $125/day bonus salaries) and starting from square one.

If they are really interested in helping our pilots, why don't they run for a position with ALPA? Or even sign a frickin' card. I see names there that I KNOW haven't signed an ALPA card to this day.

As one of the more "popular" guys on the the steering committee would say "it's interesting" and not hard to see thru this obvious attempt at driving a wedge in our pilot group at a vulnerable time. This will accomplish the exact opposite of what they say they are trying to do, which is help WJ pilots. They are just gonna hurt us with this BS.

No thanks.

Amen.

I have nothing but praise and admiration for ALPA and our LEC/MECs.

During my layoff, I've picked up a few jobs, one of which forced us into Teamsters membership. That union is absolute garbage and did nothing about the company firing me for filing a grievance for the company withholding pay. They got me and the rest of the employees the pay that we were entitled to by federal law, but I also got a pink slip.

Keep that in mind when you start hating ALPA for not getting your per diem in CAD or the schedule release brought forward from the 21st to the 20th.

[B4NE1]

Keep dreaming you WJPA boot licking work weasels.

Your agenda is showing.

[doiwannabeapilot]

all Canadian pilots should be represented under one umbrella.

college of pilots ?

the above is sarcasm. fyi.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

I'm not sure if I understand the boot licking reference or the one umbrella reference (the Blue Rodeo concert tonight left me inebriated), but I support the outliers opinions when it comes to a dissenting view on ALPA, even though I am a vocal supporter of the WJAMEC and WENMEC.

[lostaviator]

The names on that list aren’t surprising and are the reason I will not even consider such a change. They had their chance and look where we are now. The only thing more inflated than the “benefit of working with the company” theory is the ego of said individuals.

It’s interesting to see “united” referenced so many times. That group has done nothing but divide over the last 4 years.

[ALPApolicy]

I have spoken to two members of the steering committee, and I understand their reasons. I respect their right to pursue a different course than mainline pilots are currently on.

At this point, the UPW doesn't interest me. I suppose that could change, but it's statistically unlikely. I'm not unhappy in life and therefore I'm not looking to make a lot of changes. I'm not looking forward to the drama associated with an attempted raid on ALPA, but I also don't need to participate by getting involved in conversations for or against.

Covid has shown me that there is so much more to life than things having to do with work. Work is boring.

Anyway, it is an uphill battle for the UPW supporters. I'm amazed they have that much stomach for the fight.

Cheers to you all.

Smegma John

[CaptainHaddock]

I would not be surprised at all if they have company funding somewhere in behind them, senior guys that want to bring back the past. I too miss parts of the past, but we are not WJ anymore, we are a division of Onex. That was made abundantly clear with the terminating (not lay off) of basically any non-unionized employee group over the past year. ALPA works as well as the people in it, as was shown with the past MOA failure. I shudder to think how the past two years would have gone under the WJPA, with the purchase and pandemic.
I think personally, the posturing and failure of the past MOA by the LEC members was foolish, as it $ hooped everybody except the most senior. Anything put away for possible Swoop contract strikes is now spent on guys/gals treading water waiting for recalls, not to mention all the base changes, commuting, and equipment changes for pilots and the company. The contract negots would have been a much wiser place for all the posturing. But the WJAP/UPW is definitely not going to serve the pilots of WestJet in anyway productive.

[Dionysus]

If anything it shows the level of discontent within the group. Has alpa been great? Nope. That’s for sure and the rotation of leadership in the lec is a joke at best. Not on one side or the other. The amount of grievances are expensive but they are only a result of the contract we or us or our negotiations committee or the arbitrator put in place. Now we got a pile of hot head lec leaders which will be the next joke. IMHO. Head down looking out only for me.

[ALPApolicy]

If anything it shows the level of discontent within the group. Has alpa been great? Nope. That’s for sure and the rotation of leadership in the lec is a joke at best. Not on one side or the other. The amount of grievances are expensive but they are only a result of the contract we or us or our negotiations committee or the arbitrator put in place. Now we got a pile of hot head lec leaders which will be the next joke. IMHO. Head down looking out only for me.

I am not sure that I agree with your reasoning in the first sentence. I don’t think any of the names on the list would take issue with my characterization that most, if not all, were either lukewarm supporters or did not join ALPA at all. The fact that these specific people chose to support a challenger union tells me only that they have not changed their opinion of ALPA from the date of certification. It is nothing against them, they are entitled to their opinion. At this point, I support ALPA because I believe they need another contract negotiation or two to fully show what they are capable of in terms of bringing better working conditions to the pilots in an ever changing economic environment.

In my opinion, it is about 6 to 7 years too early to begin considering a change from our current representation.

[fish4life]

If anything it shows the level of discontent within the group. Has alpa been great? Nope. That’s for sure and the rotation of leadership in the lec is a joke at best. Not on one side or the other. The amount of grievances are expensive but they are only a result of the contract we or us or our negotiations committee or the arbitrator put in place. Now we got a pile of hot head lec leaders which will be the next joke. IMHO. Head down looking out only for me.

Aren’t reps voted in by the pilots? Would this new union not allow the same reps to be voted in?

[lostaviator]

If anything it shows the level of discontent within the group. Has alpa been great? Nope. That’s for sure and the rotation of leadership in the lec is a joke at best. Not on one side or the other. The amount of grievances are expensive but they are only a result of the contract we or us or our negotiations committee or the arbitrator put in place. Now we got a pile of hot head lec leaders which will be the next joke. IMHO. Head down looking out only for me.

Aren’t reps voted in by the pilots? Would this new union not allow the same reps to be voted in?

I think that would depend on the structure of the new union in their constitution. Many of our pilots still can’t wrap their head around the fact they don’t vote for the MEC.

John, I’ve never agreed with you more. Thank you for such a thoughtful answer. This group will never achieve anything if we keep tossing representation aside before giving them a few contracts to work things out.

[WestJet Puke]

If anything it shows the level of discontent within the group. Has alpa been great? Nope. That’s for sure and the rotation of leadership in the lec is a joke at best. Not on one side or the other. The amount of grievances are expensive but they are only a result of the contract we or us or our negotiations committee or the arbitrator put in place. Now we got a pile of hot head lec leaders which will be the next joke. IMHO. Head down looking out only for me.

Aren’t reps voted in by the pilots? Would this new union not allow the same reps to be voted in?

I think that would depend on the structure of the new union in their constitution. Many of our pilots still can’t wrap their head around the fact they don’t vote for the MEC.

John, I’ve never agreed with you more. Thank you for such a thoughtful answer. This group will never achieve anything if we keep tossing representation aside before giving them a few contracts to work things out.

+1

John - very thoughtful perspective.

[Dionysus]

Another issue within itself when it comes to “voting the reps” is Just the pure lack of engagement. Nobody’s fault but our own. Sideline chat groups with no real information or lobbying to the “whole group”. It’s a joke. Then we get the reps we deserve. Far away base rep guys boasting about using all their sick days and not having to commute and now in status positions due to a chat group and low voter turnout. If the rumblings are true about the new mec chair… speechless.

[YC87DRVR]

One possible theory I’ve heard is the 26 on the steering committee know they’re becoming a large minority in the group, yet want to have the majority of the influence and “steering” then direction of the entire group.
With 4-2 vote that turned into a NO vote on the latest MOA, that benefited the majority of the steering committee members and returned them to normal pay while a large number was laid off. There was outrage among a large number of union brothers and sister they didn’t even have the chance to vote.
It’s not hard to imagine they see now as their opportunity to grab power, while the group/base with the greatest numbers has little to no say, as they are reduced/furloughed. It’s also probably safe to assume they know that large number of pilots that were bumped/furloughed with the failure of the last MOA will have long memories and use that knowledge when voting in the future and are trying to grab power to avoid that situation.
Just my 0.02c

[lostaviator]

They say that companies get the union they deserve. The same can be said about the employee group. Until this group learns the world isn’t run on telegram, we are (insert word that rhymes with ducked).

The funny thing is, these pilots are so blinded by their hatred of ALPA they don’t see the obvious solution right in front of them - Get involved in the system we have!

Their proposed union dues aren’t even that much of an improvement.

[WestJet Puke]

They say that companies get the union they deserve. The same can be said about the employee group. Until this group learns the world isn’t run on telegram, we are (insert word that rhymes with ducked).

The funny thing is, these pilots are so blinded by their hatred of ALPA they don’t see the obvious solution right in front of them - Get involved in the system we have!

Truest words ever on AvCanada.

[Dionysus]

So why the hatred? Ask that question first but honestly there has been no time to with the struggles of the LEC’s the constant turn over of committees, the turnover of the MEC, the recalls, the lack of information and the guys who love hearing themselves on the telegram chats stressed out! Why would anyone get involved? It’s too bad big alpa didn’t step in and fix this line it was rumoured. I can’t remember…was that rumour even true? See what I mean? So is Steve W the rumour for the MEC too? Man.