No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

[Montroyal]

So as long as a Legacy carrier pilot makes more than a low cost carrier - they can't be asking questions?

Curious on all the other comparisons we lag behind on: When do other airlines with actual unions get their schedules? 10 days prior?

Ever ask an airline pilot down south? We suck in every single regard


All 3 sympathizers on here that try to fabricate a narrative that it is only a handful of people that are furious with the direction of this "union" is comical at best.

The day of reckoning is coming soon - hopefully the believers respect the will of the membership when it is formally decided "ACPA: just not good enough"

[QKZXKV]

So as long as a Legacy carrier pilot makes more than a low cost carrier - they can't be asking questions?

Curious on all the other comparisons we lag behind on: When do other airlines with actual unions get their schedules? 10 days prior?

Ever ask an airline pilot down south? We suck in every single regard


All 3 sympathizers on here that try to fabricate a narrative that it is only a handful of people that are furious with the direction of this "union" is comical at best.

The day of reckoning is coming soon - hopefully the believers respect the will of the membership when it is formally decided "ACPA: just not good enough"

I dub those who are "sympathizers" as our "astronauts". It's the old boy's club that serves the top tier.

[iflyroads]

Emails went out to 301 pilots last night.

However only 100 training slots available between Oct and December.

787 RP - YYZ/YUL
220 FO - YYZ/YUL
737 FO - YYZ/YUL
330 FO - YYZ/YUL
320 FO - YWG

For now the plan is to recall approximately 100~ pilots every 3 months. If demand picks up even further and the training resources allow, that will change.


Important to note the company doesn't have to pay anyone till first day of training.

[rudder]

Emails went out to 301 pilots last night.

However only 100 training slots available between Oct and December.

787 RP - YYZ/YUL
220 FO - YYZ/YUL
737 FO - YYZ/YUL
330 FO - YYZ/YUL
320 FO - YWG

For now the plan is to recall approximately 100~ pilots every 3 months. If demand picks up even further and the training resources allow, that will change.


Important to note the company doesn't have to pay anyone till first day of training.

Wow. So number 301 might not be back on payroll until June 2022?

What about numbers 302-600? 2022? 2023?

[iflyroads]

Emails went out to 301 pilots last night.

However only 100 training slots available between Oct and December.

787 RP - YYZ/YUL
220 FO - YYZ/YUL
737 FO - YYZ/YUL
330 FO - YYZ/YUL
320 FO - YWG

For now the plan is to recall approximately 100~ pilots every 3 months. If demand picks up even further and the training resources allow, that will change.


Important to note the company doesn't have to pay anyone till first day of training.

Wow. So number 301 might not be back on payroll until June 2022?

What about numbers 302-600? 2022? 2023?

The 100 every 3 months is just an estimation for now. As mentioned if the demand and training capacity line up that can change.


A few defferals are expected and there have been a few resignations. Not a significant number to affect recall timelines though.

Last I looked there were 591 on furlough prior to this most recent bid.

[737Maximilian]

Wow. So number 301 might not be back on payroll until June 2022?

What about numbers 302-600? 2022? 2023?

As someone on the back end of the 600, being back before the summer of 2023 would be my guess.

[EPR]

the sad thing is altiplano, is you can't even be civil towards your own brothers and sisters just because they don't share your view. what's next beating them up in the parking lot? or in the flightdeck should the conversation come up? being militant isn't going to further your endeavours. i think you need to take a break and get some fresh air or get laid.

Actually redbusdriver, as a member of your "rank and file", you deserve the "soap bars in socks treatment" (Full Metal Jacket style) while you lay in your crash-pad top-bunk...while annoying everyone else in the room, shame on you!

[loudmouth]

Don't forget, this recall process puts all the power in the companies hands. Many pilots will be forced to take what's offered or defer until the next 100, and cost them money, YOS, pension etc. as there is NO bypass pay. Jr pilot assigned training before you? Too bad for you, no bypass pay.. even though pilots have no control over training slots... how is this fair? It's a blatant contract violation to not allow bidding of any vacancy upon recall notice. All the while every single furloughed Jazz pilot has been on payroll since end of August and just completed a bid where EVERYONE got to bid, and exercise their seniority rights for the position THEY WANTED and could hold. FFS there's only FOUR 787RP slots for the first 102 positions! How the @#$! did we end up here. So much for having seniority. Lots of pissed off pilots, the chat groups have been rumbling.

ACPA fucked this up just like they @#$! everything up.

Thanks for fighting for our furloughed pilots. Oh wait, you rolled over yet again because anyone not on the DB doesn't matter to you. It's fantastic that you resigned Mike, good riddance. It's too bad you couldn't take the CEO and Negots Chair with you out the door.

[WhatThe?]

You don't think Mike is heading directly to management? I give it 6 weeks before he goes.....

[iflyroads]

Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.

[RippleRock]

Yes welcome back, however, when you were gone, and couldn't voice your opinion on things, our "wonderful custodians and unfailing crusaders" of our contract changed your future a bit...again.

This was done in fine ACPA tradition. Welcome to "best fit reserve" and "hourly POR's"........enjoy.

The "widebody leadership" at your union who would likely never sit it, thought thought it a fine permanent concession to make on your behalf. What did you get for it? What do you think.

If you're sick and tired of your MEC making backroom deals and slipping permanent turds into the contract, vote for change. There are three NMEC seats up for grabs.

[NotDirty!]

Welcome to "best fit reserve" and "hourly POR's"........enjoy.

For the commuter who now has to sit reserve, this sounds like a “best fit” for that awesome motel at Dixie and Derry with hourly rates! Because why bother paying for the whole night when you just need an hour or two.

[bob99]

Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.

Almost 60 guys bypassed too. Recalls for the first 102 spots rolled down all the way to about #160 on the list.

[iflyroads]

Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.

Almost 60 guys bypassed too. Recalls for the first 102 spots rolled down all the way to about #160 on the list.

Correct.

Expecting the next ~100 spots to be available for bidding around December. With recall emails for them going out in the new year.

Hopefully I'm wrong and it's sooner.

[alkaseltzer]

Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.

Almost 60 guys bypassed too. Recalls for the first 102 spots rolled down all the way to about #160 on the list.

Where is this published? PM if you can.

[bob99]

It's not published. This is from talking with those people directly. But it should be on the next training report.

[RightPlaceWrongTime]

Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.

[imjustlurking]

Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.

Are you saying that AC is not the best airline in Canada?

[TheStig]

Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.

The history of TA1, the Group of 27, the membership upheaval and the Final Offer Selection is fairly well covered here and well known by the membership. What isn't often recognized is that the foundation of ACPA was forged in the Furloughs of the early 90's. It was well before my time, but I've certainly flown with enough pilots who lived through ACPA first 10 years to see the similarities to the current environment. Pilots furloughed became long standing, high profile, key figures for 30+ years and counting and the majority of the despised Group of 27. It's almost like Harvey Dents' quote in the Dark Knight, "You can either die a Hero and live long enough to become a Villain." So while I like all the things P4C are saying, many of us feel like we've seen and heard this all before.

[RRJetPilot]

Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.

I did not get laid off but feel the same way. ACPA and MM has completely failed us.

[asleep_at_the_yoke]

Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.

If this was Reddit I'd literally pay money to give you gold. Couldn't have said it better.

[200Above]

Are there any other furloughs out there that are developing a resentment towards the company and association that is supposed to represent them. As somebody who has proudly worn the AC uniform in the past and had high praise for the company, I am worried that I will forever carry a resentment towards AC and ACPA for the duration of my career.

In the last 2 years I have witnessed our regional carriers represent their employees with dignity and respect. ie. CEWS, Union correspondents, FULL RECALL FOR ALL PILOTS, and recently raises at Jazz.

Meanwhile over here at the NHL we were rode hard and put away wet. No CEWS, exiled from ACPA updates, scope violations as flying was shuffled to Jazz, cargo concessions, vacation buy backs, best fit, management bonuses. Im sick and tired of being F***ed over by this company and swept under the rug by ACPA. And I have a sneaking suspicion that 600 others feel the same way.

Pilots have exhausted benefits, savings, sold homes all so that we can survive long enough to return to a Junior lifestyle slaving away in a city none of us can afford for a company that doesn't respect us.

I personally have an axe to grind and intend to get every last nickel back from this company and then some for how we treated our pilots.

It is time the P4C group puts their money where their mouth is. Nut up and take the company head on. Playing nice and giving the company IOU's has gotten us nowhere. We are at a crossroads as a profession here in Canada. There is no time to play nice. We must draw the line in the sand and all unite behind it.

Articulated beautifully. I would have expected this from my previous employers (or other companies in general), but not AC. I thought this place was above all that.

Shame on me, as I continue to be heavily disappointed with how we have been treated.

[a220hereicome]

Welcome to "best fit reserve" and "hourly POR's"........enjoy.

The "widebody leadership" at your union who would likely never sit it, thought thought it a fine permanent concession to make on your behalf. What did you get for it? What do you think.

RippleRock.

I'll tell you what we got for it.

I've been on reserve for most of COVID, and to me, the new rules are much better. Most of my days off in a reserve month are guaranteed now, including a block of four straight days. And I'll be paid 5 hours more each month (when I don't fly out which is most of the time).

For this, in certain cases I'll have less control over being able to pass on a specific pairing, on days I'm supposed to be available to fly.

This wasn't given away. It was negotiated.

Before, it was, "Don't plan anything next month honey, I'm on reserve."

Now it's, "I'm on reserve, but here are four blocks of days where we can plan something."

[altiplano]

Best fit only started this month. So how is it that you have been working under it all through covid?

You now have zero control on the type of flying you do, the company controls your reserve availability periods without any say from you.

No more passing trips you don't want or selecting trips you want. You are completely under the whim of the scheduler.

This was a huge give, and very notable that the membership was never asked or surveyed on a completely new reserve system.

You say that we get few hours more guarantee? Not only would I not trade my lifestyle for a few hours pay, they will now be so much more efficient that pays for more than a few hours to us and it will save them a pile of money. Not to mention that once they get it dialed in they will work it out that you will earn all that guarantee... guarantee will be irrelevant because you will be at work the whole time anyway.

[Inverted2]

We’ve had “best fit” at Jazz for about 10 years. Basically when someone in crew scheduling calls, you have to go in. No picking flying you like or passing. It sucks if you’re senior. You could have 5 junior pilots to you but if you have 3 days of reserve and there’s a 3 day pairing, off you go. Crew scheduling owns you more or less.