Interest in US airline positions

[C-GGGQ]

Some of the attitudes on this thread are interesting. The self righteous attitude is actually shocking. I’ve been fortunate enough to still be flying all over the world during this pandemic. Canada and Canadian’s in general are a joke. Delusional. You can’t even compare the pay, lifestyle, tax ect to the US. Even if you did land an (over exaggerated) 320 job in butt f@ck nowhere for 60k, wait a couple years and move around.

Dan. Sign me up!

Exactly. Hell my Brother is in Grand Rapids. I’ll take it.

[Xander]

If this is true, it’s a game changer. But I have my doubts.

[Bobevans]

Funny coincidence reading this thread. I’m actually on my way to start ground school tomorrow at Allegiant and will quite possibly be based in Grand Rapids on the 320. Big draw at Allegiant is that you’re home every night and most of the bases are in affordable cities (decent house for under $200k) You won’t be stuck in traffic either, unlike commuting into Toronto from your $800,000 home an hour away. Most F/Os do $120K+ USD in the second year. They have 20 bases and are opening 2 more each year.
I spent 12 years at Canadian regionals and never even cracked $100k CAD even as a captain at SKY. I had an offer at AC in 2017 but chose to go to China instead. I couldn’t stomach the idea of those 4 years of flat pay. I made more in China in a little over two years than I did in Canada in 12 years at Jazz/Sky.
You’ll definitely want a 4 year degree from an accredited US university. I knocked one out online in a year with a lot of transfer credits. Cost me about $6,000.
It’d be nice to see this drive up Canadian wages because they’re pitiful. I have no interest in moving back to Canada though.
My pathway to becoming a US citizen was family based and took 20 years so no point in discussing it here.
Good luck with your plan!

[Malfunction]

Last Canadian pilot to leave, please turn out the lights!

[DanWEC]

Hello everyone,

First off, thank you to everyone who has participated in the poll, it's been very informative.

Next, I want to let everyone who has PM'd me know that I WILL get back to each of you and start a personal dialogue. I've been absolutely inundated with interest and it will take time to work through the pile as it grows.

This brings me to my next point, I knew there would be some interest from all experience levels, but what was completely unexpected was how far up the seniority list at many airlines that MOST of the queries were coming from. Many, many people in positions that would generally be accepted in our country as have "Made it". The other cohort which seemed to have a common background are renaturalized expats who've experienced conditions all over the world and are objectively discontent here.

This only serves to reinforce the fact that we have a deep systemic issue when it comes to our pay and conditions.

In the meantime, here are a few notes that will answer a number of questions that are coming in:

This is a new, from scratch service. This isn't a funnel towards any other existing scheme. It's myself and a US immigration lawyer. This is a process that I have been personally invested in, and through our experience, It would allow a simplified pathway for those who want to jump Stateside.

In each case, there is still a substantial amount of work that has to be done by both the employee and the applicant, even with the new conditions. What we're aiming to do is create a template that will shorten the process and cut through all the ad-hoc work that has to be done with each application. This will A) Benefit the employers in order to reduce the workload barrier, and B) On the applicant side, create a one stop pipeline.

I'll keep posting updates as we get the processes going, and will be talking further with everyone who sent messages.

Cheers!

[Bleed Air]

I think what everybody also has to keep in mind is that if this is true and does come to fruition then it won't just be Canadians that will be looking at this.
It will every pilot worldwide. Any pilot from any country that works as an expat will see the US as another expat opportunity just with better pay and way lower cost of living. Therefore, I would imagine unless you want to do exactly what you are currently doing, but in the US, I would real in the expectations hugely, as you could very well be competing with Europeans, Aussies, Kiwis, South Americans, Asians with 10's of thousands of hours of jet time. This will change the landscape of pilot hiring not just in North America, but worldwide. It will make those airlines that traditionally rely on expat pilots, to have to become a lot more competitive in their Terms and Conditions if they expect to compete with the US, which will hopefully drive up conditions worldwide. Here's hoping.

[RUNAWAY_STABILIZER]

If the Airlines in the United States continue to be short of pilots they will recruit from Canada and other countries, Canadian airlines must plan for this. Many Canadian pilots will join the brain drain to America.

[BodyJet]

Can't find an official announcement.

I quickly searched this visa online and talked to an USCIS officer.
“Jobs that qualify for a NIW are not defined by status. Those seeking a NIW may self-petition”.

Essentially, if you have: 1- an “advanced degree” and 2- “exceptional abilities” in your field, you can apply for a EB-2. If you are not sponsored by an employer, you have to apply and prove that you are qualified enough/worth of a NIW waiver and that it would be beneficial for the US to waive this requirement. More info here: https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-un ... rence-eb-2

I am no lawyer, take this with a grain of salt but personally, I think nothing has changed. You could, and still can apply for a EB-2 visa with NIW waiver as a pilot, you just have to be the full package to be selected.

You can apply yourself and pay a $700 fee or you can hire someone like this California based lawyer. https://agimmigration.law/en/our-team/ He will charge you up to $30K. He is also the one who paid a Pakistani news website https://en.baaghitv.com/foreign-pilots- ... %20Card.to to make this recent pilot visa announcement and have his immigration website linked to the article.

I think all these rumors started with the announcement recently made by the US secretary of state about the National Interest Exceptions for Regional COVID Proclamations. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... tions.html

At the bottom of the page, they talk about how exceptions will be made in regard of the issuance of visas for Pilots and Air crew travelling to the US for training, aircraft pick up, aircraft delivery or maintenance and requiring a B-1/B-2 visa, / NIW. This announcement is only to facilitate the movement of these people during COVID.

Add the media talking about flights being cancelled, a pilot shortage in the US, a lot of despair, some easy money to be made with immigration and license conversion programs, and you have another rumor starting.

Couple months ago, 2 pilots from Sky, spammed the Sky Regional Facebook page with their newly created financial investment group...”Don't you want to take control of your finances? We will teach you how to make money during an uptrend, but also during a downtrend! Small fee. More information via DMs...” A couple of layoff FAs seemed to be interested...

Times are tough, especially in Canada.

Today, I am not surprised to see another pilot jumping at the opportunity to make a few extra dollars and to create an immigration services business. Got to sell the dream when all hope is gone.

[Ash Ketchum]

So I have reached out to a few immigration lawyers in the US over the past few weeks as I had the same idea as Dan in trying to get a visa to work in the US. Most of the lawyers who I reached out to work on a basis where they won't take on a case unless they are fairly certain that they can win it (otherwise they don't charge fees). I have been told that my case as an airline pilot with an engineering bachelors degree is not a strong one for the EB-2 NIW visa and they all refused to take me on. They told me that most people who get approved for the EB-2 NIW visa are masters/PHD holders with significant contributions (patents, journal publications etc.) which can advance the US national interest.

Not to say that it is impossible but I just wanted to share, it seems like a long shot to get a US work visa as a pilot. I would love to see some stats on the application/acceptance rates for various professions for the EB-2 NIW visa.

[lee123]

So I have reached out to a few immigration lawyers in the US over the past few weeks as I had the same idea as Dan in trying to get a visa to work in the US. Most of the lawyers who I reached out to work on a basis where they won't take on a case unless they are fairly certain that they can win it (otherwise they don't charge fees). I have been told that my case as an airline pilot with an engineering bachelors degree is not a strong one for the EB-2 NIW visa and they all refused to take me on. They told me that most people who get approved for the EB-2 NIW visa are masters/PHD holders with significant contributions (patents, journal publications etc.) which can advance the US national interest.

Not to say that it is impossible but I just wanted to share, it seems like a long shot to get a US work visa as a pilot. I would love to see some stats on the application/acceptance rates for various professions for the EB-2 NIW visa.

Exactly. See my earlier post.

This won’t work, please don’t get your hopes up.

[hawker driver]

Don’t forget about the Fractionals both Netjets and Flexjet first year FO’s start around 80K. With 2 year upgrade you are close to 125K
Flexjet is on path to hire 200 pilots this year and probably another 150+ next year.

[PylotWolf]

Sign me up.... get me out of here

[ave8er]

Sign me up Dan.

[jayme]

I don’t know about Flexjet, but NetJets is a 10 year upgrade.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/netj ... es-18.html

I am Canadian and immigrated using a TN visa and labor certification. Took about 2.5 years. The TN visa was revoked after 6 months (it never should have been issued, really. I was admitted as a “meteorologist” even though my offer letter from the employer was for a job as a flight instructor.)

At that point I applied for and was granted an H1B1 (which states that the job must require a 4 year degree.). Because I had already gotten the government to agree that my particular flight instructing job required a degree as part of the labor certification, I was able to get the H1B1 and worked under that until green card issuance.

Good luck to all.

[sullecpt]

Talked to a law firm about the EB2 NIW. I have the 10+ years of experience required, but I have no degree. The deal breaker would be having the CPL/ATPL recognized as degree education equivalency. Has anyone tried to do this or can anyone recommend an agency that has been able to do it?

[pilotpark]

would ATPL + a Geography/ Science Aviation Degree from University of Waterloo suffice as a equivalency?

[throwawaycorporate]

As someone currently in the process of immigrating to the U.S, it is much the same situation in the U.S as Canada. The shortage is in the regionals... no major/legacy pax/cargo are short applicants. Thus, I can't see a direct pilot pathway in the future, as this will massively push wages down in the U.S.

Couple ideas though: Immigrate with your spouse, using your spouses occupation. For H1B, the spouse will get an H4. For EB1/EB2/EB3, you will get an E34 visa (What I'm doing).

As well, you can see the companies that were able to sponsor a limited number of H1B visas on the following page:

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Airline-Pilo ... 2020OC.htm

None of those airlines show a pathway to foreign sponsorship, so best to connect directly with recruiting.

Additionally a company called OMS has some scheme with CapeAir to sponsor foreign pilots. However you actually pay for their service, and it's 5 digits. Also check out the WAWCON for Cape Air, and see if it's something you'd like to pursue.

Point it - be very cautious about some new revolutionary path to immigration, especially one that uses the NIW.

[Polar Bear]

Has anyone started the process for the EB2 visa?
And has anyone dealt with this firm?
https://harveylawcorporation.com/histor ... ed-states/

[JHR]

Ask them how many pilots the have been successful with. Answer is probably zero. I contacted them, sent in the forms, they asked if I wanted to continue and then silence.

[brewmaxwell649]

I've got the better part of 20 years left and if they show up recruiting again in T1 I'd strongly consider it. Even giving up captain salary here, a DB pension, and years of seniority I would be ahead within a few years, even factoring starting at the bottom. But particularly if they sweeten the pot to attract experience... they've done it before.
Mobdro Vip

[sullecpt]

Any updates on this?

[FOD_Vacuum]

I’ve applied for the diversity visa (green card) as I am a European national. Super long shot as odds are pretty low but I’ll give it a shot! I’m also curious about this…Canadian aviation is rotten.

[JHR]

Ask them how many pilots the have been successful with. Answer is probably zero. I contacted them, sent in the forms, they asked if I wanted to continue and then silence.

Finally got a reply from Harvey Law



HLG – Update on the Pilot Shortage in the US

In the recent past weeks/months, US National Interest Waiver opportunities for Pilots have been the talk of the town, not only amongst pilots, but also amongst immigration lawyers.

Eager immigration agents have seen this as a massive opportunity to sign up large numbers of applicants at a low fee. On the other hand, conservative lawyers were quick to sweep aside the idea, perhaps partly because they do not wish to spend the time and energy pushing though the system when there are already well-oiled US immigration programs in place.

Although the shortage of pilots has exacerbated with COVID-19, immigration lawyers have seen their demand surge and so are in no dire need to push through any new immigration program, especially not one that may come into competition with existing and more profitable programs.

At Harvey Law Group, strong of 30 years of experience in the field, we have made the conscious choice not just to dip our toes but to dedicate ourselves fully to our clients. If an opportunity exists that can permit our clients to achieve their goals, then we feel it is our role to help. However, we do continue to be very selective as to the profile of pilots that we are willing to represent. This is for the pilots’ as well as our sakes. Working in full transparency with our clients has helped us tremendously to build our clients’ cases.

While we are experienced in obtaining National Interest Waivers generally, we understand that the aviation industry is now in a very unique position, which is the reason why we believe that there is a real opportunity to seize. The recent rumours we have all been hearing about the US looking into how to open the immigrations gates to experienced pilots are encouraging and we look forward to more official streamlining of the process.

You will find some of the latest news articles concerning the pilot shortage situation in the US below.

The US Pilot Shortage: How did it get so bad?

Ethan Klapper, ‘How A Pilot Shortage Could Leave Travelers With Higher Fares And Fewer Options’, The Points Guy, 16 December 2021
Higher fares. Fewer flights. Smaller and even midsize cities cut off from global airline networks. This nightmare scenario is becoming increasingly possible as the airline industry faces a pilot shortage in the coming years.
One projection shows a shortage of more than 12,000 pilots in the U.S. by the end of 2023.

Jay Singh, ‘United CEO: 100 Planes Are Parked Amid Regional Pilot Shortage’, Simply Flying, 16 December 2021
United’s CEO, Scott Kirby said that “We have almost 100 airplanes effectively grounded right now, because there’s not enough pilots to fly them.”
CEO of American Airlines, Doug Parker, was also asked to weigh in on the issue of pilot shortages. He stated: “It is going to be an issue for our ability to serve if we can’t recruit enough pilots.”

Rajesh Kumar Singh, ‘From Pilots To Ramp Agents - U.S. Airlines Go All Out To Staff Up’, Reuters, 24 November 2021
From offering premium pay to hefty signing bonuses or poaching workers from other airlines, American carriers are scrambling to ramp up staffing for the holiday season and prevent disruptions that marred air travel this summer.
For instance, Piedmont Airlines, American's subsidiary, is trying to lure pilots with a $180,000 bonus offer.

Craig Manning, ‘NMC's Aviation Program, Grads Flying High Amidst Record Pilot Demand’, The Ticker, 17 November 2021
Air travel is a roaring once more, and airlines are paying handsomely to bring new talent to the cockpit.
According to the Wall Street Journal, airlines are “poised for their busiest year of pilot hiring in more than three decades.”
Despite inspired efforts, most colleges are still struggling to produce enough pilots to meet roaring demands. Northwestern Michigan College’s aviation program, for example, can only admit 50 students each year into the program, which takes 2 years to complete.

Alison Sider, ‘Pilots Are In Demand Again, As Strained Airlines Go On A Hiring Spree’, The Wall Street Journal, 8 November 2021
Airlines are poised for their busiest year of pilot hiring in more than three decades as the industry tries to restock a workforce reduced during the pandemic and strained by a quick rebound in travel.
Major U.S. carriers are on track to hire around 4,200 pilots this year and more than 9,000 next year according to FAPA.aero, a Nevada-based career and financial adviser for professional pilots.

Callie Counsellor, ‘Local Pilot School Trying To Help Fill Pilot Shortage’, KSHB 41, 1 November 2021
More than 1.5 million people travelled on Oct. 30 this year, compared to around 600,000 on the same day last year. That has left airlines scrambling to hire more pilots to keep up with demand.
Delta Airlines recently announced it needs to hire more than 1,000 pilots by next summer. American is looking for more than 1,300 pilots and United is hiring 1,500.
The demand for pilots is a trend that started before the pandemic and will likely continue for years after.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts a 13% increase in pilot jobs by 2030, compared to 8% for all other occupations.

David Koenig, ‘Labor Shortages: American Airlines Flights Cancelled, Again.’, CS Monitor, 31 October 2021
Over three days, American Airlines cancelled about 1,800 flights and earlier in October, Southwest cancelled well over 2,000 flights.
Southwest's chief operating officer said the airline was pursuing “a very aggressive hiring plan" but was "still not where we want to be with staffing,” especially pilots.

Rich Thomaselli, ‘Delta CEO Says Pilot Shortage Is Coming’, Travel Pulse, 27 October 2021
More than four years ago, a report by airplane manufacturer Boeing Inc. projected a demand for more than 637,000 pilots over a 20-year period, lest there be a pilot shortage.
Between the aging workforce, fewer pilots exiting the military, and barriers to entry, including the cost of training, the roadblocks are piling up and Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian believes that could be a pressing issue more sooner than later.
“There is a looming shortage coming,” Bastian said Tuesday. “It’s not here yet. But it’s on its way.”

Troy Kinsey, ‘As Pilot Shortage Intensifies, Longtime Aviator Gets Busy’, Spectrum News, 7 October 2021
Taking shape over the course of the last decade, the shortage has been exacerbated by the exodus of more than 5,000 seasoned pilots who were offered early retirement packages by airlines that were haemorrhaging cash in the early days of the pandemic.
A relatively swift rebound in passenger traffic took many airlines by surprise and has forced them to dramatically ramp up pilot hiring.
The gulf between supply and demand is expected to exceed 10,000 pilots annually by 2023, making for a pilot's market the likes of which the aviation industry has rarely ever seen.

Anurag Kotoky and Cecilia Yap, ‘A Shortage Of Pilots Looms As The Next Challenge For Airlines’, Bloomberg News, 21 September 2021
After being thrust into crisis by the coronavirus, the aviation industry faces yet more trouble as the world emerges from the worst of the pandemic to find there’s now likely to be a shortage of pilots after thousands were laid off or decided to retire.
Government policies such as mandatory vaccinations for trainee pilots and travel curbs have also kept a new batch of potential aviators away, according to Bhanu Choudhrie, chief executive officer of Alpha Aviation Group.
“Airlines are going to continue to buy, modernize their fleets, and as they do that, they are going to require pilots,” he said. “The market is getting interesting again and we’re starting to see that upward trend, we’re starting to see airlines come to us and say -- look this is my delivery schedule, can you have pilots ready for me in two years time?”

Richard Wood, ‘US Airlines' Bid To Lure Australian Pilots Adds To Aviation Worries’, 9 News, 15 September 2021
At least two major American airlines are recruiting pilots in Australia as the US aviation sector bounces back from the pandemic.
Aviation careers coach Kirsty Ferguson said the US airlines GoJet and SkyWest are currently holding interviews in Australia and she had received more than 70 inquiries from Australian pilots considering a move to the US.

James Wynbrandt, ‘The Pilot Shortage Trend Is Creating Tremendous Opportunities’, Flying Magazine, 14 September 2021
“Pilots are the currency now,” says Bruce Cavitt, a captain and pilot recruiter for regional carrier Envoy Air, “and it’s a little bit of an arms race to see which airlines can attract the pilots.”
This isn’t the first pilot shortage the airline industry has faced, but this one appears deeper and less avoidable than previous shortfalls because at the major airlines in the United States, “over half of their pilots will retire in the next 10 years,” says airline pilot and Flying contributing editor Sam Weigel.

Leslie Josephs, ‘Airlines Race To Train Pilots As Travel Demand Roars Back’, CNBC, 15 July 2021
Flight simulators from Atlanta to Dallas to Miami and elsewhere are humming as airlines scramble to get hundreds of pilots to meet a surge as travel has recovered to 2019 levels.
Airlines have received $54 billion in federal aid since March 2020 in exchange for not laying off workers but voluntary departures, changed fleets and the rapid rise in travel demand have created a need for pilots that industry experts say is without parallel.
“What is unique about this experience is the drop-off in business [early in the pandemic] was an existential threat to the business,” said Bryan Terry, managing director and global aviation leader at Deloitte. “Then what came, the unexpected part, the return to travel came faster than expected.” That “puts a very tight timeline” on the pilot training, he added.

Thomas Pallini, ‘Airlines Are Not Prepared For The Surge In Travelers Because They Don't Have Enough Planes — Or Pilots To Fly Them’, Insider, 27 June 2021
Travel is surging in the US and airlines are once again faced with shortages, but it's more than just pilots this time.
Many US carriers shed older aircraft from their fleets in a cash-saving effort during the worst times of the pandemic.
Southwest Airlines, after accelerating the retirement of 737-700 aircraft in 2020, is now saying that the airline's current fleet won't be enough to support the carrier's business model in the upcoming years and could hinder expansion efforts. "We don't feel like we have enough airplanes for 2022 and 2023," Gary Kelly, Southwest's chief executive officer.

Adam Levine-Weinberg, ‘A Massive Pilot Shortage Is Coming: What It Means For Airlines’, Nasdaq, 27 June 2021
The COVID-19 pandemic temporarily changed the supply and demand balance for airline pilots when airlines dramatically slashed capacity and offered generous early retirement packages.
In effect, last year's early retirement programs accelerated some of the mandatory retirements that would have happened over the next five years.
Making matters worse, airlines stopped recruiting new pilots during the pandemic and the industry's deep downturn last year may have scared away some aspiring pilots, thinning out the pipeline of future pilots.

James Clark, ‘United CEO Complains That The US Military Isn’t Training Enough Pilots For Airlines To Poach’, Task & Purpose, 23 June 2021
The commercial airline industry has lured experienced pilots away from the U.S. military for decades.
Now however, Scott Kirby, the CEO for United suggested that the military was to blame for the limited pool of pilots available to airlines.
“The military produces far fewer pilots today than they did in the Vietnam and the Cold War era and it’s hard to become a pilot — a commercial airline pilot on your own — if you’re not going through the military.”
United’s goal is to recruit, train, and retain more commercial aviators, but Kirby’s remark — that major airlines rely on the military to produce pilots — was telling, and it might signal problems to come, for both the airlines and the U.S. military.

Rachel S. Cohen, ‘Air Force Grapples With Enduring Pilot Shortage As Airlines Begin To Rehire’, Air Force Times, 23 June 2021
More pilots have opted to stay in the Air Force amid pandemic-era uncertainty, but the service is still struggling to fill jobs in its marquee profession as commercial airlines resume hiring.
The service now has around 19,100 pilots, or 1,900 airmen short of the 21,000 and wants to gradually ramp up its number of pilots over time to even out the ranks.

Leslie Josephs, ‘Delta Plans To Hire More Than 1,000 Pilots By Next Summer As Travel Demand Returns’, CNBC, 21 June 2021
Airlines are looking to fill more jobs as air travel makes a comeback, a year after COVID-19 struck.
American, Delta, and United are among the airlines on a hiring spree. Delta Air Lines told staff on Monday that it expects to hire more than 1,000 pilots by next summer, the latest move by an airline to cater to a rebound in travel demand.
“This is exciting news both for the pilots looking to join Delta and those of you already on the seniority list because it means career progression opportunities as we continue our recovery, account for scheduled pilot retirements and position for network expansion,” John Laughter, head of operations, said in a memo seen by CNBC.

Parker Davis, ‘Hundreds Of American Flights Cancelled Due To Reported Pilot Shortage’, Airline Geeks,19 June 2021
American Airlines cancelled over a hundred flights on Saturday and cancelled hundreds of others in advance after a shortage of crew left the airline unable to operate some of its summer route network.
The airline is still working through the process of retraining pilots who have not flown for months.
A lack of flights and simulator time prevented many of them from staying current on their respective aircraft types, and the airline has been unable to train them fast enough to keep pace with skyrocketing travel demand throughout the country.

Lauren Zumbach, ‘United Airlines Seeks To Train 5,000 Pilots By 2030, And Wants Half Of Them To Be Women Or People Of Color’, Chicago Tribune, 6 April 2021
In North America, airlines’ demand for pilots could outstrip supply by roughly 13% as early as 2023, according to an Oliver Wyman report.
“We do not believe that the pandemic has impacted our outlook for hiring. If anything, it will increase the numbers that we may need to hire in the future, especially since air travel seems to be rebounding now,” said United’s chief pilot, Mary Ann Schaffer.
United, which has about 12,000 pilots, expects to need to hire 10,000 by 2030.
Disclaimer
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[Phlyer]

Very interesting reading - thanks for all that JHR.

[RobTouch]

I have a few questions about the reverse – I am a US citizen, hoping to work as a pilot in Canada.

1. Does anyone know if this is possible? I would do my flight training in Canada, YYZ is about 75 miles from my home in Buffalo, NY.
2. Does anybody actually get hired at the 250 hour level? I completely understand that someone with 1500 hours will likely get hired over someone with 300 hours.
3. I’ve found two different flight schools reasonably close to us in Canada. One is full time, and the closer one is not. Is there a reason I can’t start part-time on the PPL, and once I retire, move on to the full time program to finish up the CPL and specialized rating?

I’ve read enough posts here to know the money is better on the US side, but for my circumstances, driving to Toronto is better than commuting half-way across the US to a regional base. My wife and I will be retiring early (51-52), with good pensions, so the quality of life is more important than the money. She is much more supportive of the “Pilot Plan” as long as we can continue living in the house we’ve lived in for 20+ years. On the US side, I’d never make the majors anyway, since logging 1500 hours would take too long to be worth it.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts/suggestions!