No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

[airway]

In 1995 an A320 CA made $235.29 half day, half night(4). Inflation adjusted that works out to $368.18 in 2020 dollars. What is the Air Canada a320 pay rate for 2020? $224.27/hr. That is a 39% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA. (my edit to add LOU74 Rouge 319 is even less!)

In 1995 a 767CA made $249.46/hr(4). Inflation adjusted to 2020 that is $390.35/hr. What is the current Air Canada 767CA rate for 2020? $257.89/hour. Cargo $232.10/hour. That is respectively a 34% and 41% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA. (my edit to add LOU74 Rouge 767 is even less!)

Wow, that's not good.

[altiplano]

Wow, that's not good.

Understatement!

[acpaleaks]

I hope the P4C people put out more wage comparisons. This seems to be the only way to get some of the senior pilots to open their eyes, I think many really don't actually understand how far we've fallen over the last 25 years... And just comparing to OURSELVES!

[acpaleaks]

And you KNOW that ACPA isn't doing these calculations and comparisons. Even though that's their job, in order to prepare properly for negotiations. Instead we get people like EH on the negots committee trying to preach the most ridiculous Stockholm Syndrome comments on the AC forum about "robbing peter to pay paul" or "we only get X amount of money for wages and how we spend it is up to us"... like @#$!, if these are the people we have negotiating for us better keep your expectations pretty damn low. Those comments are so inherently false it makes me want to vomit.

ACPA won't make a contract comparison against USA carriers or even us 20 years ago because it would show how absolutely useless ACPA has been to protect our WAWCON that time, and if published to the members then the members might actually wake up. And then bye bye DSC full release for Mr MM, BM, QJ, RW etc. since they are all the ones who have been around for the last 5-10 years in leadership.

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

Forget cost neutral based bargaining. Its time we get back what we have pi$$ed away over the last 20 years. Come negotiation time I hope everybody can muster up the courage to set that PARK BRAKE. The only way we start leading this industry is if we use what leverage we have (JOB ACTION). Without us nothing moves nobody gets paid.

Until we have enough unity to put our foot down nothing will change. We will continue to be walked all over for the next decade.

[acpaleaks]

Forget cost neutral based bargaining. Its time we get back what we have pi$$ed away over the last 20 years. Come negotiation time I hope everybody can muster up the courage to set that PARK BRAKE. The only way we start leading this industry is if we use what leverage we have (JOB ACTION). Without us nothing moves nobody gets paid.

Until we have enough unity to put our foot down nothing will change. We will continue to be walked all over for the next decade.

And until we get people in the Union who believe we can! Current group it ain't happening. And ACPA needs to do a better job raising pilot expectations instead of keeping them down. I heard a pilot was called by a rep once after they posted on the AC forum that multiple FedEx pilots made over a million. Was told to not post that because it would give unrealistic expectations to our pilots. That's exactly what we need!

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Forget cost neutral based bargaining. Its time we get back what we have pi$$ed away over the last 20 years. Come negotiation time I hope everybody can muster up the courage to set that PARK BRAKE. The only way we start leading this industry is if we use what leverage we have (JOB ACTION). Without us nothing moves nobody gets paid.

Until we have enough unity to put our foot down nothing will change. We will continue to be walked all over for the next decade.

And until we get people in the Union who believe we can! Current group it ain't happening. And ACPA needs to do a better job raising pilot expectations instead of keeping them down. I heard a pilot was called by a rep once after they posted on the AC forum that multiple FedEx pilots made over a million. Was told to not post that because it would give unrealistic expectations to our pilots. That's exactly what we need!

Let's do some quick math here...

We can no longer more than 1000 hours per year. We cannot fly more than 112 hours in 28 days. Let's assume that we max out the 28 day maximum and then fly mmg the rest of the year (that way we can max out OT).

We can do eight months of 112 hours per month and one month at 104. The rest of the year would need to be vacation, likely paid out at MMG.

If we assume OT kicks in above 85 hours, we have 27 hours at a time and a half.

With those assumptions, one would have to make an average of $895 per hour (with per diem and other bonuses averaged in).

I don't see a way that any average pilot not taking on additional work outside of flying would come close to making anywhere near $1mil per year.



I would love to be proven wrong and will gladly eat my words if that happens.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Forget cost neutral based bargaining. Its time we get back what we have pi$$ed away over the last 20 years. Come negotiation time I hope everybody can muster up the courage to set that PARK BRAKE. The only way we start leading this industry is if we use what leverage we have (JOB ACTION). Without us nothing moves nobody gets paid.

Until we have enough unity to put our foot down nothing will change. We will continue to be walked all over for the next decade.

And until we get people in the Union who believe we can! Current group it ain't happening. And ACPA needs to do a better job raising pilot expectations instead of keeping them down. I heard a pilot was called by a rep once after they posted on the AC forum that multiple FedEx pilots made over a million. Was told to not post that because it would give unrealistic expectations to our pilots. That's exactly what we need!

Let's do some quick math here...

We can no longer more than 1000 hours per year. We cannot fly more than 112 hours in 28 days. Let's assume that we max out the 28 day maximum and then fly mmg the rest of the year (that way we can max out OT).

We can do eight months of 112 hours per month and one month at 104. The rest of the year would need to be vacation, likely paid out at MMG.

If we assume OT kicks in above 85 hours, we have 27 hours at a time and a half.

With those assumptions, one would have to make an average of $895 per hour (with per diem and other bonuses averaged in).

I don't see a way that any average pilot not taking on additional work outside of flying would come close to making anywhere near $1mil per year.



I would love to be proven wrong and will gladly eat my words if that happens.

For the record, I do believe that a widebody captain who has spent forty years at one company should be able to make nearly that amount.

[acpaleaks]

Forget cost neutral based bargaining. Its time we get back what we have pi$$ed away over the last 20 years. Come negotiation time I hope everybody can muster up the courage to set that PARK BRAKE. The only way we start leading this industry is if we use what leverage we have (JOB ACTION). Without us nothing moves nobody gets paid.

Until we have enough unity to put our foot down nothing will change. We will continue to be walked all over for the next decade.

And until we get people in the Union who believe we can! Current group it ain't happening. And ACPA needs to do a better job raising pilot expectations instead of keeping them down. I heard a pilot was called by a rep once after they posted on the AC forum that multiple FedEx pilots made over a million. Was told to not post that because it would give unrealistic expectations to our pilots. That's exactly what we need!

Let's do some quick math here...

We can no longer more than 1000 hours per year. We cannot fly more than 112 hours in 28 days. Let's assume that we max out the 28 day maximum and then fly mmg the rest of the year (that way we can max out OT).

We can do eight months of 112 hours per month and one month at 104. The rest of the year would need to be vacation, likely paid out at MMG.

If we assume OT kicks in above 85 hours, we have 27 hours at a time and a half.

With those assumptions, one would have to make an average of $895 per hour (with per diem and other bonuses averaged in).

I don't see a way that any average pilot not taking on additional work outside of flying would come close to making anywhere near $1mil per year.



I would love to be proven wrong and will gladly eat my words if that happens.

Oh I don't for a second think we'd ever make that much. And that is with a ton of OT/Draft for those FedEx guys.

But it just starts the conversation showing how drastic the difference can be. Hell, MOST of the legacy WB Captains are probably making 400k+. WB FOs more than our WB CAs.

It's really just to have a conversation.

[acpaleaks]

And until we get people in the Union who believe we can! Current group it ain't happening. And ACPA needs to do a better job raising pilot expectations instead of keeping them down. I heard a pilot was called by a rep once after they posted on the AC forum that multiple FedEx pilots made over a million. Was told to not post that because it would give unrealistic expectations to our pilots. That's exactly what we need!

Let's do some quick math here...

We can no longer more than 1000 hours per year. We cannot fly more than 112 hours in 28 days. Let's assume that we max out the 28 day maximum and then fly mmg the rest of the year (that way we can max out OT).

We can do eight months of 112 hours per month and one month at 104. The rest of the year would need to be vacation, likely paid out at MMG.

If we assume OT kicks in above 85 hours, we have 27 hours at a time and a half.

With those assumptions, one would have to make an average of $895 per hour (with per diem and other bonuses averaged in).

I don't see a way that any average pilot not taking on additional work outside of flying would come close to making anywhere near $1mil per year.



I would love to be proven wrong and will gladly eat my words if that happens.

For the record, I do believe that a widebody captain who has spent forty years at one company should be able to make nearly that amount.

I agree, and people with 10+ years into the industry (most new hires at AC and WJ) should IMO make at least six figures.

I am dreaming, but an immediate 30% raise across the board similar to what the American carriers had a few years ago would bring us right to around where we should be based on the lack of improvements over the last 25 years.

That would put new hires closer to that 80k mark, and top WB CAs near the upper 300's. And our NB CAs more in line with the USA (although still not factoring currency adjustment, which is a hard argument to make since we buy things in CAD)

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Let's do some quick math here...

We can no longer more than 1000 hours per year. We cannot fly more than 112 hours in 28 days. Let's assume that we max out the 28 day maximum and then fly mmg the rest of the year (that way we can max out OT).

We can do eight months of 112 hours per month and one month at 104. The rest of the year would need to be vacation, likely paid out at MMG.

If we assume OT kicks in above 85 hours, we have 27 hours at a time and a half.

With those assumptions, one would have to make an average of $895 per hour (with per diem and other bonuses averaged in).

I don't see a way that any average pilot not taking on additional work outside of flying would come close to making anywhere near $1mil per year.



I would love to be proven wrong and will gladly eat my words if that happens.

For the record, I do believe that a widebody captain who has spent forty years at one company should be able to make nearly that amount.

I agree, and people with 10+ years into the industry (most new hires at AC and WJ) should IMO make at least six figures.

I am dreaming, but an immediate 30% raise across the board similar to what the American carriers had a few years ago would bring us right to around where we should be based on the lack of improvements over the last 25 years.

That would put new hires closer to that 80k mark, and top WB CAs near the upper 300's. And our NB CAs more in line with the USA (although still not factoring currency adjustment, which is a hard argument to make since we buy things in CAD)

If I was an AC employee and you were running for a union position, I would strongly consider voting for you.

Be the change. Make a difference.

[link821]

And then how does that compare to the rest of the world? Executives? Professionals? Politicians? Military? Minimum wage?

I saw this recently...

ACPA wage to inflation comparison.png

Like if the above hard numbers aren't enough to say WTF is ACPA doing here? Maybe you can visualize it now.

Maybe some guys just don't know where we were, how far we have fallen...

320 CA 2001 $259
320 CA 2021 $228

767 CA 2001 $285
767 CA 2021 $262

777 CA 2001 $345
778 CA 2021 $311

Looking at that now... it's even worse than I thought. Tack on 40% inflation! Those are real numbers, not adjusted.

WAKE THE F- UP!

On top of that working conditions gutted, pension gutted, lost indexing, higher contributions, worse scheduling rules, worse equipment bidding rules, on and on the concessions go.

And the "silent majority" apparently supports this? What's your problems? Why is ACPA managing expectations and not educating the membership?

Damn that is disheartening as hell....honest question here, is there any hope for positive change? I just don't understand how something like this can happen, how does the next generation of pilots fix this?

[NotDirty!]

I would suggest in your posts that you stop shilling for management and inept ACPA leadership. The evidence is clear what's happened here in the last 20 years. Take a look around at the waste left behind from ACPA's incompetence. We get paid in inflation adjusted dollars to the tune of 40% less than we did 20 years ago. How do you account for that? On top of that we have lost big time on working conditions and benefits. How do you account for that?

Give your head a shake and get with the reality of the steep slope we're falling down.

According to the Bank of Canada, inflation in the last 20 years has been about 40%. Is your pay the same now compared to 2001?

Just about... even less in some cases, maybe most cases... FOs, RPs, Narrow bodies, 4-year flat...

I'll quote a part of someone's more eloquent analysis from reflecting on ACPA's 25 years on another forum to illustrate where we are:

Here's the highlights though:

In 1995 an A320 CA made $235.29 half day, half night(4). Inflation adjusted that works out to $368.18 in 2020 dollars. What is the Air Canada a320 pay rate for 2020? $224.27/hr. That is a 39% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.

(my edit to add - in 2001 A320 CA paid $259.30, so even worse! and LOU74 Rouge 319 is even less!)

In 1995 a 767CA made $249.46/hr(4). Inflation adjusted to 2020 that is $390.35/hr. What is the current Air Canada 767CA rate for 2020? $257.89/hour. Cargo $232.10/hour. That is respectively a 34% and 41% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.

(my edit to add - in 2001 767CA paid $285.03 so even worse! and LOU74 Rouge 319 is even less!)

We all missed it. Or at least I did. It was November 9, 1995 that the Air Canada pilots left CALPA to go it alone. Wow time flies. 25 years.

I suddenly feel old. It seems like yesterday.

Well it’s customary to look back and self reflect on anniversaries. How has our pilot group fared over the last quarter century with ACPA at the helm? There was a massive hiring spree in the 90’s. A merger in 2000. 911 hammered the industry in 2001. If that wasn’t enough SARS hit in 2003. Then a Pension crisis. Air Canada, American, Delta, Northwest, Continental, US Airways and United all went into bankruptcy protection. Massive pay cuts everywhere. ACPA pilots took 20% cuts. Some cuts in the US were even higher. Pensions lost.

Then in about 2005 things began to recover. Consolidation South of the border and a renewed focus on CASM returned Airlines to profitability. Here at Air Canada we were slow on the refleeting process that focused on CASM but it did begin to get underway around 2012. Air Canada too began its most profitable period ever.

Now on the 25 year anniversary of ACPA’s inception we find ourselves in the middle of a Pandemic.

It’s a useful exercise to compare how we did under ACPA representation through all that mayhem, in comparison to others.

The comparator. There is no standard for this as it seems to ebb and flow depending on the day within our organization. I would argue that in this case it doesn’t matter because we are simply going to use a before and after snapshot. There will be no direct wage comparison.

I chose DELTA. We could easily use United or American but I found more numbers for Delta.

According to MIT the average Delta pilot made $129,315 in 1995(1). By 2016 the number had reached $180,000 according to Delta airlines(2). Subsequent to this the Delta pilots received a 30% pay increase bringing the average pilot salary to $234,000(3). An 80% increase in pay from 1995 to 2020. Sounds good but we need to adjust the 1995 number for inflation to get the real picture. According to a US inflation calculator $129,315 in 1995 is worth $219,607.25 today. Clearly the Delta pilots did pretty good throughout the mayhem of the last 25 years. They didn’t actually make a lot of monetary gains above inflation but still managed to eek out a gain. They get a B+.

United for example had a average salary of $135,728 in 1995(1). As a result they didn’t make any monetary gains however kept up with inflation. They get a B.

The most gains above inflation go to American, but only because their 1995 average salary was lower at $116,470(1). So although percentage wise they made the most gains it’s tough to give them a better grade. I’ll give them a B as well.

Either way all three comparators met, or beat, inflation during the last 25 years.

For Air Canada I don’t have average yearly salaries to compare so I will switch to hourly wages from historic pay scales.


In 1995 an A320 CA made $235.29 half day, half night(4). Inflation adjusted that works out to $368.18 in 2020 dollars. What is the Air Canada a320 pay rate for 2020? $224.27/hr. That is a 39% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.

In 1995 a 767CA made $249.46/hr(4). Inflation adjusted to 2020 that is $390.35/hr. What is the current Air Canada 767CA rate for 2020? $257.89/hour. Cargo $232.10/hour. That is respectively a 34% and 41% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.

What grade would you give ACPA over the last 25 years?

We need change. Real change.

References

(1)MIT Pilot Salary.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2010 ... SONNEL.htm

(2) CNN article from 2016.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/03/29/news/c ... index.html

Delta pilots have an average base pay of $185,000, according to the airline. That's less than the average of $190,000 at Southwest (LUV), $205,000 at American and $209,000 at United.

(3)Delta 30% raise

https://onemileatatime.com/delta-pilot-pay-raise/

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... _air_lines

(4)
55A169B9-50FF-4ADE-B1F2-7128E5904829.jpeg

I don’t disagree with your sentiment, however I seem to recall seeing that table in the past, with an explanation that the numbers were already inflation corrected to 2015 (or so, could be a year or two on either side) dollars. Nonetheless we are paid less now in real dollars than 25 years ago, but it is not as extreme as your post implies.

[a220hereicome]

altiplano.

Sorry, but your numbers are full of s#!t. And not by a little, either.

“I read it on the internet, it must be true.”

I asked an ACPA rep for a digital copy of the 1995-1998 CA.

Pay for a Captain in 1995 was (and still is) the sum of four components:

Base hourly pay, Captain’s pay for type, mileage pay for type, and weight pay for type. I’m reading this right out of the old contract PDF.

April 2, 1995, A320 CA pay was increased to:

$30.17 hourly base pay
$82.33 1/2 DN pay
$12.45 weight pay
$36.12 mileage pay

Total is $161/hour. Not $235/hour. You’re off by, oh, 46%. Rounding error?

Inflation adjusted to 2021, using the Bank of Canada calculator, gives $259/hour.

So yes, our current rate of $229 1/2DN hasn’t kept up with inflation, we’re about 12% behind. The 20% pay cut to the A320 rates in bankruptcy in 2003, followed by a wage freeze until 2010 is the biggest reason for that. We've only clawed back 8% of it. I agree, we need to do better.

And you should try to do better with putting out facts, not bulls#%t.

[Fanblade]

altiplano.

Sorry, but your numbers are full of s#!t. And not by a little, either.

“I read it on the internet, it must be true.”

I asked an ACPA rep for a digital copy of the 1995-1998 CA.

Pay for a Captain in 1995 was (and still is) the sum of four components:

Base hourly pay, Captain’s pay for type, mileage pay for type, and weight pay for type. I’m reading this right out of the old contract PDF.

April 2, 1995, A320 CA pay was increased to:

$30.17 hourly base pay
$82.33 1/2 DN pay
$12.45 weight pay
$36.12 mileage pay

Total is $161/hour. Not $235/hour. You’re off by, oh, 46%. Rounding error?

Inflation adjusted to 2021, using the Bank of Canada calculator, gives $259/hour.

So yes, our current rate of $229 1/2DN hasn’t kept up with inflation, we’re about 12% behind. The 15% pay cut in bankruptcy in 2003 is most of that, but we need to do better.

And you should try to do better with putting out facts, not bullshit.

Why did you pick 1995? It was another low point for AC pilots due to the economy. Furloughs we’re just coming back.

Why didn’t you pick 2003 right before CCAA?

Your also painting BS. The truth is between the two of you.

I’d like to know though. Why the choice to benchmark 1995? The optics are suspicious. Did you purposely choose a low point? Or did someone at ACPA purposely feed you the low point?

[NotDirty!]

altiplano.

Sorry, but your numbers are full of s#!t. And not by a little, either.

“I read it on the internet, it must be true.”

I asked an ACPA rep for a digital copy of the 1995-1998 CA.

Pay for a Captain in 1995 was (and still is) the sum of four components:

Base hourly pay, Captain’s pay for type, mileage pay for type, and weight pay for type. I’m reading this right out of the old contract PDF.

April 2, 1995, A320 CA pay was increased to:

$30.17 hourly base pay
$82.33 1/2 DN pay
$12.45 weight pay
$36.12 mileage pay

Total is $161/hour. Not $235/hour. You’re off by, oh, 46%. Rounding error?

Inflation adjusted to 2021, using the Bank of Canada calculator, gives $259/hour.

So yes, our current rate of $229 1/2DN hasn’t kept up with inflation, we’re about 12% behind. The 15% pay cut in bankruptcy in 2003 is most of that, but we need to do better.

And you should try to do better with putting out facts, not bullshit.

Why did you pick 1995? It was another low point for AC pilots due to the economy. Furloughs we’re just coming back.

Why didn’t you pick 2003 right before CCAA?

Your also painting BS. The truth is between the two of you.

I’d like to know though. Why the choice to benchmark 1995? The optics are suspicious. Did you purposely choose a low point? Or did someone at ACPA purposely feed you the low point?

He probably picked 1995 because that was the year used in Altiplano’s post above.

[a220hereicome]

Fan blade.

I didn’t pick 1995. altiplano did:

“ I'll quote a part of someone's more eloquent analysis from reflecting on ACPA's 25 years on another forum to illustrate where we are:

Here's the highlights though:

In 1995 an A320 CA made $235.29 half day, half night(4). Inflation adjusted that works out to $368.18 in 2020 dollars. What is the Air Canada a320 pay rate for 2020? $224.27/hr. That is a 39% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.”

[Fanblade]

Fan blade.

I didn’t pick 1995. altiplano did:

“ I'll quote a part of someone's more eloquent analysis from reflecting on ACPA's 25 years on another forum to illustrate where we are:

Here's the highlights though:

In 1995 an A320 CA made $235.29 half day, half night(4). Inflation adjusted that works out to $368.18 in 2020 dollars. What is the Air Canada a320 pay rate for 2020? $224.27/hr. That is a 39% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.”

But you are fully aware that the picture you painted is misleading?

Tony's appears to be based on poor info. Yours looks like a deliberate attempt at minimizing ACPA's losses.

If the deliberate wording I am using is misplaced please except my apologies.

The problem is this is ACPA's constant behavior. The gaslighting is endless.

[altiplano]

Just about... even less in some cases, maybe most cases... FOs, RPs, Narrow bodies, 4-year flat...

I'll quote a part of someone's more eloquent analysis from reflecting on ACPA's 25 years on another forum to illustrate where we are:

Here's the highlights though:

In 1995 an A320 CA made $235.29 half day, half night(4). Inflation adjusted that works out to $368.18 in 2020 dollars. What is the Air Canada a320 pay rate for 2020? $224.27/hr. That is a 39% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.

(my edit to add - in 2001 A320 CA paid $259.30, so even worse! and LOU74 Rouge 319 is even less!)

In 1995 a 767CA made $249.46/hr(4). Inflation adjusted to 2020 that is $390.35/hr. What is the current Air Canada 767CA rate for 2020? $257.89/hour. Cargo $232.10/hour. That is respectively a 34% and 41% drop in purchasing power since 1995 and the inception of ACPA.

(my edit to add - in 2001 767CA paid $285.03 so even worse! and LOU74 Rouge 319 is even less!)

I don’t disagree with your sentiment, however I seem to recall seeing that table in the past, with an explanation that the numbers were already inflation corrected to 2015 (or so, could be a year or two on either side) dollars. Nonetheless we are paid less now in real dollars than 25 years ago, but it is not as extreme as your post implies.

I went looking for the 2003 pay table, but I couldn't find it.

i came across the other analysis and table in a post which had to do, and if indeed that is an inflation adjusted wage rate from 6 or 8 years ago, then I will stand corrected, but as far as I can tell it was from a reliable source and I copied his analysis. I did say it was worse than I thought!

That said, even if that wage table is adjusted to 6 or 8 years ago, we're still way behind ourselves, and way way behind our peers.

The other table I posted does show AC320 CA/FO Y12 wages closer to 20% behind inflation adjusted between 2000 and 2020.

And I'm surprised anyone was able to get a copy of the contract from 20-25 years ago as ACPA has gone to pains to scrub pre-FOS contracts and wages away from our website archive, I asked a few years back and I was told pay tables from that era don't exist anymore. If you have a copy, a220shill, why don't you post it right here for all to see?

If anyone has the 2003 pay tables, out them up, let's see. They were on the forum at some point, but I couldn't find them.

'95 I believe was picked because it was the start of ACPA.

And pay aside, can anyone name something better in our contract today vs. 20 years ago? and if so can you place it against the values we have lost?

Not sure why this is posting in bold...

[altiplano]

altiplano.

Sorry, but your numbers are full of s#!t. And not by a little, either.

“I read it on the internet, it must be true.”

I asked an ACPA rep for a digital copy of the 1995-1998 CA.

Pay for a Captain in 1995 was (and still is) the sum of four components:

Base hourly pay, Captain’s pay for type, mileage pay for type, and weight pay for type. I’m reading this right out of the old contract PDF.

April 2, 1995, A320 CA pay was increased to:

$30.17 hourly base pay
$82.33 1/2 DN pay
$12.45 weight pay
$36.12 mileage pay

Total is $161/hour. Not $235/hour. You’re off by, oh, 46%. Rounding error?

Inflation adjusted to 2021, using the Bank of Canada calculator, gives $259/hour.

So yes, our current rate of $229 1/2DN hasn’t kept up with inflation, we’re about 12% behind. The 15% pay cut in bankruptcy in 2003 is most of that, but we need to do better.

And you should try to do better with putting out facts, not bullshit.

See my above post. Post the contract you got.

And if I'm wrong on my numbers/math, I'm still right on the rest of it and we're still way behind...

I'd rather be slightly off than a yellow corporate apologist sychophant.

[airway]

Just for comparison, top scale wide body (15 year) at FedEx is $335 USD, which is $417 CAD.

About $400,000 CAD per year with no OT.




.

[Hangry]

altiplano.

Sorry, but your numbers are full of s#!t. And not by a little, either.

“I read it on the internet, it must be true.”

I asked an ACPA rep for a digital copy of the 1995-1998 CA.

Pay for a Captain in 1995 was (and still is) the sum of four components:

Base hourly pay, Captain’s pay for type, mileage pay for type, and weight pay for type. I’m reading this right out of the old contract PDF.

April 2, 1995, A320 CA pay was increased to:

$30.17 hourly base pay
$82.33 1/2 DN pay
$12.45 weight pay
$36.12 mileage pay

Total is $161/hour. Not $235/hour. You’re off by, oh, 46%. Rounding error?

Inflation adjusted to 2021, using the Bank of Canada calculator, gives $259/hour.

So yes, our current rate of $229 1/2DN hasn’t kept up with inflation, we’re about 12% behind. The 15% pay cut in bankruptcy in 2003 is most of that, but we need to do better.

And you should try to do better with putting out facts, not bullshit.

See my above post. Post the contract you got.

And if I'm wrong on my numbers/math, I'm still right on the rest of it and we're still way behind...

I'd rather be slightly off than a yellow corporate apologist sychophant.

Sycophant? Really?

Ever notice it’s the same 20 guys complaining on one forum. And the same 10 or so on this?

Over and over and over. Echo. Echo. Echo.

There is a reason things pass. Most are very happy. Very very happy.

I guess they’re too stupid to realize how bad it is.

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

altiplano.

Sorry, but your numbers are full of s#!t. And not by a little, either.

“I read it on the internet, it must be true.”

I asked an ACPA rep for a digital copy of the 1995-1998 CA.

Pay for a Captain in 1995 was (and still is) the sum of four components:

Base hourly pay, Captain’s pay for type, mileage pay for type, and weight pay for type. I’m reading this right out of the old contract PDF.

April 2, 1995, A320 CA pay was increased to:

$30.17 hourly base pay
$82.33 1/2 DN pay
$12.45 weight pay
$36.12 mileage pay

Total is $161/hour. Not $235/hour. You’re off by, oh, 46%. Rounding error?

Inflation adjusted to 2021, using the Bank of Canada calculator, gives $259/hour.

So yes, our current rate of $229 1/2DN hasn’t kept up with inflation, we’re about 12% behind. The 15% pay cut in bankruptcy in 2003 is most of that, but we need to do better.

And you should try to do better with putting out facts, not bullshit.

See my above post. Post the contract you got.

And if I'm wrong on my numbers/math, I'm still right on the rest of it and we're still way behind...

I'd rather be slightly off than a yellow corporate apologist sychophant.

Sycophant? Really?

Ever notice it’s the same 20 guys complaining on one forum. And the same 10 or so on this?

Over and over and over. Echo. Echo. Echo.

There is a reason things pass. Most are very happy. Very very happy.

I guess they’re too stupid to realize how bad it is.

Whats so wrong with wanting more? Executives, managers, and shareholders alike demand and recieve more every time we spineless pilots agree to less. Why do we time and time again justify our embarrassing race to the bottom? Grow a pair bud.

[acpaleaks]

altiplano.

Sorry, but your numbers are full of s#!t. And not by a little, either.

“I read it on the internet, it must be true.”

I asked an ACPA rep for a digital copy of the 1995-1998 CA.

Pay for a Captain in 1995 was (and still is) the sum of four components:

Base hourly pay, Captain’s pay for type, mileage pay for type, and weight pay for type. I’m reading this right out of the old contract PDF.

April 2, 1995, A320 CA pay was increased to:

$30.17 hourly base pay
$82.33 1/2 DN pay
$12.45 weight pay
$36.12 mileage pay

Total is $161/hour. Not $235/hour. You’re off by, oh, 46%. Rounding error?

Inflation adjusted to 2021, using the Bank of Canada calculator, gives $259/hour.

So yes, our current rate of $229 1/2DN hasn’t kept up with inflation, we’re about 12% behind. The 15% pay cut in bankruptcy in 2003 is most of that, but we need to do better.

And you should try to do better with putting out facts, not bullshit.

See my above post. Post the contract you got.

And if I'm wrong on my numbers/math, I'm still right on the rest of it and we're still way behind...

I'd rather be slightly off than a yellow corporate apologist sychophant.

Sycophant? Really?

Ever notice it’s the same 20 guys complaining on one forum. And the same 10 or so on this?

Over and over and over. Echo. Echo. Echo.

There is a reason things pass. Most are very happy. Very very happy.

I guess they’re too stupid to realize how bad it is.

Not supid. Just apathetic if they know, but honestly I don't think many actually realize how bad it is compared to 2003. Maybe the P4C newsletter will help a bit.

It's time to raise expectations and stop with the justification. Pilots are quite literally the only unionized group I know of that are just so apathetic to demanding what they're worth.

Working more (draft/VO) is not a raise.

[Fanblade]

.

There is a reason things pass. Most are very happy. Very very happy.

I guess they’re too stupid to realize how bad it is.

They are happy because they don’t realize. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

The real out of touch leadership are those who think the members would be happy if they knew.

It is why most of the leadership is dead quite on any reference of the past. They know full well how bad the picture is