Fall Equipment Bid

[the-minister31]

Jazz hiring 2021? Zero possibility.

Slight chance spring 2022, but not based on current plan.

I would be leaning towards fall 2022 or winter 2022/2023.

Management seems quite confident they will be hiring spring 2022 or maybe even winter 2022.

[Outlaw58]

Rudder, does the 1326 flying positions mean "line pilots" (term you have used in previous posts on this subject) ?

Yes. Excludes inactive pilots (med leave/management/training department/LOA).

By way of comparison, the last Jazz equipment bid prior to COVID had 1300 flying positions. But it did NOT include the SKV E175 flying positions. SKV seniority list at time of consolidation was 283 but included management and training dept pilots and perhaps several LOA/med leave.

There are 328 E175 flying positions in the bid which is well beyond the SKV pilot totals when it was staffed separately.

The Jazz CBA and the CAR’s FTDT changes appear to have increased the staffing ratio. AC may also be planning increased utilization for the Express E175 fleet necessitating higher crewing levels.

I guess I'll ask the question that many of us are now wondering, based on this bid (the 1326 flying positions), is it possible that Jazz may have to hire this fall (sooner than speculated from previous posts), if once the bid closes not all of those laid off last year actually return to Jazz... (I understand the number will probably be a small %) ??? Or will things ramp up slowly especially due to training bottlenecks ??

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Kosiw

I understand where your question comes from, ie if Jazz ends up with unfilled vacancies, will we hire? The thing is the baseline is a moving target that will be adjusted to match the current pilot list. The goal of this bid is to bring the pilots back online and get them trained with as much base stability as possible. It is safe to assume that the following bid, likely in January, will aim to balance the bases. This next bid MAY lead to new hiring, but so many things could happen between now and then that no one can really say. IF and its a big IF....the airlines continue to recover at the projected rate and we don't hit another speed bump along the way...hiring in the spring is a possibility.

58

[Kosiw]

Yes. Excludes inactive pilots (med leave/management/training department/LOA).

By way of comparison, the last Jazz equipment bid prior to COVID had 1300 flying positions. But it did NOT include the SKV E175 flying positions. SKV seniority list at time of consolidation was 283 but included management and training dept pilots and perhaps several LOA/med leave.

There are 328 E175 flying positions in the bid which is well beyond the SKV pilot totals when it was staffed separately.

The Jazz CBA and the CAR’s FTDT changes appear to have increased the staffing ratio. AC may also be planning increased utilization for the Express E175 fleet necessitating higher crewing levels.

I guess I'll ask the question that many of us are now wondering, based on this bid (the 1326 flying positions), is it possible that Jazz may have to hire this fall (sooner than speculated from previous posts), if once the bid closes not all of those laid off last year actually return to Jazz... (I understand the number will probably be a small %) ??? Or will things ramp up slowly especially due to training bottlenecks ??

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Kosiw

I understand where your question comes from, ie if Jazz ends up with unfilled vacancies, will we hire? The thing is the baseline is a moving target that will be adjusted to match the current pilot list. The goal of this bid is to bring the pilots back online and get them trained with as much base stability as possible. It is safe to assume that the following bid, likely in January, will aim to balance the bases. This next bid MAY lead to new hiring, but so many things could happen between now and then that no one can really say. IF and its a big IF....the airlines continue to recover at the projected rate and we don't hit another speed bump along the way...hiring in the spring is a possibility.

58

Appreciate the response....and explanation

[KenoraPilot]

YVR & YYC bases have gotten smaller
(DH8 reduction and attrition in other positions) (CRJ CA YYC sees 0 increased positions leading me to believe CRJ YYC's days are numbers in 2022-2023 bids)

YYZ & YUL bases have gotten bigger (thanks to E75)

Western Bases to remain smaller until Pacific flying/US Trans-border flying increases

This is all based on flying continually increasing......however, with Delta (Covid) and a possibly poor cold/flu/covid 4th wave this fall/winter.....its all a gamble at this point. Really depends on how the gov'ts around the world handle this and if we or anyone else goes into "lock downs" again.

I wouldn't expect hiring at Jazz until Fall/Winter 2022 or early 2023. I have been wrong a lot in the past and really hope I am, but I would be extremely "Cautiously Optimistic" at this point. I currently do not have faith in any govt around the world not throwing the brakes on again

Good Luck to everyone in this Equipment Bid 2021-1!

[a2btrail]

So many variables that will influence this upcoming bid....reduction... freezes... change in flying etc. It's hard to measure. I noticed that there are many vacancies on the E75. Do you guys believe the E75 will go SR or JR? Im thinking about leaving my equipment to bid onto it...

[the-minister31]

So many variables that will influence this upcoming bid....reduction... freezes... change in flying etc. It's hard to measure. I noticed that there are many vacancies on the E75. Do you guys believe the E75 will go SR or JR? Im thinking about leaving my equipment to bid onto it...

Considering the freezes still apply, it all depends on what the DH8 guys will be bidding.

I see most of them bidding the Q4 but who knows

[Inverted2]

So many variables that will influence this upcoming bid....reduction... freezes... change in flying etc. It's hard to measure. I noticed that there are many vacancies on the E75. Do you guys believe the E75 will go SR or JR? Im thinking about leaving my equipment to bid onto it...

Considering the freezes still apply, it all depends on what the DH8 guys will be bidding.

I see most of them bidding the Q4 but who knows

In YYZ most of the D8 pilots are bidding the E75 since the bid only shows 17 Q4 CA spots. Word is a lot of senior RJ pilots are bidding the E75 too.

[QKZXKV]

So many variables that will influence this upcoming bid....reduction... freezes... change in flying etc. It's hard to measure. I noticed that there are many vacancies on the E75. Do you guys believe the E75 will go SR or JR? Im thinking about leaving my equipment to bid onto it...

Considering the freezes still apply, it all depends on what the DH8 guys will be bidding.

I see most of them bidding the Q4 but who knows

I tend to agree; I have spoken to a couple friends who are interested in taking the RJ right seat as well coming right seat off the D8.

[rudder]

In YYZ most of the D8 pilots are bidding the E75 since the bid only shows 17 Q4 CA spots. Word is a lot of senior RJ pilots are bidding the E75 too.

Frozen pilots are …… frozen. Most pilots affected by type freeze are FO. D8 pilots are all free agents due reduction rights.

I would expect once bid results are published that top 30-35 EMB CA in YYZ will be new on type and top 20-25 EMB CA in YUL will be new on type as well.

[goleafsgo]

In YYZ most of the D8 pilots are bidding the E75 since the bid only shows 17 Q4 CA spots. Word is a lot of senior RJ pilots are bidding the E75 too.

Frozen pilots are …… frozen. Most pilots affected by type freeze are FO. D8 pilots are all free agents due reduction rights.

I would expect once bid results are published that top 30-35 EMB CA in YYZ will be new on type and top 20-25 EMB CA in YUL will be new on type as well.

I think those numbers will be higher, most dash captains want the emb, and there still will be RJ and possibly Q guys wanting it too

[Kosiw]

Is the EMB a more desireable bid than the RJ (900) ?

[cdnavater]

Is the EMB a more desireable bid than the RJ (900) ?

I think, it’s a combination of shiny new toy, the flying it does and the opinion that it’s a “real jet” by some, passengers included. The customers have a higher opinion of the E175.
Also, the seniority will likely be better for most on it, the RJ is a pretty senior position and the former SR Captains are all less than 10 years seniority, I feel the former SR pilots will not be happy with the outcome of this bid!

[rudder]

Is the EMB a more desireable bid than the RJ (900) ?

RJ = 200/900. However, west of YYZ it is 900 only. Once pre-COVID schedule is restored, great RJ(900) flying and layovers out of YVR (California).

EMB does a lot of undesirable flying (short haul eastern US seaboard + ORD). Once pre-COVID schedule is restored, it will be back on the former SKV/Express route network which will include at least a few warmer weather destinations and longer stage lengths.

There will be no EMB presence in western Canada until the first generation EMB and older RJ900’s are replaced at Express by second gen EMB or the E2.

Level of automation on EMB far beyond the RJ, although no auto-brake or auto-land on current first gen EMB fleet. Hopefully both features will be standard on replacement EMB.

Many pilots will use relative seniority on roster as priority in choosing between RJ and EMB. No airplane is fun when you have a lousy schedule and lousy vacation. Both fleet types have some very undesirable pairings (continuous duty overnights), particularly out of YYZ.

[Inverted2]

You don’t want to be near the bottom of any roster at Jazz. Either you’re stuck with awful continuous duty pairings or you’re crew sked’s bitch. Can’t decide which is worse.

[rudder]

You don’t want to be near the bottom of any roster at Jazz. Either you’re stuck with awful continuous duty pairings or you’re crew sked’s bitch. Can’t decide which is worse.

And don’t forget that Jazz RSV CA cover both CA and FO open flying (after FO WDO call out list is exhausted).

[straight2thepoint]

Personally I'd love if the western jazz guys bid the 175 to free up some RJ spots in yyc and yvr. I won't hold my breath though.

As a point of information, the Sky guys down to about seniority number 1350ish were all available to or in the process of upgrading. I'm sure the former Sky yyz and yul guys aren't going to be happy once the bid completes.

[Fowler]

We all have a job, years of service recognition, pension recognition, vacation recognition, base maintenance and a hail Mary situation that got them out of chasing the golden goose egg. They may not be happy but I trust they will recognize the alternative and realize they are in a great spot. Retirements on the way here at Jazz and eventually flow to AC.
Additionally some could be captain albeit on different equipment.
Lastly, we are all Jazz pilots now, treated the same.

[Outlaw58]

Personally I'd love if the western jazz guys bid the 175 to free up some RJ spots in yyc and yvr. I won't hold my breath though.

As a point of information, the Sky guys down to about seniority number 1350ish were all available to or in the process of upgrading. I'm sure the former Sky yyz and yul guys aren't going to be happy once the bid completes.

Keep in mind that to bid into YYC or YVR, you have to already be based there. Western base positions, vacated by pilots migrating to the east, will not be backfilled.

In short, the bid will be run so that a pilot's base will be protected. Voluntary moves from West to East will be allowed but not the other way around.

58

[the-minister31]

We all have a job, years of service recognition, pension recognition, vacation recognition, base maintenance and a hail Mary situation that got them out of chasing the golden goose egg. They may not be happy but I trust they will recognize the alternative and realize they are in a great spot. Retirements on the way here at Jazz and eventually flow to AC.
Additionally some could be captain albeit on different equipment.
Lastly, we are all Jazz pilots now, treated the same.

Well said!

As a Sky guy that probably won't hold the 175, I couldn't care less what type I end up on... And I'll wear the Jazz hat without looking back.

It's easy to see the negative in every bid, every email, every training, etc. But the fact is when I look around in aviation in Canada, Jazz is a great place to be right now...

[rudder]

Keep in mind that to bid into YYC or YVR, you have to already be based there. Western base positions, vacated by pilots migrating to the east, will not be backfilled.

Probably true. But there will be roster balancing if there is a large gap between CA and FO.

In short, the bid will be run so that a pilot's base will be protected. Voluntary moves from West to East will be allowed but not the other way around.

Are you sure? COVID Inactive pilots are not bidding from a Position. They are deemed surplus. No reinstatement rights (including Base).

I am guessing that a majority of pilots will be planning to be attached to their current/former Base. And the projected Positions in the Bid seem to have been constructed to reflect that. But there will be pilots bidding for Base change, including East to West.

[QKZXKV]

Keep in mind that to bid into YYC or YVR, you have to already be based there. Western base positions, vacated by pilots migrating to the east, will not be backfilled.

Probably true. But there will be roster balancing if there is a large gap between CA and FO.

In short, the bid will be run so that a pilot's base will be protected. Voluntary moves from West to East will be allowed but not the other way around.

Are you sure? COVID Inactive pilots are not bidding from a Position. They are deemed surplus. No reinstatement rights (including Base).

I am guessing that a majority of pilots will be planning to be attached to their current/former Base. And the projected Positions in the Bid seem to have been constructed to reflect that. But there will be pilots bidding for Base change, including East to West.

I wouldn't say ALL inactive pilots are deemed as surplus to the roster. There were recall waves from the Spring and Early Summer to which the MEC specifically said "further recalls will be due to increased blocking" The ones back with the final recall in August COULD be considered surplus since it was to protect them from losing CEWS.

[Outlaw58]

Keep in mind that to bid into YYC or YVR, you have to already be based there. Western base positions, vacated by pilots migrating to the east, will not be backfilled.

Probably true. But there will be roster balancing if there is a large gap between CA and FO.

In short, the bid will be run so that a pilot's base will be protected. Voluntary moves from West to East will be allowed but not the other way around.

Are you sure? COVID Inactive pilots are not bidding from a Position. They are deemed surplus. No reinstatement rights (including Base).

I am guessing that a majority of pilots will be planning to be attached to their current/former Base. And the projected Positions in the Bid seem to have been constructed to reflect that. But there will be pilots bidding for Base change, including East to West.

You are correct in that their may be oddities that pop-up as the bid is processed but those should be rare exceptions.

As stated in company and ALPA communications: "A decision was made to set Baselines in both Vancouver and Calgary that would encapsulate the number of Pilots currently awarded those Bases. This decision will result in YVR Pilots and YYC Pilots deadheading East to cover flying while we wait to see how the industry recovery progresses. As allowed in LOU 55, Baseline numbers may be adjusted during the bid award process if Western Pilots choose to bid Positions in Toronto and Montreal."

So even though the flying allocated would call for shrinking the YYC and YVR bases and grow the YUL and YYZ bases, the baseline was established so that there are enough positions in every base for all pilots currently there (active or not) and that baseline could be adjusted "ad hoc" during the bid processing in order to allow a pilot wanting to migrate from West to East to do so, but the vacancy left behind in the west would not be backfilled.

58

[hithere]

I’ve flown the RJ 200s and 705ie900s in the right seat years ago. Now on the DH4. I always said I’d only bid back on the RJ once the 50 seat(-200series) was gone. I was not a fan of that aircraft and the flying it did. Virtually no automation, no leading edge devices, starting the APU on descent just to keep the pressurization going so the engines could run the deice(or was it vice-versa?), glory stroll to the back of the plane to use the lav (and listening to virtually every passenger saying “shouldn’t you be up front?”) the list goes on. I would fly the DH4 any day over the 50seat RJ. At the very least the DH4 has Fadec and a lav at the front of the aircraft

[RoAF-Mig21]

Hi!

First time here, though I've been reading your posts for a while. I figured it's time I joined the "Merry Band of Pirates".

I'm looking forward to this bid. I'm also being reduced off the "-300" and pretty much everyone I've spoken with, in YYZ, wants the Embraer, myself included. I don't see too many YVR or YYC pilots wanting to switch bases just for the aircraft, though some may. I imagine those would be the folks that contemplated moving back "home"; guys and gals that want to be closer to their families.

I can understand what the senior ex Sky Regional feel. They can't match the 20+ year seniority of our Dash 8 skippers and they will lose their top spots on this aircraft. With that being said, they will have the option to go on other equipment, or if they desire look elsewhere for employment. (Not meant as a derogatory comment.) It's good to have a choice at least. That's the risk we all took when decided to become pilots and then joined a specific airline. You never know how the industry or your company will do in five, ten or fifteen years.

I wonder how many Q and RJ pilots will want to switch over to the Embraer.

[a2btrail]

Thanks everyone for your input. As a reminder bid closes tomorrow. Wishing good favour for everyone on your bid results by the EOM.