Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[Schooner69A]

About time the anti-vaxxers stood up and took two for the team...

[alkaseltzer]

Do you think the vaccine is going to end this virus? If so I have some Arizona beach front property to sell you!

A bunch of people just got the coof on a cruise ship and guess what? All were vaccinated.

So you bought beach front property in Arizona....

Nope I’m of the freedom of choice group and think these new vaccines are more of a placebo than anything.

So is your license and medical.

[JcPd_flyer]

Strict mandate for something with a 99.7% survival rate.

Where are you getting these numbers?? Fox news??

[telex]

Edited. Take a break for a couple of weeks, and come back a little more polite, please...

[FL320]

I know about 80 people who got covid, most were not vaccinated at the time and none had any serious effect.
My brother got the Delta variant 10 days ago (and also my cousin); both are not vaccinated. Light symptoms, feeling tired, light cough and total lost of taste and the smell. My mother got it too but dual Pfizered: much more intense cough but didn’t lose the taste and smell.

[montado]

Strict mandate for something with a 99.7% survival rate.

Where are you getting these numbers?? Fox news??

CDC says the IFR is estimated to be 0.5 percent. This is the average for all ages and with no vaccine. With a vaccine I would guess it’s even better than a 99.7 survival rate.

The unvaccinated population is under 12. Their risk of fatality is next to nothing. If 70 percent of the 1.4 million kids in Ontario get covid this year at school, 7 would die. In 2018 8 kids in this age group died of the flu in Ontario.

What I don’t understand is why data is argued. You have to dig past the headlines but it’s all there. As of June 2nd only 7 kids in Florida died of covid in the unvaccinated age group…

The data shows people are over reacting and hyperventilating over something very low risk to the younger kids and very low risk to those vaccinated. Almost like we shouldn’t even be talking about covid any more than we talk about the flu.

[TheStig]

Strict mandate for something with a 99.7% survival rate.

Where are you getting these numbers?? Fox news??

CDC says the IFR is estimated to be 0.5 percent. This is the average for all ages and with no vaccine. With a vaccine I would guess it’s even better than a 99.7 survival rate.

The unvaccinated population is under 12. Their risk of fatality is next to nothing. If 70 percent of the 1.4 million kids in Ontario get covid this year at school, 7 would die. In 2018 8 kids in this age group died of the flu in Ontario.

What I don’t understand is why data is argued. You have to dig past the headlines but it’s all there. As of June 2nd only 7 kids in Florida died of covid in the unvaccinated age group…

The data shows people are over reacting and hyperventilating over something very low risk to the younger kids and very low risk to those vaccinated. Almost like we shouldn’t even be talking about covid any more than we talk about the flu.

What I don't understand is why you think that 3 to 5 people dying out of every 1000 infections is negligible? Okay we've known all along that kids aren't at high risk of severe outcomes, that's likely why no one is mandating vaccinations for children under 12.I'm not sure what you're getting at here? You're frustrated with COVD restrictions and mandates, join the club. If you're trying to say that it's no more dangerous than the flu? You're wrong.

[montado]

Where are you getting these numbers?? Fox news??

CDC says the IFR is estimated to be 0.5 percent. This is the average for all ages and with no vaccine. With a vaccine I would guess it’s even better than a 99.7 survival rate.

The unvaccinated population is under 12. Their risk of fatality is next to nothing. If 70 percent of the 1.4 million kids in Ontario get covid this year at school, 7 would die. In 2018 8 kids in this age group died of the flu in Ontario.

What I don’t understand is why data is argued. You have to dig past the headlines but it’s all there. As of June 2nd only 7 kids in Florida died of covid in the unvaccinated age group…

The data shows people are over reacting and hyperventilating over something very low risk to the younger kids and very low risk to those vaccinated. Almost like we shouldn’t even be talking about covid any more than we talk about the flu.

What I don't understand is why you think that 3 to 5 people dying out of every 1000 infections is negligible? Okay we've known all along that kids aren't at high risk of severe outcomes, that's likely why no one is mandating vaccinations for children under 12.I'm not sure what you're getting at here? You're frustrated with COVD restrictions and mandates, join the club. If you're trying to say that it's no more dangerous than the flu? You're wrong.

1 in 1000 who get the flu die if it, why is that acceptable?

And willing to bet now that people are vaccinated, as they have the choice with the flu, I’m thinking the death rate for covid is now on par.

So the question would be why do we need different restrictions and policies for one virus that causes 1 death per 1000 people (when given the option of a vaccine), vs a different virus that causes 1 death per 1000 people (when given the option of a vaccine). We are just really splitting hairs here now. To me it’s incredible there’s this line in the sand where two viruses are basically the same, yet public perception is that covid is much worse than the flu. Because of this they are willing to comply with ridiculous restrictions including loss of employment, lockdowns, shutdowns, isolation, masks, mandatory vaccines etc. Do you have any data that shows with our current vaccine rates we are still worse than the flu? If we stay below 100 deaths per day for “flu season” we are pretty much on par with the flu. If you average flu deaths you are looking at 22 per day across Canada. Time to see these vaccines working and life crack to normal. Is anyone predicting we will see more than 8k covid deaths over this winter? Hmm… looks like just a flu.

And not once did I even mention yet that there’s a consequence to all the above measures and restrictions. So another argument could be that the reaction to covid was worse than covid itself.very damaging. My kids won’t wear masks at school. Social development is important to me. I think all the kids with parents who keep scaring this shit out of them and make them mask, these kids are going to be socially fucked up. But I can’t measure all these things. So I know what the data says for covid and IMO we are over reacting. Over cautious is fine in the beginning when you don’t know. But now we know! Let’s stop pretending we don’t know! We know with a vaccine, covid is like the flu, which also has a vaccine! No shit! Pandemic is over!

[Arnie Pye]

You should have a choice. Take the shot and come to work. Don't take the shot but provide the rest of the crew with a negative PCR test prior to the start of work each day. That way I know you're not going to give me or any member of my crew COVID which could be brought home to someone's elderly parents or young children. Pilots are cheap bastards. I can't see anyone paying $200/day to go to work.

I don't want my children (or yours for that matter) to be one of the 7 that die from COVID. I don't want my parents (or yours) to be one of the thousands over the age of 70 that die of this disease. The prevention is simple.

The majority of Canadians support science and vaccines. It's time to stop enabling a vocal minority. Retire, quit, get fired. I don't care. Get off my seniority list and stay home. There are still plenty of other people willing to come to work who have the shots.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Awesome! Now I don't have to sit next to some anti-vaxxer twit going on about his rights without regard for mine while he spits his covid all over the cockpit.

I am pro-vaccine and I am leaning toward agreeing with the mandate, but I feel it necessary to correct this misconception.

Vaccines do not prevent you from getting sick. By definition, all they do is allow your body to learn how to create an immune response BEFORE one gets sick so that when they are infected, your body is spending less time trying to figure out what's happening and how to deal with it and more time dealing with it. The effect is that the illness is shorter in duration and less intense.

tl;dr: Vaccines do not prevent you from becoming sick or being contagious, but if you do get sick, you will be less sick and contagious for a shorter overall period of time.

[montado]

You should have a choice. Take the shot and come to work. Don't take the shot but provide the rest of the crew with a negative PCR test prior to the start of work each day. That way I know you're not going to give me or any member of my crew COVID which could be brought home to someone's elderly parents or young children. Pilots are cheap bastards. I can't see anyone paying $200/day to go to work.

I don't want my children (or yours for that matter) to be one of the 7 that die from COVID. I don't want my parents (or yours) to be one of the thousands over the age of 70 that die of this disease. The prevention is simple.

The majority of Canadians support science and vaccines. It's time to stop enabling a vocal minority. Retire, quit, get fired. I don't care. Get off my seniority list and stay home. There are still plenty of other people willing to come to work who have the shots.

I think you should also have to do a covid test. Are you vaccinated? You can still pass covid to me. So my risk assessment says you should provide me a negative covid test before working together since I don’t want one of my kids to be part of the 7 who die because your vaccinated ass thinks you don’t spread covid, when you do.

All the vaccinated plague rats feel invincible but the science says they are contributing to the spread big time. This is why cdc is telling everyone to wear a mask still, even if vaccinated. Let me guess, you don’t follow science! Well no shit, your point of views have been completely dumb so far, it was obvious you never looked at one lick of science.

Maybe don’t come up with your own idiotic unscientific rules. PCR tests for everyone because all lives matter! Funny enough we didn’t even need this rule when we had ZERO VACCINATED in Canada but all of a sudden we are mostly vaccinated and the idiots come out in full force! We can only conclude that you don’t believe vaccines actually work.

[YC87DRVR]

You should have a choice. Take the shot and come to work. Don't take the shot but provide the rest of the crew with a negative PCR test prior to the start of work each day. That way I know you're not going to give me or any member of my crew COVID which could be brought home to someone's elderly parents or young children. Pilots are cheap bastards. I can't see anyone paying $200/day to go to work.

I don't want my children (or yours for that matter) to be one of the 7 that die from COVID. I don't want my parents (or yours) to be one of the thousands over the age of 70 that die of this disease. The prevention is simple.

The majority of Canadians support science and vaccines. It's time to stop enabling a vocal minority. Retire, quit, get fired. I don't care. Get off my seniority list and stay home. There are still plenty of other people willing to come to work who have the shots.

I think you should also have to do a covid test. Are you vaccinated? You can still pass covid to me. So my risk assessment says you should provide me a negative covid test before working together since I don’t want one of my kids to be part of the 7 who die because your vaccinated ass thinks you don’t spread covid, when you do.

All the vaccinated plague rats feel invincible but the science says they are contributing to the spread big time. This is why cdc is telling everyone to wear a mask still, even if vaccinated. Let me guess, you don’t follow science! Well no shit, your point of views have been completely dumb so far, it was obvious you never looked at one lick of science.

Maybe don’t come up with your own idiotic unscientific rules. PCR tests for everyone because all lives matter! Funny enough we didn’t even need this rule when we had ZERO VACCINATED in Canada but all of a sudden we are mostly vaccinated and the idiots come out in full force! We can only conclude that you don’t believe vaccines actually work.

If everyone else is so dumb, out of curiosity what short or education or training do you have that makes you smarter then some of the worlds top doctors? Who have spent decades on their education, research and training? Are you like most of the anti-vaxx people I know who barely have a high school education then spent a few months at a community college or flight club but but think they know it all?

[montado]

Did I say anything that’s not common knowledge.

Did I go against the top doctors?

I literally post about what the experts are saying. It was a doctor in Toronto who said if 70 percent of kids get covid under the age of 12, 7 Ontario kids of the 1.4 million would die from covid, which is the same as the flu. I have presented this data with the sources in the poll I created about back to school. It’s not my own research, it’s literally the experts presenting the data. The reason we have different views is people are not consistent. They don’t care about flu deaths, they only care about covid deaths. If your kid dies of the flu they shrugged their shoulder and said “that’s normal”. But when 7 kids in Florida die of covid they say this is crazy we need to have zero deaths because everyone matters! (Which by the way, no amount of restrictions will take us to covid zero)

Anthony Fauci says vaccinated people need to wear masks because vaccinated people can have just as much viral load has unvaccinated and they still spread covid.

I literally just present the data from our experts. What qualifications do I need to read what they are saying. It doesn’t take an expert to figure out it’s completely dumb for people to pretend only the unvaccinated can spread covid therefor they should take a pcr test before work. That is idiotic because anyone can read the science and see that vaccinated people still spread covid.

We are all reading the same thing, but some people come up with completely idiotic ideas. Please present some rational thoughts everyone! We are reading the same science!

[47north]

You should have a choice. Take the shot and come to work. Don't take the shot but provide the rest of the crew with a negative PCR test prior to the start of work each day. That way I know you're not going to give me or any member of my crew COVID which could be brought home to someone's elderly parents or young children. Pilots are cheap bastards. I can't see anyone paying $200/day to go to work.

I don't want my children (or yours for that matter) to be one of the 7 that die from COVID. I don't want my parents (or yours) to be one of the thousands over the age of 70 that die of this disease. The prevention is simple.

The majority of Canadians support science and vaccines. It's time to stop enabling a vocal minority. Retire, quit, get fired. I don't care. Get off my seniority list and stay home. There are still plenty of other people willing to come to work who have the shots.

I think you should also have to do a covid test. Are you vaccinated? You can still pass covid to me. So my risk assessment says you should provide me a negative covid test before working together since I don’t want one of my kids to be part of the 7 who die because your vaccinated ass thinks you don’t spread covid, when you do.

All the vaccinated plague rats feel invincible but the science says they are contributing to the spread big time. This is why cdc is telling everyone to wear a mask still, even if vaccinated. Let me guess, you don’t follow science! Well no shit, your point of views have been completely dumb so far, it was obvious you never looked at one lick of science.

Maybe don’t come up with your own idiotic unscientific rules. PCR tests for everyone because all lives matter! Funny enough we didn’t even need this rule when we had ZERO VACCINATED in Canada but all of a sudden we are mostly vaccinated and the idiots come out in full force! We can only conclude that you don’t believe vaccines actually work.

If everyone else is so dumb, out of curiosity what short or education or training do you have that makes you smarter then some of the worlds top doctors? Who have spent decades on their education, research and training? Are you like most of the anti-vaxx people I know who barely have a high school education then spent a few months at a community college or flight club but but think they know it all?

+1

The number of individuals here and elsewhere spouting off about something they know nothing about or just enough to be dangerous is astounding. Social media has only exasperated this.

[redbusdriver]

vaccine isn't going to make covid go away, and there's a small chance of getting it still, depending on what vaccine you got. even if you're fully vaxxed, you can carry it, and still "spit it all over the place". example, in united arab emirates, believe it or not, they claim 100 percent fully vaccinated, yet 1200 new cases.

i think it's silly to mandate this, and now there's talk of boosters. there's more to the whole covid thing, especially when governments basically force you to get a rushed vaccine, after they said they wouldn't, then there's the covid related deaths that aren't from the virus, and no condemnation to china for this whole thing. smoke and mirrors friends.

disclaimer, i'm fully vaxxed.

[altiplano]

I think it is irrespective of education or specialty, some people simply can collect information and analyze something, putting it together in way that leads to them to understand the illogicallity of it. Meanwhile most of the population are satisfied just accepting and following he dominant paradigm they are fed by politicians, big pharma, unelected technocrats, and mainstream media.

The lack of logic in policy decisions has been explained here at length and all I see is a doubling down with more illogic in response.

That's disturbing. Gaslighting, illogic, and false narratives are being sold to and accepted by the majority. They've used waves of fear and threat to break us down and divide us. We are also seeing widespread censorship, cancellation, deplatforming, and ruin of anyone that opposes their narrative.

The unwitting, unquestioning masses just go on...

[Aviatard]

I think it is irrespective of education or specialty, some people simply can collect information and analyze something, putting it together in way that leads to them to understand the illogicallity of it. Meanwhile most of the population are satisfied just accepting and following he dominant paradigm they are fed by politicians, big pharma, unelected technocrats, and mainstream media.

The lack of logic in policy decisions has been explained here at length and all I see is a doubling down with more illogic in response.

That's disturbing. Gaslighting, illogic, and false narratives are being sold to and accepted by the majority. They've used waves of fear and threat to break us down and divide us. We are also seeing widespread censorship, cancellation, deplatforming, and ruin of anyone that opposes their narrative.

The unwitting, unquestioning masses just go on...

Ah so you’re just smarter than everyone else. Ok Mr. Dunning.

[YC87DRVR]

Did I say anything that’s not common knowledge.

Did I go against the top doctors?

I literally post about what the experts are saying. It was a doctor in Toronto who said if 70 percent of kids get covid under the age of 12, 7 Ontario kids of the 1.4 million would die from covid, which is the same as the flu. I have presented this data with the sources in the poll I created about back to school. It’s not my own research, it’s literally the experts presenting the data. The reason we have different views is people are not consistent. They don’t care about flu deaths, they only care about covid deaths. If your kid dies of the flu they shrugged their shoulder and said “that’s normal”. But when 7 kids in Florida die of covid they say this is crazy we need to have zero deaths because everyone matters! (Which by the way, no amount of restrictions will take us to covid zero)

Anthony Fauci says vaccinated people need to wear masks because vaccinated people can have just as much viral load has unvaccinated and they still spread covid.

I literally just present the data from our experts. What qualifications do I need to read what they are saying. It doesn’t take an expert to figure out it’s completely dumb for people to pretend only the unvaccinated can spread covid therefor they should take a pcr test before work. That is idiotic because anyone can read the science and see that vaccinated people still spread covid.

We are all reading the same thing, but some people come up with completely idiotic ideas. Please present some rational thoughts everyone! We are reading the same science!

There you go, made my point exactly. You read a few articles and watched a few news videos and you’re now an expert enough to come on here and call strangers “dumb”. You still didn’t answer the question on why training and education in the medical field you have as well.
Believe and do what you want, I don’t care. Just have some credibility before calling people dumb for theirs

[JcPd_flyer]

CDC says the IFR is estimated to be 0.5 percent. This is the average for all ages and with no vaccine. With a vaccine I would guess it’s even better than a 99.7 survival rate.

The unvaccinated population is under 12. Their risk of fatality is next to nothing. If 70 percent of the 1.4 million kids in Ontario get covid this year at school, 7 would die. In 2018 8 kids in this age group died of the flu in Ontario.

What I don’t understand is why data is argued. You have to dig past the headlines but it’s all there. As of June 2nd only 7 kids in Florida died of covid in the unvaccinated age group…

The data shows people are over reacting and hyperventilating over something very low risk to the younger kids and very low risk to those vaccinated. Almost like we shouldn’t even be talking about covid any more than we talk about the flu.

What I don't understand is why you think that 3 to 5 people dying out of every 1000 infections is negligible? Okay we've known all along that kids aren't at high risk of severe outcomes, that's likely why no one is mandating vaccinations for children under 12.I'm not sure what you're getting at here? You're frustrated with COVD restrictions and mandates, join the club. If you're trying to say that it's no more dangerous than the flu? You're wrong.

1 in 1000 who get the flu die if it, why is that acceptable?

And willing to bet now that people are vaccinated, as they have the choice with the flu, I’m thinking the death rate for covid is now on par.

So the question would be why do we need different restrictions and policies for one virus that causes 1 death per 1000 people (when given the option of a vaccine), vs a different virus that causes 1 death per 1000 people (when given the option of a vaccine). We are just really splitting hairs here now. To me it’s incredible there’s this line in the sand where two viruses are basically the same, yet public perception is that covid is much worse than the flu. Because of this they are willing to comply with ridiculous restrictions including loss of employment, lockdowns, shutdowns, isolation, masks, mandatory vaccines etc. Do you have any data that shows with our current vaccine rates we are still worse than the flu? If we stay below 100 deaths per day for “flu season” we are pretty much on par with the flu. If you average flu deaths you are looking at 22 per day across Canada. Time to see these vaccines working and life crack to normal. Is anyone predicting we will see more than 8k covid deaths over this winter? Hmm… looks like just a flu.

And not once did I even mention yet that there’s a consequence to all the above measures and restrictions. So another argument could be that the reaction to covid was worse than covid itself.very damaging. My kids won’t wear masks at school. Social development is important to me. I think all the kids with parents who keep scaring this shit out of them and make them mask, these kids are going to be socially fucked up. But I can’t measure all these things. So I know what the data says for covid and IMO we are over reacting. Over cautious is fine in the beginning when you don’t know. But now we know! Let’s stop pretending we don’t know! We know with a vaccine, covid is like the flu, which also has a vaccine! No shit! Pandemic is over!

Could you please provide the source of your information because I cant find any. Here's the simple death/cases fatality rate and it's around 1.8% in Canada.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

FYI, 2018-2019 flu season had 35 Mil cases and 34,157 deaths according to CDC, and that's about 0.1%. Also, COVID has higher reproduction rate than flu, which makes it worse. So no COVID is not just like flu.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pa ... 1598291911

We have had 1.45 Mil cases and 26,698 deaths in Canada, and that's 26,698 too many. People might still think "oh it's still 98.2% survival rate" but the story quickly changes if we start treating this virus like nothing and our healthcare system get overwhelmed. Remember how bad it was in Italy when their healthcare system collapsed?? New York?? India??

Of course, fatality rate isn't that easy to figure out. My point is, fatality/survival rate changes with how badly the virus is spreading. If we had a COVID patient in a hospital with 10 doctors attending this individual, their chances of surviving is huge. But if there are 200 patients per doctor in a hospital with not enough oxygen nor medical supplies, then their survival rate is drastically reduced. We cannot downplay this virus because "it's just like flu and I have 99.7% chance of surviving it".

Also, the more we prolong this, the more variants we could see. We need to see the 700,000 cases reported world wide as 700,000 x 1 billion chances that those virus can mutate into something new, that could be more resilient to the vaccines we have been giving.

Trust me I get your frustration. I lost my job because of COVID, I haven't met my family in +2 years, I'm tired of all restrictions and I want this to end as much as you do. I don't agree with the new mandate neither but we just cannot let our guard down. Downplaying this virus will is not the way we get out of this. It's not helping anyone and it's simply delays the recovery.

[altiplano]

I think it is irrespective of education or specialty, some people simply can collect information and analyze something, putting it together in way that leads to them to understand the illogicallity of it. Meanwhile most of the population are satisfied just accepting and following he dominant paradigm they are fed by politicians, big pharma, unelected technocrats, and mainstream media.

The lack of logic in policy decisions has been explained here at length and all I see is a doubling down with more illogic in response.

That's disturbing. Gaslighting, illogic, and false narratives are being sold to and accepted by the majority. They've used waves of fear and threat to break us down and divide us. We are also seeing widespread censorship, cancellation, deplatforming, and ruin of anyone that opposes their narrative.

The unwitting, unquestioning masses just go on...

Ah so you’re just smarter than everyone else. Ok Mr. Dunning.

"some people"

If you can't question and challenge the narrative and see the illogic of it all then you aren't some people.

We are facing an Orwellian future that nobody would have accepted 2 years ago and now you cheer it on. Restricted movement, restricted business, restricted freedoms, forced quarantine of healthy people, widespread censorship, forced medical procedures, population tracking, varying classes within the population based on level of acceptance.

"Now we need you to do one more thing."

It won't end.

They are escalating it in waves and you just keep accepting it.

[montado]

Could you please provide the source of your information because I cant find any. Here's the simple death/cases fatality rate and it's around 1.8% in Canada.

Sure, I can do that. First I would like to point out in your argument you used CFR for Covid, and IFR for the Flu.

The IFR for covid can be found here and its 0.5 percent using all ages:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... arios.html
(I notice now they are breaking it down by age and giving values in cases per million. They used to have this data as an all ages figure. The current table says over 65 you have a IFR of 9%, and under 17 you have an IFR of 0.002%)

The IFR for the flu can be found here and its 0.1 percent among all ages:
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... as-a-hoax/
As far as the flu is concerned, the estimation of infections and deaths due to seasonal flu for the past years provides a way to determine the IFR. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 35.5 million people got the flu during the 2018-2019 flu season and 34,200 died from it, which yields an IFR of 0.1%. According to those CDC estimates, the flu IFR ranged from 0.1% to 0.17% from 2014 to 2019.

That's 10 percent of Americas population that got the flu that season. So while the estimates is covid spreads faster, the flu still has fantastic coverage and this is why the flu has not been eradicated.

Lets remember this is numbers with Covid with no vaccine, and the Flu with a vaccine. Given how effective the vaccine is, this 0.5 number will be driven down with vaccinations correct? Is it true the vaccine is effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths? What i find interesting is you provided sources but still made a ridiculous argument. Probably because you use CFR for Covid and IFR for the flu.

This data puts everyone under 50 at and IFR less than the Flu (average flu among all ages). Everyone over 50 at greater IFR than the flu. I think its obvious that the most impacted demographic is the 50 plus age group. Where the flu is different because it seems to impact the very young and the very old the most.

Also, the more we prolong this, the more variants we could see.
This is another unscientific assumption. Do you think the whole world will be vaccinated? Even if we vaccinated every single Canadian, it appears that new variants could evolve elsewhere and make their way to Canada. So please provide a source for this wild claim you made. I'm not the expert, but i think you are wrong.

So the big question today would be, what is an appropriate level of risk... My opinion is those under 50 dont have much to worry about. A vaccine is a good idea. I don't believe we should vaccinate those under 12, as they really don't have much risk at all. Vaccines are very low risk, but so is covid to this age group, and maybe the spread of covid will build a natural immunity in those ages (not to sure). And absolutely if you are over 50 i highly recommend a vaccine. My personal take is we have reached peak risk management. there is nothing left we can do to mitigate the risk that will have a net benefit. At this point any more rules and restrictions are just more damaging. We did the right thing by creating a vaccine and getting it into arms to those who want it. All i see is a future where more (rules and restrictions) is less (net benefit to the health of our population).

Do you disagree? based of the data above. I make statments such as "covid is not any worse than the flu" because if you are vaccinated i dont really see what the issue is. I have seen it posted that those hospitalized are 50x more likely to be un-vaccinated. Looks like the vaccine is working. So if the IFR of covid is 0.5 (with no vax) and the flu is 0.1, do you think its safe to say we have nearly reached the same IFR for covid with the amount of vaccinations we have. Do you think we will see more covid deaths or flu deaths in canada this winter? Ill put my money on the flu.

Trust me I get your frustration.

No, you dont. I'm vaccinated, I'm working, I have a great life and do what I want. No frustration here. Just pointing out that people seem to ignore data and rely on headlines. But I'm not suffering, I dont give a covid.

When i read up on covid I often read from doctors who are pro lockdown. But i take their personal opinions out, I read the data, and formulate my own opinion. I don't read crap that is not factual. You can send me all the pro lock-down pro mask studies you want, I will read them and read the data but I might have my own opinion that's different from the person writing it. People need to remember experts only know their field. A doctor might see 7 kids will die out of 1.4 million and say we need to close schools, while a social worker might look at that data and say if we close school thousands of kids will have a social consequence that can damage them for life and schools should be open. Everyone can look at data and draw different conclusions. People tend to be one dimensional. I function with two dimensions, and that is I personally got vaccinated, and i have a job etc... but just because that was my choice, my second dimension is that what works for me might not work for someone else... I believe people should be their own expert, because its not up to your doctor, dentist, or social worker to decide what it right for you. Just like if you have cancer, you may elect to take treatment or you may elect to choose quality of life. People deserve that autonomy. So thats my stand on mandatory vaccine. Thanks for the suggestion experts, but no thanks.

[montado]

There you go, made my point exactly. You read a few articles and watched a few news videos and you’re now an expert enough to come on here and call strangers “dumb”. You still didn’t answer the question on why training and education in the medical field you have as well.
Believe and do what you want, I don’t care. Just have some credibility before calling people dumb for theirs

I am allowed to think people have dumb opinions. You can think my opinions are dumb, I take no offense

I think if someone is vaccinated and says they want their colleague to take a mandatory covid test if they are not vaccinated is dumb. It is dumb because its not consistent. They were working for a year with no vaccines and they were okay with the risk, now the risk is far less than 6 months ago yet they came up with a new rule... this is dumb! Dumb Dumb Dumb!

Had this person said "I didn't work all year because I took an LOA because i didn't feel safe to work" and now with a vaccine they are okay to work... I would say Smart! Smart Smart Smart! See how that would be consistent? Does this individual want their colleague to take a test because of safety? or are they spiteful? I think we can make a reasonable conclusion by their actions.... See how that works? This is not about safety, its about control. This is about someone who is angry at the world trying to project their religious beliefs on others... the religion of covid policy

So yes, I will let people know when i think they say something dumb. Usually its when they are hypocritical or not consistent. I have said some dumb things. I had one shot and said I don't want my second because restrictions are still in place. Someone said I was dumb... and they were right, it was dumb! It okay to be dumb sometimes! don't get offended! And I went and got another shot... Fully vax here... 5g is great... some of you are missing out

[Arnie Pye]

They were working for a year with no vaccines and they were okay with the risk, now the risk is far less than 6 months ago yet they came up with a new rule...

Actually, the vast majority of people in my circle were laid off for the last couple of years because of this. The majority still are. I didn't have the privilege of coming to work without a vaccine.
Ironically, the staunch anti-vaxxers that I have encountered have, for the most part, been people that maintained employment throughout the pandemic. The argument that I run into the most is that "well, I'm fine so everything is ok."

Let's go with your approach then:

[JcPd_flyer]

Could you please provide the source of your information because I cant find any. Here's the simple death/cases fatality rate and it's around 1.8% in Canada.

Sure, I can do that. First I would like to point out in your argument you used CFR for Covid, and IFR for the Flu.

The IFR for covid can be found here and its 0.5 percent using all ages:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... arios.html
(I notice now they are breaking it down by age and giving values in cases per million. They used to have this data as an all ages figure. The current table says over 65 you have a IFR of 9%, and under 17 you have an IFR of 0.002%)

The IFR for the flu can be found here and its 0.1 percent among all ages:
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... as-a-hoax/
As far as the flu is concerned, the estimation of infections and deaths due to seasonal flu for the past years provides a way to determine the IFR. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 35.5 million people got the flu during the 2018-2019 flu season and 34,200 died from it, which yields an IFR of 0.1%. According to those CDC estimates, the flu IFR ranged from 0.1% to 0.17% from 2014 to 2019.

That's 10 percent of Americas population that got the flu that season. So while the estimates is covid spreads faster, the flu still has fantastic coverage and this is why the flu has not been eradicated.

Lets remember this is numbers with Covid with no vaccine, and the Flu with a vaccine. Given how effective the vaccine is, this 0.5 number will be driven down with vaccinations correct? Is it true the vaccine is effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths? What i find interesting is you provided sources but still made a ridiculous argument. Probably because you use CFR for Covid and IFR for the flu.

This data puts everyone under 50 at and IFR less than the Flu (average flu among all ages). Everyone over 50 at greater IFR than the flu. I think its obvious that the most impacted demographic is the 50 plus age group. Where the flu is different because it seems to impact the very young and the very old the most.

Also, the more we prolong this, the more variants we could see.
This is another unscientific assumption. Do you think the whole world will be vaccinated? Even if we vaccinated every single Canadian, it appears that new variants could evolve elsewhere and make their way to Canada. So please provide a source for this wild claim you made. I'm not the expert, but i think you are wrong.

So the big question today would be, what is an appropriate level of risk... My opinion is those under 50 dont have much to worry about. A vaccine is a good idea. I don't believe we should vaccinate those under 12, as they really don't have much risk at all. Vaccines are very low risk, but so is covid to this age group, and maybe the spread of covid will build a natural immunity in those ages (not to sure). And absolutely if you are over 50 i highly recommend a vaccine. My personal take is we have reached peak risk management. there is nothing left we can do to mitigate the risk that will have a net benefit. At this point any more rules and restrictions are just more damaging. We did the right thing by creating a vaccine and getting it into arms to those who want it. All i see is a future where more (rules and restrictions) is less (net benefit to the health of our population).

Do you disagree? based of the data above. I make statments such as "covid is not any worse than the flu" because if you are vaccinated i dont really see what the issue is. I have seen it posted that those hospitalized are 50x more likely to be un-vaccinated. Looks like the vaccine is working. So if the IFR of covid is 0.5 (with no vax) and the flu is 0.1, do you think its safe to say we have nearly reached the same IFR for covid with the amount of vaccinations we have. Do you think we will see more covid deaths or flu deaths in canada this winter? Ill put my money on the flu.

Trust me I get your frustration.

No, you dont. I'm vaccinated, I'm working, I have a great life and do what I want. No frustration here. Just pointing out that people seem to ignore data and rely on headlines. But I'm not suffering, I dont give a covid.

When i read up on covid I often read from doctors who are pro lockdown. But i take their personal opinions out, I read the data, and formulate my own opinion. I don't read crap that is not factual. You can send me all the pro lock-down pro mask studies you want, I will read them and read the data but I might have my own opinion that's different from the person writing it. People need to remember experts only know their field. A doctor might see 7 kids will die out of 1.4 million and say we need to close schools, while a social worker might look at that data and say if we close school thousands of kids will have a social consequence that can damage them for life and schools should be open. Everyone can look at data and draw different conclusions. People tend to be one dimensional. I function with two dimensions, and that is I personally got vaccinated, and i have a job etc... but just because that was my choice, my second dimension is that what works for me might not work for someone else... I believe people should be their own expert, because its not up to your doctor, dentist, or social worker to decide what it right for you. Just like if you have cancer, you may elect to take treatment or you may elect to choose quality of life. People deserve that autonomy. So thats my stand on mandatory vaccine. Thanks for the suggestion experts, but no thanks.

Hmmm that's a lot of stuff you said. I dont konw where to start

Thank you for the links, and you are right that I didnt do enough research on COVID vs Flu thing because that wasn't even the main argument I was trying to make. My point is that drawing attention on just one fatality rate and saying that it's safe, is not appropriate and might mislead people to drop their guards vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Reading your post, I think you do agree that COVID is more dangerous than flu without mass vaccination, especially when we consider the danger it poses to the elderly population? And now you feel safe because a lot of us are vaccinated? Then I kinda was on the same page as you are. I thought it'll all go back to normal as soon as we get close to that 75% vaccination rate, but what scares me is the cases and hospitalization numbers rising in countries with decent vaccination rates like Israel or the USA, and now slowly in Canada.

>Do you disagree? based of the data above. I make statments such as "covid is not any worse than the flu" because if you are vaccinated
No I don't really. As you mentioned, vaccines are doing great job keeping vaccinated people away from getting hospitalized. However, vaccinated population was also supposed to block the spread by breaking the chain of infection, but as you mentioned somewhere, it looks like us vaccinated can still be part of the chain if not being cautious, causing the hospital to be filled with sick unvaccinated patients. I personally am not as confident in those vaccines as before, I think there's just too much uncertainty at this point and I think loosening all restrictions is too risky. If you can make me feel safer with your two dimensional thoughts, I'm all ears.

As far as variants are concerned, I think this video illustrates some good points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha6yUxze1vk
I don't know which part of my statement upset you so much. More people infected, more viruses, more chances of mutation. Sounds logical to me...idk

[Hangry]

I think it is irrespective of education or specialty, some people simply can collect information and analyze something, putting it together in way that leads to them to understand the illogicallity of it. Meanwhile most of the population are satisfied just accepting and following he dominant paradigm they are fed by politicians, big pharma, unelected technocrats, and mainstream media.

The lack of logic in policy decisions has been explained here at length and all I see is a doubling down with more illogic in response.

That's disturbing. Gaslighting, illogic, and false narratives are being sold to and accepted by the majority. They've used waves of fear and threat to break us down and divide us. We are also seeing widespread censorship, cancellation, deplatforming, and ruin of anyone that opposes their narrative.

The unwitting, unquestioning masses just go on...

Ah so you’re just smarter than everyone else. Ok Mr. Dunning.

Exactly. The Dunning Kruger effect is so glaring in all of these posts it’s nauseating. Totally embarrassing.

Imagine a gardener telling you how to manage your flight deck.

Only in a world so devoid of challenges would someone with no expertise declare themselves more knowledgeable than the literal experts.

Life is too easy for too many people in the country.