Inverted2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:53 am
We’ve had “best fit” at Jazz for about 10 years. Basically when someone in crew scheduling calls, you have to go in. No picking flying you like or passing. It sucks if you’re senior. You could have 5 junior pilots to you but if you have 3 days of reserve and there’s a 3 day pairing, off you go. Crew scheduling owns you more or less.
The best fit you have at Jazz is NOTHING like the dumpster fire of an agreement our negotiating committee came up with.
I lived the Jazz best fit life for a few years and it wasn't bad at all. Biddable RAPs, blockholder rights etc are a huge difference. Plus you are wrong, I passed on flying a lot. I can count on one hand the amount of times I was truely forced to fly via best fit. AC is assigning RAPs we can't bid them, and up to 10-15 different ones per day all an hour apart so they can say everyone is best fit all the time.
altiplano wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:30 am
Best fit only started this month. So how is it that you have been working under it all through covid?
You now have zero control on the type of flying you do, the company controls your reserve availability periods without any say from you.
No more passing trips you don't want or selecting trips you want. You are completely under the whim of the scheduler.
This was a huge give, and very notable that the membership was never asked or surveyed on a completely new reserve system.
You say that we get few hours more guarantee? Not only would I not trade my lifestyle for a few hours pay, they will now be so much more efficient that pays for more than a few hours to us and it will save them a pile of money. Not to mention that once they get it dialed in they will work it out that you will earn all that guarantee... guarantee will be irrelevant because you will be at work the whole time anyway.
Not to mention the few extra hours pay doesn't mean anything anymore because we all get 900 annual guarantee now. Including reserve.
altiplano wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:30 am
Best fit only started this month. So how is it that you have been working under it all through covid?
Didn't say that.
I said I've been on reserve for most of the last year and a half. All of that was obviously under the old rules, which means I have a good understanding of how crappy the old rules were. Old reserve rules = no ability to plan anything in your month.
The new rules give me the ability to build a family calendar with way more certainty.
Under the old rules, I didn't plan events on days I was on reserve, because I could be called out to fly. But I couldn't really plan much on days off that were 'optional' either. They would always slide.
At least now I have the ability to plan on my days off, which are more guaranteed.
asleep_at_the_yoke wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:00 am
Not to mention the few extra hours pay doesn't mean anything anymore because we all get 900 annual guarantee now. Including reserve.
Sorry, don't buy that argument.
900 hours works out to 75 hours/month. When we spool up again, and are chronically short again (and we all know it's coming), we'll all be blocked to 85 hours/month. Which means you'll be paid 83 hours on reserve, instead of 78 hours.
The Company signed the 900 hour guarantee because they know they won't have to pay it. We're going to be flying way more than 900 hours/year.
dumpsterfire wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:22 pm
Of course you got guaranteed days off now - THE GOVERNMENT MADE IT SO
Only in ACPALand can a government imposed policy be sold as an ACPA WIN TO THE MEMBERSHIP
Nope.
The additional G days were negotiated in the collective agreement. They weren't put there because of CARS. As long as you get the minimum number of days off in a month, you're legal. Even if the days off slide around.
One of the biggest complaints about our reserve system (and I heard it a lot), was, "We should have more G days, like Jazz". So ACPA fixed it.
Why don't you show us where the CARS state that days off have to be G days?
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Last edited by a220hereicome on Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
dumpsterfire wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:22 pm
Of course you got guaranteed days off now - THE GOVERNMENT MADE IT SO
Only in ACPALand can a government imposed policy be sold as an ACPA WIN TO THE MEMBERSHIP
Nope.
The additional G days were negotiated in the collective agreement. They weren't put there because of CARS. As long as you get the minimum number of days off in a month, you're legal. Even if the days off slide around.
One of the biggest complaints about our reserve system (and I heard it a lot), was, "We should have more G days, like Jazz". So we fixed it.
Why don't you show us where the CARS state that days off have to be G days?
It's not too hard to figure out who is who here.
I mean there is literally one fan of "Best Fit" - the guy who negotiated it
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Whats funny about all this kiden garden fight is that this agreement was voted for at 77%. I dont get why everybody is angry about best fit when the majority voted for it. Personally I voted no to this AIP for other reasons, but I rather have control on my days off when I sit senior on reserve than be able to pass the whole month so I can live with it and I respect the choice that WE made. Can we look forward now as a group and stop this toxic BS.
nowind wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:32 pm
Whats funny about all this kiden garden fight is that this agreement was voted for at 77%. I dont get why everybody is angry about best fit when the majority voted for it. Personally I voted no to this AIP for other reasons, but I rather have control on my days off when I sit senior on reserve than be able to pass the whole month so I can live with it and I respect the choice that WE made. Can we look forward now as a group and stop this toxic BS.
The deal was not properly explained. And it was grouped in with a bunch of other things like the MOA extension and bringing surplus back active. You think people at large dug into the best fit language? You know a lot of pilots just vote yes because the union tells them it's good, right?
Additionally a lot of the issues we're finding now were not obvious back when the bare language was released. Such as the company assigning 15 different RAP periods per day. The deal stinks and it's really only now we're seeing how bad.
The fact the architects of the deal are STILL defending it is laughable. I'd have a bit more respect for them if they said "yeah guys sorry we fucked up".
asleep_at_the_yoke wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:24 pm
The deal was not properly explained...
Or you were asleep at the yoke?
Sorry, that one was too easy
Carry on with your discussion.
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No, it was that it was not explained.
Typical ACPA sell job, misleading and incomplete information, limited time for the membership to decide and discuss before the vote, controlled webinar with preselected questions, emotional blackmail and innuendo, from the surplus pilots' future to "do you think you can do better in arbitration."
Counterpoint wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:51 am
Okay….what exactly didn’t you like about the last deal?
Leave the toxicity for a bit and spell out your real concerns.
Ok here's four
1) RAPS. lack of any black and white language. No ability to bid raps like other airlines, no language around what best fit really means. Leaving a lot to CS interpretation. Company making 10-15 raps a day 30 mins apart to get around "all things equal" wording which means little to nothing to begin with. Lots of people complaining on all the chat groups about this. Company being allowed to move RAPs (other mature airlines with RAPs don't allow this).
2) best fit. Just the whole implementation and language as usual is the air Canada way aka doing things differently than what's pretty common in the industry.
3) lack of defining what a red eye is. Like really?
Counterpoint wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:51 am
Okay….what exactly didn’t you like about the last deal?
Leave the toxicity for a bit and spell out your real concerns.
“Best fit” equals less pilots required. We have furloughs.
Vacation buy backs for October November. We have furloughs.
But overall Best fit sucks. Huge give with a couple of Gdays in return and slightly better pay. These RAPS turn seniority on its head. Did ACPA even see that one coming?
All of this when the membership told ACPA, in a survey, they did NOT want to negotiate in the current environment.
Personally I don’t want ACPA negotiating at all. Every time I hear they are talking to the company I get a sinking feeling.
It's honestly embarrassing to see how much was lost throughout the course of this pandemic. All the while, our furloughed have been treated worse than at any other large airline in Canada. The NHL is starting to feel like Timbits U7 at this point.
Thank god we're going to start to getting some new union leadership at the helm.
Counterpoint wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:56 am
I thought all the days in POR block were going to Gdays ?
Isn’t that better ?
Also, if you do work on those Gdays it’s double time no ? And don’t they give you the Gdays back ?
Ah yes a few extra dollarydoos to lose complete control over your seniority. No biddable RAPs is ridiculous. As is the company putting unlimited RAPs all 30 mins apart to get around best fit.
