Take the vaccine, or lose your job - WTF?

[Counterpoint]

You do realize that vax rates are considerably higher this season than last season right ? It’s a moving target.

[Bingo Fuel]

so why not close ski hills this year?

I agree, ski hills should stay open. How do we make sure they do?

Why? Don’t you care about saving lives? Don’t we need to listen to the experts? Or did the experts get it wrong? The news media makes it look like Alberta is worse off this winter than last. Maybe Ontario can open, but Alberta is shipping bodies all over because it’s out of control. Will closing ski hills help them?

No, it won't. I've already agreed with you. You're right. Do you want me to argue with you? Is this what all this is for?

[altiplano]

You can add American, Alaska and JetBlue to United. So to answer your question (sort of) if you do business with the US federal government - you have to be vaxed.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... es-jetblue

Wrong again.

US Feds offer weekly testing as an alternative under this program.

Okay, so this is the answer? How often should we get tested? Should we be forced to come in on our days off to get tested? How do we make this happen? You're the expert, tell us.

I'm only commenting on the US program specifics.

But since you mention it, we already have guys coming in on their days off to get tested for a couple routes, vaxxed or not. We also have a company wide voluntary testing program with high levels of participation.

[montado]

You do realize that vax rates are considerably higher this season than last season right ? It’s a moving target.

LOL. No shit. So why any reason for any restrictions....

DELTA!

[montado]

Ah so bingo fuel you are in agreement that the experts got it wrong with skiing. Cool. Well I called that a year ago. I guess a dumb pilot sometimes is smarter than the experts.

[Bingo Fuel]

Ah so bingo fuel you are in agreement that the experts got it wrong with skiing. Cool. Well I called that a year ago. I guess a dumb pilot sometimes is smarter than the experts.

Yeah.

I know you called it.

We all know you called it.

It's all you ever talk about.

So what are you DOING about it?

Let's stop complaining, and actually accomplish something.

[montado]

Ah so bingo fuel you are in agreement that the experts got it wrong with skiing. Cool. Well I called that a year ago. I guess a dumb pilot sometimes is smarter than the experts.

Yeah.

I know you called it.

We all know you called it.

It's all you ever talk about.

So what are you DOING about it?

Let's stop complaining, and actually accomplish something.

Ah no I was just making a point to TGs post about how we should just listen to the experts but glad to see some people see the experts get it wrong lots of the time.

I don't care what people do with the information. Maybe just stop calling people to dumb to understand and listen to the experts. Maybe keep questioning the experts and hold them accountable. That's a good start.

[Bingo Fuel]

Ah so bingo fuel you are in agreement that the experts got it wrong with skiing. Cool. Well I called that a year ago. I guess a dumb pilot sometimes is smarter than the experts.

Yeah.

I know you called it.

We all know you called it.

It's all you ever talk about.

So what are you DOING about it?

Let's stop complaining, and actually accomplish something.

Ah no I was just making a point to TGs post about how we should just listen to the experts but glad to see some people see the experts get it wrong lots of the time.

I don't care what people do with the information. Maybe just stop calling people to dumb to understand and listen to the experts. Maybe keep questioning the experts and hold them accountable. That's a good start.

Yeah, that's rough. You've been dragged through a lot of stuff, and been the subject of a lot of attacks here. That's sucks, and you're absolutely not dumb.

Okay, so we question the experts. We've been doing that for 19 months. What mechanisms do we have to hold them accountable? Is this something solved through legal action?

[montado]

Hey it’s quite simple to me, and many of these things I have said from the beginning. I’m against arbitrary government rule. You know one reason these pandemic policies are dragging out like they do? IMO it’s because the strong majority of people have benefit from the pandemic. CERB, work from home etc. A good 70 percent of the workforce actually enjoyed the pandemic. Teachers got to work from home etc.

I had personally benefit from the pandemic.

However, unlike your average joe, I’m not interested in what’s right for me I am interested in what’s right for all. I don’t own a ski hill, and I don’t ski and I don’t golf. Personally I actually don’t give one hoot about the closures. What I do care about is government rule. Behind each government arbitrary unscientific policy is the 30 percent of people most impacted by the pandemic. I’m part of the 70 percent who is on the side of sheer luck, but I am willing to fight for the 30 percent getting fucked over by government. If a policy is implemented that shows no scientific explanation for a need to implement such policies, I will stand on the right side of history and that is standing for what is not right for me, but what is right for all. Being a passive bystander just means the day government decides arbitrarily that it’s “my turn” they might just decide for no scientific reason at all that my life needs to get fucked up.

So what do I do, well I have corresponded with my MPP and Doug Ford. I asked for his explanation for his actions and never got good answers. He knows he will lose my vote. I can’t vote for a guy that says “open for business” and then closes a business for no good reason. He didn’t offer to let hills stay open and make it so they had similar restrictions such as mask indoors and no chalet indoor dining. He simply said it’s not safe, you must close. Today we can reflect on that and see it was completely anti science, and a made up arbitrary policy that was not based on the science at the time, or the science we have today. Simple as that. Doug for needs to be held accountable. Everyone here who says listen to the experts look at the gong show going on, Wake up! You don’t have to be a virologist to call out stupidity.

[Bingo Fuel]

Hey it’s quite simple to me, and many of these things I have said from the beginning. I’m against arbitrary government rule. You know one reason these pandemic policies are dragging out like they do? IMO it’s because the strong majority of people have benefit from the pandemic. CERB, work from home etc. A good 70 percent of the workforce actually enjoyed the pandemic. Teachers got to work from home etc.

I had personally benefit from the pandemic.

However, unlike your average joe, I’m not interested in what’s right for me I am interested in what’s right for all. I don’t own a ski hill, and I don’t ski and I don’t golf. Personally I actually don’t give one hoot about the closures. What I do care about is government rule. Behind each government arbitrary unscientific policy is the 30 percent of people most impacted by the pandemic. I’m part of the 70 percent who is on the side of sheer luck, but I am willing to fight for the 30 percent getting fucked over by government. If a policy is implemented that shows no scientific explanation for a need to implement such policies, I will stand on the right side of history and that is standing for what is not right for me, but what is right for all. Being a passive bystander just means the day government decides arbitrarily that it’s “my turn” they might just decide for no scientific reason at all that my life needs to get fucked up.

So what do I do, well I have corresponded with my MPP and Doug Ford. I asked for his explanation for his actions and never got good answers. He knows he will lose my vote. I can’t vote for a guy that says “open for business” and then closes a business for no good reason. He didn’t offer to let hills stay open and make it so they had similar restrictions such as mask indoors and no chalet indoor dining. He simply said it’s not safe, you must close. Today we can reflect on that and see it was completely anti science, and a made up arbitrary policy that was not based on the science at the time, or the science we have today. Simple as that. Doug for needs to be held accountable. Everyone here who says listen to the experts look at the gong show going on, Wake up! You don’t have to be a virologist to call out stupidity.

Okay, so let's game this out. Assume everyone here is on your side. We all want to hold Doug Ford accountable. He will not provide satisfactory responses to letter writing. We know the Media won't work. There are people fighting mandates. Randy Hillier. Chris Sky. Are they worth supporting? Will they produce results?

There is an election coming, but who will bring the change we're looking for?

EDIT: Doug Ford has already started campaigning. Any opposition to him needs to start NOW. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/ontar ... -1.5611377

[Counterpoint]

You didn’t understand the European ski hill report.

Public health make recommendations on available scientific data they’ve collected or modelled. They close ski hills and golf clubs at the time based on that data. Last year hardly anyone was vaxed. This year more are vaxed. There are rules and recommendations for last year that may not apply to this year. Looking back and making comment about the future is futile because the recommendations based on science and data collection change, because it’s a moving target.

Making a statement about an old rule or recommendation negates the data at the time. Future-casting that those that do the collection and recommendations are error prone is silly, because you discount the science and data collection at the time.

Clusters, new variants and a lack of a vaccine at the time were the worry and therefore produced the rules and recommendations. Can’t you see that ? Or is an old rule and recommendation based on science and data collection at the time, all you need to discount Public health and government officials.

[Counterpoint]

Wrong again.

US Feds offer weekly testing as an alternative under this program.

Okay, so this is the answer? How often should we get tested? Should we be forced to come in on our days off to get tested? How do we make this happen? You're the expert, tell us.

I'm only commenting on the US program specifics.

But since you mention it, we already have guys coming in on their days off to get tested for a couple routes, vaxxed or not. We also have a company wide voluntary testing program with high levels of participation.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could replace the testing with a vaccine ? Or, are so incredibly well researched (far more than the virologists, vaccine producers, public health and front line medical professionals) that you see a flaw in that line of thinking ?

[montado]

Counterpoint, simple question for you that you still haven't answered, so for the third time... If people are not skiing or golfing, what is the alternate activity they will engage in and what is the risk of covid spread at this activity. Is that net result then a net benefit to public health? Instead of golfing then popping beers with the buds after golf, did people just pop beers with the buds without the golf? How much covid spread was prevented, do we have that data yet a year after the fact?

I understand that with vaccines things should be different, So yes its quite possible a policy this winter will be different than last.

I think we know the answer to my question. This is why public health should not micro manage the pandemic with arbitrary policy. Make policy simple and effective. As much as I hate masks, its very simple (maybe effective at times). You can simply say we are in a pandemic, wear a mask. Closing ski hills and golf is just dumb.

[palebird]

While Canadians get into extended theatrics over this Covid nonsense nobody is answering some basic questions:

"Norway reclassified Covid as ordinary flu.
Croatia's president calls out vaccine insanity.
Brazil's president doesn't want to support vaccine passport/restrictions.
Denmark lifted restrictions.
Sweden lifted restrictions
Ireland plans to lift restriction later this month.
What's wrong with the Canadian variant??"

India conquered Covid using Ivermectin. Most of the third world uses Ivermectin as well as Hydroxychloroquine. These are medications that do not make enormous profits for pharmaceutical giants.
Take a look at the resignation of Australian premier Gladys Berejiklians. Labeled as perhaps the most corrupt Australian politician ever. She loved the lockdowns. What seems to be the problem here?

[montado]

Stockholm syndrome?

Our government is a terrorist that keeps beating us down then throwing us a carrot. At this point people are just madly in love with our captors as we have learned to love that manipulation and feel safe under their rule. Hell half the people here say we should question nothing and just listen to the experts. Yeah definitely some Stockholm syndrome.

“Oh yes DOFO close those ski hills, save our lives, we Lubs how you look out for us…. Tell us what should we do? Sit at home and get fat… yes DOFO anything for you. You are a hero saving our lives, anything you say we will follow!”

[Bingo Fuel]

While Canadians get into extended theatrics over this Covid nonsense nobody is answering some basic questions:

"Norway reclassified Covid as ordinary flu.
Croatia's president calls out vaccine insanity.
Brazil's president doesn't want to support vaccine passport/restrictions.
Denmark lifted restrictions.
Sweden lifted restrictions
Ireland plans to lift restriction later this month.
What's wrong with the Canadian variant??"

India conquered Covid using Ivermectin. Most of the third world uses Ivermectin as well as Hydroxychloroquine. These are medications that do not make enormous profits for pharmaceutical giants.
Take a look at the resignation of Australian premier Gladys Berejiklians. Labeled as perhaps the most corrupt Australian politician ever. She loved the lockdowns. What seems to be the problem here?

Okay, let me summarize your key points:

1) COVID is endemic and should be treated like the flu
2) Vaccine passports should not be used
3) COVID restrictions should be lifted
4) Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine should be approved

How do we plan to accomplish these goals? Is arguing on a pilot forum helping to achieve our mission? What steps do we need to take?

[ikarus]

The street...

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ontar ... I1vM2SgDjI

[ikarus]

On another note... Pfizer scientists say you're own immunity is good or better then the vaccines. But you guys will call this video a conspiracy theory as well.

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/pfi ... ccination/

[Bingo Fuel]

Okay. More good points. So we take to the streets? Isn't that what Chris Sky has been doing every weekend? Is that how we make a difference?

[Counterpoint]

I understand that with vaccines things should be different, So yes its quite possible a policy this winter will be different than last.

Policy will be different this winter. But because its a moving target, they might tighten up or loosen up rules and restrictions.

This quote from your post makes my point. I’m satisfied you’ve finally understood.

[montado]

I understand that with vaccines things should be different, So yes its quite possible a policy this winter will be different than last.

Policy will be different this winter. But because its a moving target, they might tighten up or loosen up rules and restrictions.

This quote from your post makes my point. I’m satisfied you’ve finally understood.

But you still refuse to answer the question. I'm satisfied you ignore the question because you know the policy was completely idiotic and not science based. Glad we are on the same page .

Maybe TG and all those "follow the expert" lemmings will stop recruiting sheep.

[Inverted2]

I think our rivers, ditches and storm drains will be plugged with blue masks before they ever lift any restrictions.

[Bingo Fuel]

Hey it’s quite simple to me, and many of these things I have said from the beginning. I’m against arbitrary government rule. You know one reason these pandemic policies are dragging out like they do? IMO it’s because the strong majority of people have benefit from the pandemic. CERB, work from home etc. A good 70 percent of the workforce actually enjoyed the pandemic. Teachers got to work from home etc.

I had personally benefit from the pandemic.

However, unlike your average joe, I’m not interested in what’s right for me I am interested in what’s right for all. I don’t own a ski hill, and I don’t ski and I don’t golf. Personally I actually don’t give one hoot about the closures. What I do care about is government rule. Behind each government arbitrary unscientific policy is the 30 percent of people most impacted by the pandemic. I’m part of the 70 percent who is on the side of sheer luck, but I am willing to fight for the 30 percent getting fucked over by government. If a policy is implemented that shows no scientific explanation for a need to implement such policies, I will stand on the right side of history and that is standing for what is not right for me, but what is right for all. Being a passive bystander just means the day government decides arbitrarily that it’s “my turn” they might just decide for no scientific reason at all that my life needs to get fucked up.

You've spent 19 months arguing about mask mandates, vaccinating children, and the "experts". Nothing has changed. Want to think like a pilot? On the TEM model you're deep into reactionary territory, and society is in a UAS. You're still complaining about last winter's policies, but you still refuse to answer the question: how do we fix it?

You claim to fight for the little guy. Noble. I haven't heard you say a single thing about helping the furloughed get back to work. How does abolishing mask mandates and cancelling the experts help them?

I will tell you what we agree on, though. We both want to get rid of Doug Ford.

[Aviatard]

On another note... Pfizer scientists say you're own immunity is good or better then the vaccines. But you guys will call this video a conspiracy theory as well.

*link deleted*

Bullshit post from a known bullshit site.

[Counterpoint]

I understand that with vaccines things should be different, So yes its quite possible a policy this winter will be different than last.

Policy will be different this winter. But because its a moving target, they might tighten up or loosen up rules and restrictions.

This quote from your post makes my point. I’m satisfied you’ve finally understood.

But you still refuse to answer the question. I'm satisfied you ignore the question because you know the policy was completely idiotic and not science based. Glad we are on the same page .

Maybe TG and all those "follow the expert" lemmings will stop recruiting sheep.

Do you mean the question about what the difference between not closing a ski center or golf club versus leaving it open during the first wave with no vax available ?

if so, the already mentioned article should satisfy as a suitable answer. But if not, then the answer would be a number greater than not closing the ski hills considering there are usually no large gatherings in a friend’s garage or home, no queuing, no close distancing in lavatories etc. Note also that you frame your question with a comparison which would have no retrievable data in individual substitutions for going to a ski hill or golf club. As answered before, restrictions with no vaccine available were very restrictive and remained so until they weren’t.

But now I see you understand that post-vax is different than pre-vax, so you finally getting to the real stuff which will lead you to the trust required in following public health official’s.

It’s a moving target, right ?