Morningstar C208 YVR

[Dsalk]

Good Morning,

I'm keeping a look out for the Caravan job out of YVR. I've heard from people who have worked there/have known people who have worked there that it is a good company & a good job for building command time (I have just shy of 1800 hours but almost no PIC time outside of the CPL). I realize they aren't posting jobs at the moment but the C208 job does come up from time to time and I was hoping someone might shed some light on the interview process and the company lifestyle in general. What kind of questions can I expect during the interview? What is there interview process? What is the schedule like out of YVR?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Invertago]

It's a good gig and you're not alone waiting for a posting. I've got 208 time and friends on the inside and I'm waiting for the same ad to pop up. From those I've talked to on the inside we won't see that ad pop up till the airlines hire again and we see industry movement first. 208 --> 757 --> Mainline AC etc. Right now mainline has a lot of furloughed guys so everyone is staying put and no 208 seats coming available. As for the YVR 208 job, they'll want to see solid IFR and 208 experience to get on and ideally some two crew time for future upgrades to the 757 / ATR etc. It's not an entry first 208 job if thats what you're hoping especially in this market 2021. Maybe if we see a shortage again in 2022 or 2023.

[scdriver]

Anybody know what the pay is like for that job?

[C-GGGQ]

Its in the contract but starts at like 58 or 60. Goes up every year.

[Tbayer2021]

Pay information is about to change at Morningstar fairly soon. A new collective agreement should be issued in the next couple of weeks.

[Dsalk]

Invertago - I appreciate your reply. That is basically what I have heard/assumed. The industry is slowly recovering but odds are it will take a long while before we see the movement we saw in 2019. I have a lot of 2-crew & IFR time but no 208 time. The Morningstar job is definitely one I would be interested in after the industry bounces back. That being said if anyone who does work for or has worked for Morningstar on the Caravan out of YVR has any insight to the company & interview process I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

[FOD_Vacuum]

It’s a great gig that would lead to the 757. Unfortunately, the YVR caravan job is hard or near impossible to get right now. There are many laid off pilots currently working as delivery drivers out of the YVR facility (myself included) who would pounce on the opportunity if it ever came up.

[viccoastdog]

Anybody know what the pay is like for that job?

If you were to get the position today your compensation would be $63,856 plus per diems. But new contract expected any day...

[Tbayer2021]

Anybody know what the pay is like for that job?

If you were to get the position today your compensation would be $63,856 plus per diems. But new contract expected any day...

It should be noted that this number includes a current retention bonus of $1000 a month, paid monthly. The new salary will not be far off this number, the only difference will be that it will all be salary, rather than salary+bonus.

[scdriver]

Anybody know what the pay is like for that job?

If you were to get the position today your compensation would be $63,856 plus per diems. But new contract expected any day...

It should be noted that this number includes a current retention bonus of $1000 a month, paid monthly. The new salary will not be far off this number, the only difference will be that it will all be salary, rather than salary+bonus.

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

[Tbayer2021]

If you were to get the position today your compensation would be $63,856 plus per diems. But new contract expected any day...

It should be noted that this number includes a current retention bonus of $1000 a month, paid monthly. The new salary will not be far off this number, the only difference will be that it will all be salary, rather than salary+bonus.

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

The salary certainly isn't breaking any records, thats for sure. But funny how its right on part with the first few years at any of the majors. That being said, there will be a pay scale and salary will commensurate with YOS. It should be over 100K by the time one reaches 10 years, yes I know thats a while.

There are two types of people who apply to these 208 positions in YVR, YYZ and YWG. One is looking for a foot in the door to get to the 757, and the other just wants the gravy schedule and easy flying because they have something else on the side. I know many of the caravan guys personally and many of them have around 10 or more years on the 208 with the company. They don't move to the 757 because they have something else on the side and the schedule allows for it quite easily. This is why 208 positions don't come up very often at all, the guys are very happy there. The most junior YYZ 208 guy is coming up on 4 years of service, he could have gone to the Boeing less than 12 months after being hired, if he had wanted to. Sure, you can make more money at Seaair, but you'll also be working at least twice as much/hard. You don't even load, fuel, or de-Ice the 208 here. You need to spray? Full type I and 4 if you want it. They're not lying on the posting when they say 10-12 days a month, sometimes less. How long till you get to that sort of schedule at the regionals or majors.

[Invertago]

I'm not expecting to see the 208 YVR job posting pop up till you see the job board light up across the country. Basically, when the 208 job is available you'll be seeing Encore / Jazz hiring off the street again because the industry will have recovered.

[scdriver]

It should be noted that this number includes a current retention bonus of $1000 a month, paid monthly. The new salary will not be far off this number, the only difference will be that it will all be salary, rather than salary+bonus.

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

The salary certainly isn't breaking any records, thats for sure. But funny how its right on part with the first few years at any of the majors. That being said, there will be a pay scale and salary will commensurate with YOS. It should be over 100K by the time one reaches 10 years, yes I know thats a while.

There are two types of people who apply to these 208 positions in YVR, YYZ and YWG. One is looking for a foot in the door to get to the 757, and the other just wants the gravy schedule and easy flying because they have something else on the side. I know many of the caravan guys personally and many of them have around 10 or more years on the 208 with the company. They don't move to the 757 because they have something else on the side and the schedule allows for it quite easily. This is why 208 positions don't come up very often at all, the guys are very happy there. The most junior YYZ 208 guy is coming up on 4 years of service, he could have gone to the Boeing less than 12 months after being hired, if he had wanted to. Sure, you can make more money at Seaair, but you'll also be working at least twice as much/hard. You don't even load, fuel, or de-Ice the 208 here. You need to spray? Full type I and 4 if you want it. They're not lying on the posting when they say 10-12 days a month, sometimes less. How long till you get to that sort of schedule at the regionals or majors.

Interesting, I can certainly see how it would be a cushy gig for the right person. What kind of experience did the guys that you know have when they were hired? I'd imagine it's a job for folks with ~2500TT or something like that. Would that be accurate?

[viccoastdog]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

Per diems add about $5000 per year, $500 per year for uniform dry cleaning, and salary goes up about $3500 to $4000 each year. You will however be paying about $1000 per year to ALPA in union dues.

This is NOT a time building position, as, depending on the base, you may fly not much more than 300 hours per annum.

Most crews have quite a bit of time, including good IFR time and/or lots of command time.

[Tbayer2021]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

The salary certainly isn't breaking any records, thats for sure. But funny how its right on part with the first few years at any of the majors. That being said, there will be a pay scale and salary will commensurate with YOS. It should be over 100K by the time one reaches 10 years, yes I know thats a while.

There are two types of people who apply to these 208 positions in YVR, YYZ and YWG. One is looking for a foot in the door to get to the 757, and the other just wants the gravy schedule and easy flying because they have something else on the side. I know many of the caravan guys personally and many of them have around 10 or more years on the 208 with the company. They don't move to the 757 because they have something else on the side and the schedule allows for it quite easily. This is why 208 positions don't come up very often at all, the guys are very happy there. The most junior YYZ 208 guy is coming up on 4 years of service, he could have gone to the Boeing less than 12 months after being hired, if he had wanted to. Sure, you can make more money at Seaair, but you'll also be working at least twice as much/hard. You don't even load, fuel, or de-Ice the 208 here. You need to spray? Full type I and 4 if you want it. They're not lying on the posting when they say 10-12 days a month, sometimes less. How long till you get to that sort of schedule at the regionals or majors.

Interesting, I can certainly see how it would be a cushy gig for the right person. What kind of experience did the guys that you know have when they were hired? I'd imagine it's a job for folks with ~2500TT or something like that. Would that be accurate?

That number is pretty spot on, with the caveat that a large percentage of that is in SPIFR, preferably in 208s. The couple of years leading to the start of C-19 saw the experience level drop off a bit since most pilots wanted the airlines. But if you're around ~2500TT with considerably time in 208s and SPIFR, I'd say that would make you a strong candidate. Another avenue would be to get into the ATR or 757 and just bid to transfer over to the 208 as soon as there is a spot open. You are position frozen for 12 months and bidding is done by seniority like everywhere else. Its one master seniority list for the whole company (757, ATR and 208). Which is why many on the 757 are very concerned if a good chunk of 208 guys ever bid onto the 757 ahahah.

[dhc#]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

Per diems add about $5000 per year, $500 per year for uniform dry cleaning, and salary goes up about $3500 to $4000 each year. You will however be paying about $1000 per year to ALPA in union dues.

This is NOT a time building position, as, depending on the base, you may fly not much more than 300 hours per annum.

Most crews have quite a bit of time, including good IFR time and/or lots of command time.

Am curious, would you know what the salary and schedule is on the ATR side of the operation (CPT/FO) ?

[Tbayer2021]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

Per diems add about $5000 per year, $500 per year for uniform dry cleaning, and salary goes up about $3500 to $4000 each year. You will however be paying about $1000 per year to ALPA in union dues.

This is NOT a time building position, as, depending on the base, you may fly not much more than 300 hours per annum.

Most crews have quite a bit of time, including good IFR time and/or lots of command time.

Am curious, would you know what the salary and schedule is on the ATR side of the operation (CPT/FO) ?

Here is the current contract the pilots are working under. As you can see, it expired March 31st, 2020. The new contract had been in negotiations for 1.5 years under ALPA until it went to arbitration. The new contract is expected to drop any day now, since it has been a couple of months since the arbitrator took it.

Currently, add $12000 a year to all those salary numbers you see on the pay scales.

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 65202a.pdf

[Flight94]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

As a comparison, Skylink Express, which flies the exact same routes and similar schedule as Morningstar out of YVR with the C208, pays $40k per year, no benefits, no union, no uniform, no medical, etc. And they load/unload their own plane.

[scdriver]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

As a comparison, Skylink Express, which flies the exact same routes and similar schedule as Morningstar out of YVR with the C208, pays $40k per year, no benefits, no union, no uniform, no medical, etc. And they load/unload their own plane.

I really don’t understand why the hell anyone would take that job

[scdriver]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

As a comparison, Skylink Express, which flies the exact same routes and similar schedule as Morningstar out of YVR with the C208, pays $40k per year, no benefits, no union, no uniform, no medical, etc. And they load/unload their own plane.

I really don’t understand why the hell anyone would take that job

[Tbayer2021]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

As a comparison, Skylink Express, which flies the exact same routes and similar schedule as Morningstar out of YVR with the C208, pays $40k per year, no benefits, no union, no uniform, no medical, etc. And they load/unload their own plane.

I really don’t understand why the hell anyone would take that job

Maybe because they had no other option at that moment in time? Lets be real, not everyone gets the same opportunities in life. We all know most people would take a higher paying job with better benefits and protections if they could.

[Don Cherry]

I’m surprised it’s that low for single pilot IFR. Hard to live off that in yvr too. Be better off driving a caravan on floats at Seair

As a comparison, Skylink Express, which flies the exact same routes and similar schedule as Morningstar out of YVR with the C208, pays $40k per year, no benefits, no union, no uniform, no medical, etc. And they load/unload their own plane.

I really don’t understand why the hell anyone would take that job

Because it's better to load/unload a C208 for UPS than load/unload an UPS truck... At least you're logging hours to jump ships in the future. Also, everything said above is true, but an union is coming soon to Skylink. Cheers.

[scdriver]

As a comparison, Skylink Express, which flies the exact same routes and similar schedule as Morningstar out of YVR with the C208, pays $40k per year, no benefits, no union, no uniform, no medical, etc. And they load/unload their own plane.

I really don’t understand why the hell anyone would take that job

Maybe because they had no other option at that moment in time? Lets be real, not everyone gets the same opportunities in life. We all know most people would take a higher paying job with better benefits and protections if they could.

I definitely understand that, but assuming most (all?) of the Skylink 208 pilots were hired prior to COVID, I find it hard to believe that most of them wouldn’t have other options. Yes, I know everyone’s situation is different but still. The few thousand hours to get that job would almost certainly offer other opportunities in yvr. I would genuinely like to know more about the folks there though and why they choose to fly there.

[Flight94]

I definitely understand that, but assuming most (all?) of the Skylink 208 pilots were hired prior to COVID, I find it hard to believe that most of them wouldn’t have other options. Yes, I know everyone’s situation is different but still. The few thousand hours to get that job would almost certainly offer other opportunities in yvr. I would genuinely like to know more about the folks there though and why they choose to fly there.

Schedule is/was a big one. Caravan pilots only fly weekdays, all weekends and holidays off. Short hops to the island, home every night. Considering its SPIFR, the hiring req's are actually pretty low, only 1000 TT. Most guys that got hired had no previous IFR experience. And even though it only pays 40k, it's equivalent if not better than any right seat gig.

[scdriver]

I definitely understand that, but assuming most (all?) of the Skylink 208 pilots were hired prior to COVID, I find it hard to believe that most of them wouldn’t have other options. Yes, I know everyone’s situation is different but still. The few thousand hours to get that job would almost certainly offer other opportunities in yvr. I would genuinely like to know more about the folks there though and why they choose to fly there.

Schedule is/was a big one. Caravan pilots only fly weekdays, all weekends and holidays off. Short hops to the island, home every night. Considering its SPIFR, the hiring req's are actually pretty low, only 1000 TT. Most guys that got hired had no previous IFR experience. And even though it only pays 40k, it's equivalent if not better than any right seat gig.

What’s the progression though? Can you fly a 1900 outta yvr? If they pay 40k for a caravan pilot I can’t imagine they pay much for a 1900 pilot. I think I’d have to disagree that it’s better than any right seat gig. I’d rather be in the right seat at Jazz or even Pasco I think where yes there will be some inevitable shittiness with schedule and what not for a while, but you’ll be ahead with career progression, salary, benefits, pension, and an all important seniority number. That’s all just my opinion though coming from a view that it’s really not possible to have a great life as a pilot
in yvr making 40k. Would you honestly say that the good schedule makes up for the pay and lack of benefits?