Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[YYCyoke]

Is another one stuck with the burnt-out landing gear indicator light.

You've got your two shots and you are still wearing a mask when asked to wear it. How stupid do you feel? You don't feel stupid at all. Why, because you are stupid...

Which vaccine company did you get your jab from?
- the one with $4.7 billion in fines for false claims, drug and medical safety violations, off label promotion, foreign corrupt practices, kickback and bribery (Pfizer)
- The one that has never brought a vax to market since it began in 2010, despite more than 9 vaccines candidates, none of which made it to phase 3 clinical trial (Moderna)
- the one that was ''paused'' by two dozen countries for severe adverse reactions like blood clots (Astra Zeneca)
- the one named in hundreds of lawsuits for toxic and/or dangerous products like baby powder, drugs, shampoo, surgical tools, and medical devices. (Johnson and Johnson)


You think you are a good person. People continue to confuse being obedient with being a good person. You are not a good person for following unscientific, morally corrupt rules... What you are is a coward.
Good people don't follow unjust laws, it's their disobedience to them, that creates positive changes.

If science and politic were never questioned, you'd still be drinking cocaine, giving kids cough syrup with heroin, spraying people with DDT, and smoking the cigarette brand your doctor recommended.

Also, in a real pandemic, hospital would not be firing qualified, experienced staff for declining a shot.

You are wasting your breath with these people. But you are absolutely right and you seem like a person who can research and critically think. Pm me.. we need a group of people with the same views.

[montado]

It's funny to watch everyone go crazy over the moderna news in Ontario yesterday.

The anti vax are like "see I told you"

The pro vax are like "this is how science works, things change with new evidence"

Basically I'm like "so if the science keeps changing, whatever science you tell me today is likely wrong I just haven't waited long enough for the truth?"

I wonder the reaction when new science comes up "the vaccine cause brain tumours in 80 percent of people" all the pro vaxers will be like "the science has changed!"

Anyways this is why freedoms and choices are so great. An informed decision today is to get vaccinated for most people. But we really should have freedom to choose IMO. I love my vaccine it seems to work great but I don't care what others do.

[Jimmy_Hoffa]

The best part about this entire thread is that its completely irrelevant. I doubt anyone here is out actually protesting AC HQ or The Hill for their policies. My guess is that at the end of the day most of the vocal minority here will simply roll over and get the jab to save their livelihood for themselves and their families. This makes all previous posts nothing but a waste of time . At the end of the day you have one decision to make, get vaccinated or don't. The Libs and AC have set the deadline...

[737Maximilian]

For how long? The vaccine is it. If you won't accept some sort of normal today what will change your mind?

I love how you treat this as some sort of choice. Unfortunately, we cannot just wish this disease away. Alberta is the prime example. You can't even get an ICU bed if you're in a serious car accident. Is this normal?

Are we just waiting for when we "feel" safe?

I feel safe during my day-to-day job in a customer-facing role. However, we must view this from a societal level. Again: Alberta.

let us know your list of what's not reasonable to do right now?

Ontario and Quebec seem to have done a good job of balancing opening up while maintaing enough restriction to protect the anti-vax crowd from overwhelming our health systems.

Fix the hospitals

No realistic expansion in hospital capacity will be sufficient to handle an exponential increase in serious cases. Hard restrictions will now be required in Alberta, all thanks to poor government policy and low vaccination rates.

The Alberta government certainly could have increased the AHS budget and started hiring more staff a year ago, but that would require a lot of people to be convinced that this isn't just the flu.

Exactly.

you seem like a person who can research and critically think... we need a group of people with the same views.

Oh great, another person who thinks watching Rebel News and listening to Bret Weinstein counts as research. What background do you have to analyze this data?

What company do you work for? Westjet? Hey look, I just researched this article on Westjet: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tsb-relea ... -1.3958357

Here's proof Westjet is dangerous, therefore, no one should fly on Westjet. Look how great I am at research and critical thought.

Do you see how Googling anecdotal tidbits of information that support my argument and treating it as fact shouldn't really constitute “research and critical thought?”

Where's the quantitative data?

The anti vax are like "see I told you"

Again, they’re treating it like an aha-moment when it’s not. Ontario has come out with data that suggests some males aged 18-24 might have a lower risk of developing myocarditis or pericarditis by taking the Pfizer vaccine. Both vaccines are still extremely safe and effective, and the chances of developing a major reaction are statistically very, very low.

The best part about this entire thread is that its completely irrelevant

I completely agree. The majority of society is moving forward thankfully.

[imjustlurking]

What company do you work for? Westjet? Hey look, I just researched this article on Westjet: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tsb-relea ... -1.3958357

Here's proof Westjet is dangerous, therefore, no one should fly on Westjet. Look how great I am at research and critical thought.

Do you see how Googling anecdotal tidbits of information that support my argument and treating it as fact shouldn't really constitute “research and critical thought?”

Where's the quantitative data?

In light of the low blow, I'd like to remind you that stupid mistakes are not limited to one group or another.



And just for good measure...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sunwin ... -1.4915969

['97 Tercel]

For how long? The vaccine is it. If you won't accept some sort of normal today what will change your mind?

I love how you treat this as some sort of choice. Unfortunately, we cannot just wish this disease away. Alberta is the prime example. You can't even get an ICU bed if you're in a serious car accident. Is this normal?

Are we just waiting for when we "feel" safe?

I feel safe during my day-to-day job in a customer-facing role. However, we must view this from a societal level. Again: Alberta.

let us know your list of what's not reasonable to do right now?

Ontario and Quebec seem to have done a good job of balancing opening up while maintaing enough restriction to protect the anti-vax crowd from overwhelming our health systems.

Fix the hospitals

No realistic expansion in hospital capacity will be sufficient to handle an exponential increase in serious cases. Hard restrictions will now be required in Alberta, all thanks to poor government policy and low vaccination rates.

The Alberta government certainly could have increased the AHS budget and started hiring more staff a year ago, but that would require a lot of people to be convinced that this isn't just the flu.

Exactly.

you seem like a person who can research and critically think... we need a group of people with the same views.

Oh great, another person who thinks watching Rebel News and listening to Bret Weinstein counts as research. What background do you have to analyze this data?

What company do you work for? Westjet? Hey look, I just researched this article on Westjet: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tsb-relea ... -1.3958357

Here's proof Westjet is dangerous, therefore, no one should fly on Westjet. Look how great I am at research and critical thought.

Do you see how Googling anecdotal tidbits of information that support my argument and treating it as fact shouldn't really constitute “research and critical thought?”

Where's the quantitative data?

The anti vax are like "see I told you"

Again, they’re treating it like an aha-moment when it’s not. Ontario has come out with data that suggests some males aged 18-24 might have a lower risk of developing myocarditis or pericarditis by taking the Pfizer vaccine. Both vaccines are still extremely safe and effective, and the chances of developing a major reaction are statistically very, very low.

The best part about this entire thread is that its completely irrelevant

I completely agree. The majority of society is moving forward thankfully.

You've breached the quote quota.

[photofly]

For how long? The vaccine is it. If you won't accept some sort of normal today what will change your mind?

I love how you treat this as some sort of choice. Unfortunately, we cannot just wish this disease away. Alberta is the prime example. You can't even get an ICU bed if you're in a serious car accident. Is this normal?

Are we just waiting for when we "feel" safe?

I feel safe during my day-to-day job in a customer-facing role. However, we must view this from a societal level. Again: Alberta.

let us know your list of what's not reasonable to do right now?

Ontario and Quebec seem to have done a good job of balancing opening up while maintaing enough restriction to protect the anti-vax crowd from overwhelming our health systems.

Fix the hospitals

No realistic expansion in hospital capacity will be sufficient to handle an exponential increase in serious cases. Hard restrictions will now be required in Alberta, all thanks to poor government policy and low vaccination rates.

The Alberta government certainly could have increased the AHS budget and started hiring more staff a year ago, but that would require a lot of people to be convinced that this isn't just the flu.

Exactly.

you seem like a person who can research and critically think... we need a group of people with the same views.

Oh great, another person who thinks watching Rebel News and listening to Bret Weinstein counts as research. What background do you have to analyze this data?

What company do you work for? Westjet? Hey look, I just researched this article on Westjet: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/tsb-relea ... -1.3958357

Here's proof Westjet is dangerous, therefore, no one should fly on Westjet. Look how great I am at research and critical thought.

Do you see how Googling anecdotal tidbits of information that support my argument and treating it as fact shouldn't really constitute “research and critical thought?”

Where's the quantitative data?

The anti vax are like "see I told you"

Again, they’re treating it like an aha-moment when it’s not. Ontario has come out with data that suggests some males aged 18-24 might have a lower risk of developing myocarditis or pericarditis by taking the Pfizer vaccine. Both vaccines are still extremely safe and effective, and the chances of developing a major reaction are statistically very, very low.

The best part about this entire thread is that its completely irrelevant

I completely agree. The majority of society is moving forward thankfully.

You've breached the quote quota.

No no, he’s good for a while yet.

[pecessix]

YYCyoke wrote:
you seem like a person who can research and critically think... we need a group of people with the same views.

Oh great, another person who thinks watching Rebel News and listening to Bret Weinstein counts as research. What background do you have to analyze this data?

I don't read Rebel News and I had never heard from this Bret Weinstein.
I read books and studies, and various medias (not necessarily the «rebel» ones), I listen to different points of views.
I don't spend my time on avcanada and on social medias criticizing what people say, without taking the time to read or to listen to what they say, even if they don't seem to agree with me.

You are wasting your breath with these people.

But I'm a pilot, they should trust me!!

[palebird]

How far down the rabbit hole do you have to go? This whole crisis has been manufactured. Take a day or two, take a week and look at how this all started. And where we are today. This so called ICU crisis has always been there. Majority of people do not know that. Canada's medical system is a shambles. And it will get worse. Why? Mismanagement and the demographics. It ultimately is very simple. Now the common cold and the seasonal flu are replaced by something called Covid. Think about it. Hand washing and mask wearing has virtually no effect on these diseases even though the establishment keeps on drumming it into our heads. There is a huge problem in Canada and it is called "old people" and pensions. This is overwhelming all the systems. We have been warned many many times and nobody has done a thing. So where are we? Don't know but we have lost a lot of liberties to a clown show. We are being lied to on a monumental scale. Tell me this..Why have Denmark, Sweden and Norway lifted all restrictions and downgraded Covid to a non-event alongside the common cold. I await the inspiring answer to said question.

[montado]

Except unlike masks, studies show handwashing is highly effective at stopping the spread of cold and flu.

[co-joe]

Have you heard any word how many AC pilots are refusing the jab?

[TG]

YYCyoke wrote:
you seem like a person who can research and critically think... we need a group of people with the same views.

Oh great, another person who thinks watching Rebel News and listening to Bret Weinstein counts as research. What background do you have to analyze this data?

I don't read Rebel News and I had never heard from this Bret Weinstein.
I read books and studies, and various medias (not necessarily the «rebel» ones), I listen to different points of views.
I don't spend my time on avcanada and on social medias criticizing what people say, without taking the time to read or to listen to what they say, even if they don't seem to agree with me.

You are wasting your breath with these people.

But I'm a pilot, they should trust me!!

A bunch of pilots we are yes....
Remember pilots rhythm also with idiots.

Some pilots seem to think they are experts in Virology. So much they feel confident enough (Or is that arrogant!?) To totally contradict what real experts in virology are saying. Real as those who spend their entire life studying in the domain!
Would you like hair dresser Karen flying to Cancun in seat 32B telling the crew what to do regarding decisions making? (Nasty Thunderstorms ahead) Hmmmm!? Let it sink for a minute because that's exactly what you are doing "Keep straight! Why turning, my side window is showing a blue sky!"

So yes! I'm one of the idiots who don't know any better in virology. As a consequence I let real experts in this domain decides for me, via recommandations given to politicians, bounced to us the public.
Not Karen!

Even in aviation (My domaine) I would continue to learn, ask for advices. Basically not pretend I know it all so what makes you think you know better than thousands of virologists/Scientists? It's a genuine question.....



On a side note one of the main reason why Denmark, Sweden and Norway are lifting all restrictions is their population.
They are a Lot more disciplined than us by nature (Aka, their politicians probably don't need to enforce that much silly rules for that long to have them understand what is needed)

[Counterpoint]

How far down the rabbit hole do you have to go? This whole crisis has been manufactured. Take a day or two, take a week and look at how this all started. And where we are today. This so called ICU crisis has always been there. Majority of people do not know that. Canada's medical system is a shambles. And it will get worse. Why? Mismanagement and the demographics. It ultimately is very simple. Now the common cold and the seasonal flu are replaced by something called Covid. Think about it. Hand washing and mask wearing has virtually no effect on these diseases even though the establishment keeps on drumming it into our heads. There is a huge problem in Canada and it is called "old people" and pensions. This is overwhelming all the systems. We have been warned many many times and nobody has done a thing. So where are we? Don't know but we have lost a lot of liberties to a clown show. We are being lied to on a monumental scale. Tell me this..Why have Denmark, Sweden and Norway lifted all restrictions and downgraded Covid to a non-event alongside the common cold. I await the inspiring answer to said question.

Have a scroll at the “trust in National health authorities graph” of this article. Summary : Denmark as an extremely high vaccination rate, I guess they bought the “lie”.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... it-did-it/

[Counterpoint]

I’m not sure what to think about this, I don’t think it’s going to make any difference whatsoever to the outcome. You will need to be vaccinated to do your job, ie; go to other countries and it’s a hardship for the company to accommodate your irrational decision to not.
I would feel bad for you but my patience for anti-Covid vaccine people is gone!
If you are not, you WILL be unemployed at the end of this month regardless of the federal mandate.

Which other countries require foreign crew doing their jobs to be vaccinated?

You can add American, Alaska and JetBlue to United. So to answer your question (sort of) if you do business with the US federal government - you have to be vaxed.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... es-jetblue

[montado]

On a side note one of the main reason why Denmark, Sweden and Norway are lifting all restrictions is their population.
They are a Lot more disciplined than us by nature (Aka, their politicians probably don't need to enforce that much silly rules for that long to have them understand what is needed)

Ah yes! the whole post about how we are just pilots and not experts... then you had to add at the end your Social Science Pilot research on whats really going on Why is it every time someone says follow the experts because we are not experts, they fill in with their pseudoscience?

Most posts I see here aren't in disagreement with the experts or the research. It's comments on how we look at the same data and the expert, the politician, and the pilot all have different opinions on how to deal with it. A virologist opinion on fighting a virus might be very simplistic. Close everything, stop the virus. The politician will take that and balance it with trying to maintain the economy. A virologist is not an expert on the economy. Do you think we should let Doctors run the country? Should we put Tam and Doomvilla in charge to make all political decisions because they are experts?

There's lots of pilots I would trust to fill the boots of people like Doug Ford or Trudeau, and do a better job. Its not like Trudeau and Ford are experts at pandemics.

Point is we can all listen to experts opinions but they all need to be balanced with other expert opinions because a Virologist will have no clue whats going on in the world of mental health or with the economy etc. So yes, pilots are qualified to look at the data, and have their own values, and make their own decisions and have their own opinions. You are all now officially qualified to be Human. Don't let TG tell you otherwise.

[Counterpoint]

A virologist gives advice to public health who then gives advice to Government.

The first two entities are experts, you will note that commerce is governed by government who also has to act in order to save the lives of it’s citizens while balancing commerce.

opinions from rank and file everyday citizen “researchers” are interesting but not trustworthy unless you don’t trust Public health professionals.

[palebird]

Ok then. Let's consider India. Ever been there for any length of time? If you have you know that hand washing and masks are a complete farce. And yet they are doing very well using that horse medicine among other things that the "western experts" tell us are dangerous. When 1 + 1 = 5 there is something seriously wrong. And in the western world there is something seriously wrong.

[737Maximilian]

I read books and studies, and various medias (not necessarily the «rebel» ones), I listen to different points of views.

Again, what background do you have to assess these studies and come to a conclusion contrary to the vast majority of experts?

All you've posted were random anecdotal facts that you seem to think support your claim. Where's the quantitative evidence these vaccines don't work?

Now the common cold and the seasonal flu are replaced by something called Covid.

When has a province ever had to airlift ICU patients out due to the seasonal flu?

A virologist opinion on fighting a virus might be very simplistic. Close everything, stop the virus.

The hippocratic oath demands they minimize harm. I would find it hard to believe they're not aware of the huge effects on the economy, and subsequent increases in suicide and drug abuse rates, of closing everything up completely.

Let's consider Indi

Not sure India is the place we want to mimic our health care policy, health system, or even sanitation on. Also, please show me how their COVID response has led you to believe they're doing "very well."

You keep pushing ivermectin. Is there any quantitative data to support your claim?

Why not just use the vaccine? There's tons of data to support it's both highly safe and highly effective.

[montado]

A virologist gives advice to public health who then gives advice to Government.

The first two entities are experts, you will note that commerce is governed by government who also has to act in order to save the lives of it’s citizens while balancing commerce.

opinions from rank and file everyday citizen “researchers” are interesting but not trustworthy unless you don’t trust Public health professionals.

When Doug Ford closed ski hills and golf courses what science did he use? No other government used this science that I'm aware of. Can anyone point me to the research on that one? Where did the experts see that exercise outdoors was a threat to public health? How many lives were saved by closing ski hills and golf courses? Please explain the science and facts to me, I need to learn how this works. Apparently I'm a dumb pilot and cant understand science at this high level. probably need to be a doctor to understand this top notch stuff!

[Bingo Fuel]

When Doug Ford closed ski hills and golf courses what science did he use?

Good question. Who are you going to vote for in the next provincial election?

[montado]

When Doug Ford closed ski hills and golf courses what science did he use?

Good question. Who are you going to vote for in the next provincial election?

Not DOFO lol

[Bingo Fuel]

When Doug Ford closed ski hills and golf courses what science did he use?

Good question. Who are you going to vote for in the next provincial election?

Not DOFO lol

We know who you're voting against. Who are you voting for?

[737Maximilian]

Can anyone point me to the research on that one?

The science was clear: minimize contact during an outbreak of a viral disease.

Now, how policies were implemented is something I'm sure will be debated for decades to come. There were likely a lot of errors early on, driven by fear and a lack of information, but I mean, look at Alberta's recent policy errors now.

[Counterpoint]

A virologist gives advice to public health who then gives advice to Government.

The first two entities are experts, you will note that commerce is governed by government who also has to act in order to save the lives of it’s citizens while balancing commerce.

opinions from rank and file everyday citizen “researchers” are interesting but not trustworthy unless you don’t trust Public health professionals.

When Doug Ford closed ski hills and golf courses what science did he use? No other government used this science that I'm aware of. Can anyone point me to the research on that one? Where did the experts see that exercise outdoors was a threat to public health? How many lives were saved by closing ski hills and golf courses? Please explain the science and facts to me, I need to learn how this works. Apparently I'm a dumb pilot and cant understand science at this high level. probably need to be a doctor to understand this top notch stuff!

It’s a moving target - did Public health officials steer him to conclude that was a good idea at he time ? perhaps

Virologists are the science > public health are the recommended policy makers > Governments are the rule makers. It’s a moving target, they will make mistakes, but their intentions are based on Public health. Jason Kenney is another good example of a failed policy, but he went the complete other way to the example you’ve given. Which is better ?

If you are a pilot, stay in your lane (as they say now) and trust public health officials (experts). Your arguments are weak and concentrate on silliness instead of public health officials guidance.

[montado]

Good question. Who are you going to vote for in the next provincial election?

Not DOFO lol

We know who you're voting against. Who are you voting for?

I think I asked some much more intellectual thought provoking questions on the previous page, why don’t we focus on that rather than ask how someone is voting in an election that’s a year away.

We have been told pilots are to dumb to understand science. I just wanted to see the data and science on closing ski and golf. Is there any data anywhere to suggest lives were saved and it was good public health policy to close ski and golf? Anywhere? Anyone have an answer? Any data? Did it stop any covid spread? Com’on I’m just a dummy pilot, show me the data so I can understand. Peoples lives were turned upside down closing down their livelihoods. What for?