Best guess when hiring will happen

[asleep_at_the_yoke]

Given the excess vacancies on the AC bid released today, and the fact the most of our new hires have to come from Jazz I imagine OTS hiring at Jazz will start pretty soon.

[rudder]

Given the excess vacancies on the AC bid released today, and the fact the most of our new hires have to come from Jazz I imagine OTS hiring at Jazz will start pretty soon.

More likely Jazz pilots start to move to AC September 2022 and that will coincide with Jazz hiring.

The training pipeline for both carriers is full. There is an outside chance that hiring could start by June. Would depend on sim availability (Jazz does not use offshore sim resources) and instructor availability (summer - good luck!)

[link821]

Given the excess vacancies on the AC bid released today, and the fact the most of our new hires have to come from Jazz I imagine OTS hiring at Jazz will start pretty soon.

More likely Jazz pilots start to move to AC September 2022 and that will coincide with Jazz hiring.

The training pipeline for both carriers is full. There is an outside chance that hiring could start by June. Would depend on sim availability (Jazz does not use offshore sim resources) and instructor availability (summer - good luck!)

Given that the March 14th 2020 class doesn’t go to training till March or April its probably safe to say hiring will be soon after that?

[Outlaw58]

Given the excess vacancies on the AC bid released today, and the fact the most of our new hires have to come from Jazz I imagine OTS hiring at Jazz will start pretty soon.

More likely Jazz pilots start to move to AC September 2022 and that will coincide with Jazz hiring.

The training pipeline for both carriers is full. There is an outside chance that hiring could start by June. Would depend on sim availability (Jazz does not use offshore sim resources) and instructor availability (summer - good luck!)

As Rudder mentioned, many are being requalified on their previous type that may not be what they were awarded in the bid. This is especially true for the EMB75 where there is a need to fill seats well before the first few pilot qualified through initials are going to be ready. Just because you see training in Sep-Oct does not mean ALL pilots won't be trained til then, it only means they won't be trained on their awarded position until then. ALL pilots should be trained on a type before the summer (makes no sense to shut down the training mill for the summer if there are untrained pilots getting paid at home doing nothing)

Hiring in the fall is more than possible, especially if AC is publishing vacancies. Being the optimistic kind, I would even dare to say summer .

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[rudder]

Given that the March 14th 2020 class doesn’t go to training till March or April its probably safe to say hiring will be soon after that?

The current plan is that ALL Jazz pilots will be qualified and flying for summer 2022. Also planned that NONE will be offline in type conversion training for summer 2022. Recurrent training of course will still be conducted which does tie up sim time and trainers.

This holds open the possibility that there may be available training resources June/July/August so you never know. Likely depends on numbers from Bid 2022-01 if it runs in January. Also may be affected by anticipated 2022 attrition to AC (this was NOT factored in to Bid 2021-01).

[link821]

Given that the March 14th 2020 class doesn’t go to training till March or April its probably safe to say hiring will be soon after that?

The current plan is that ALL Jazz pilots will be qualified and flying for summer 2022. Also planned that NONE will be offline in type conversion training for summer 2022. Recurrent training of course will still be conducted which does tie up sim time and trainers.

This holds open the possibility that there may be available training resources June/July/August so you never know. Likely depends on numbers from Bid 2022-01 if it runs in January. Also may be affected by anticipated 2022 attrition to AC (this was NOT factored in to Bid 2021-01).

That makes sense!

[YC87DRVR]

Given the excess vacancies on the AC bid released today, and the fact the most of our new hires have to come from Jazz I imagine OTS hiring at Jazz will start pretty soon.

The training pipeline for both carriers is full. There is an outside chance that hiring could start by June. Would depend on sim availability (Jazz does not use offshore sim resources) and instructor availability (summer - good luck!)

Because they may currently not use outside training resources (I have no idea if they do), doesn’t mean they won’t in the future if required. They have used outside sims (FSI)for both initial and recurrent training in the past.

[rudder]

Because they may currently not use outside training resources (I have no idea if they do), doesn’t mean they won’t in the future if required. They have used outside sims (FSI)for both initial and recurrent training in the past.

Offshore = outside Canada. And Jazz uses only their own instructors (exception was initial type training B757 at DL/ATL).

Jazz has rarely used any simulator outside of the country for the Express fleet types. I believe SEA was the only facility.

Jazz will use FSI YYZ Q400’s if necessary. However, Jazz already has priority access to 2 Q400 simulators (YYZ/YVR) for a fleet of 39 aircraft which is more than enough capacity.

2 CRJ simulators (YYZ) for a fleet of 50 aircraft which is basically at the limit.

1 EMB simulator (YYZ) for a fleet of 25 aircraft which is basically also at the limit and exclusive to AC only.

Jazz could find itself looking in USA For CRJ or EMB sim capacity. That would involve paperwork for pilots not already listed in the US system for permission to enter for the purpose of commercial flight training.

I am not aware of any plan to do so but you never know. AC does not seem to have any hesitation sending pilots offshore for training.

https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=78038

[RegionalPilot]

Given that the March 14th 2020 class doesn’t go to training till March or April its probably safe to say hiring will be soon after that?

The current plan is that ALL Jazz pilots will be qualified and flying for summer 2022. Also planned that NONE will be offline in type conversion training for summer 2022. Recurrent training of course will still be conducted which does tie up sim time and trainers.

This holds open the possibility that there may be available training resources June/July/August so you never know. Likely depends on numbers from Bid 2022-01 if it runs in January. Also may be affected by anticipated 2022 attrition to AC (this was NOT factored in to Bid 2021-01).

I do have a feeling (based on no facts) that HR will bring back those 2 cancelled 2020 ground schools classes at one point between spring and summer. By the time they start contacting people, and get them back into the system (maybe doing another sim eval, interview?), summer will be around the corner.

[rudder]

I do have a feeling (based on no facts) that HR will bring back those 2 cancelled 2020 ground schools classes at one point between spring and summer. By the time they start contacting people, and get them back into the system (maybe doing another sim eval, interview?), summer will be around the corner.

The pilots with rescinded job offers (that’s what it was - they never achieved employee status with Jazz) will likely repeat medical assessment and drug screening. Unlikely to repeat interview or simulator technical evaluation, although you never know if it turns out they have been inactive flying. They will also likely be the first offered courses whenever that happens in 2022.

As for the ‘pool’, my guess is Jazz will start from scratch. Two years is a long time. Therefore keeping resume updated (are you actively flying? Have you upgraded? Are you flying a Part 705 aircraft?) or submitting a new applicant file for a more qualified candidate will matter when the time comes to start the pool process again. If Big Red is going to start hiring again it means a return to meaningful attrition for Jazz. And while it has become the norm to hire a component from the college programs, Jazz also needs pilots that are upgradeable within 2 years. That means arriving with an ATPL and some meaningful flying experience.

[Kosiw]

I do have a feeling (based on no facts) that HR will bring back those 2 cancelled 2020 ground schools classes at one point between spring and summer. By the time they start contacting people, and get them back into the system (maybe doing another sim eval, interview?), summer will be around the corner.

The pilots with rescinded job offers (that’s what it was - they never achieved employee status with Jazz) will likely repeat medical assessment and drug screening. Unlikely to repeat interview or simulator technical evaluation, although you never know if it turns out they have been inactive flying. They will also likely be the first offered courses whenever that happens in 2022.

As for the ‘pool’, my guess is Jazz will start from scratch. Two years is a long time. Therefore keeping resume updated (are you actively flying? Have you upgraded? Are you flying a Part 705 aircraft?) or submitting a new applicant file for a more qualified candidate will matter when the time comes to start the pool process again. If Big Red is going to start hiring again it means a return to meaningful attrition for Jazz. And while it has become the norm to hire a component from the college programs, Jazz also needs pilots that are upgradeable within 2 years. That means arriving with an ATPL and some meaningful flying experience.

Hi Rudder,

For those who may want to remain at Jazz (once the hiring at Jazz and movement to AC resumes), what is your reasoning/theory that it will take 2 yrs to a left seat at Jazz ?

BTW, regarding Jazz HR (and take this with a grain of salt) the info I was hearing as of this past summer was that they "hoped" to be in touch with those with cancelled course dates by early in the new year of 22, it was also anticipated for this group, a "partial" hiring process would be required. (Interview/Drug Test/Updated Criminal Background Check) no mention of sim evals...maybe this info has changed since then...

[rudder]

Hi Rudder,

For those who may want to remain at Jazz (once the hiring at Jazz and movement to AC resumes), what is your reasoning/theory that it will take 2 yrs to a left seat at Jazz ?

Pre-COVID, there were left seat awards at Jazz at or below 2 years of service (I think that some awards may have been as low as 1 year). And while that will not be the case in 2022, as hiring ramps up at AC commencing in late 2022/early 2023 it is possible if not likely that from 2023-2025 Jazz will see the possibility of left seat going to some pilots (those that have ATPL and bid for it and pass the upgrade training) at the 2 year range. And I mean 2 years of active service, not 3 months of service and 18 months Inactive. So a 2020 hire date might be looking at 2024 junior system upgrade. 2022 hire date might be in the same range.

It will all depend on rate of flow to AC. Not sure if the days of 300+ per year flow will be back anytime soon. But you never know.

[Outlaw58]

Hi Rudder,

For those who may want to remain at Jazz (once the hiring at Jazz and movement to AC resumes), what is your reasoning/theory that it will take 2 yrs to a left seat at Jazz ?

Pre-COVID, there were left seat awards at Jazz at or below 2 years of service (I think that some awards may have been as low as 1 year). And while that will not be the case in 2022, as hiring ramps up at AC commencing in late 2022/early 2023 it is possible if not likely that from 2023-2025 Jazz will see the possibility of left seat going to some pilots (those that have ATPL and bid for it and pass the upgrade training) at the 2 year range. And I mean 2 years of active service, not 3 months of service and 18 months Inactive. So a 2020 hire date might be looking at 2024 junior system upgrade. 2022 hire date might be in the same range.

It will all depend on rate of flow to AC. Not sure if the days of 300+ per year flow will be back anytime soon. But you never know.

In the initial 2019-1 bid, there was a CA seat that was awarded to a pilot that was still undergoing CIT. He eventually lost his seat after the bid review period. In the 2020-1 bid, there were some CA seats that were unfilled but the pandemic hit before we had to deal with "first" in Jazz history. So yes we have seen CA awards well below the 1 year mark.

All that to say that in this post COVID period, the move to the left seat might take a bit longer for the pilots just returning to active status. But for those that are actually on the sidelines waiting for a NH class, I'd say make sure you have that ATPL in hand before CIT or you will get bypassed by those who do faster than you might think. I know it sucks at the moment but brighter days are no longer over the the horizon...they are in line of sight!

58 (the optimistic)

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

Some of us who got upgraded don't have effective and training dates till fall 2022. What are the odds of said training to be advanced in early 2022? Some have effective dates in October of 2022 but training this month (Nov 2021)....What's the plan with that?? How does it make any sense to be effective in late 2022 with training NOW. I for example have people junior to be with same effective date as me but doing their upgrade training now. Does that mean they will fly left seat after or remain right seat till effective date?

[rudder]

Some of us who got upgraded don't have effective and training dates till fall 2022. What are the odds of said training to be advanced in early 2022? Some have effective dates in October of 2022 but training this month (Nov 2021)....What's the plan with that?? How does it make any sense to be effective in late 2022 with training NOW. I for example have people junior to be with same effective date as me but doing their upgrade training now. Does that mean they will fly left seat after or remain right seat till effective date?

All explained in company and ALPA bulletins.

LOU57 modified training sequence, not effective dates. There will be bypass pay for pilots who’s training is delayed where junior pilots are upgraded out of seniority.

[RegionalPilot]

I know for a fact that a few people on the april canceled ground school just accepted upgrades at their 703 current employer (and therefore getting a fresh bond).

What would be the likelihood of those guys/gals to get « rehired » within their original class, and then getting a LOA since they are now bonded for a year? Would the company be nice enough to accommodate those people?

[link821]

I’d imagine probably not but by next may to oct it could be 7 to 10 months out so the buy out should be reasonable and worth while. That’s my logic at least.

[RegionalPilot]

Things will happen faster then people anticipate. Too many vacancies, and flying is ramping up fast. I heard loads are decent across the board at AC.

[Caterpillar]

Seeing the Encore post made me very excited and anxious once again to the potential of joining Jazz in a near future. What is the latest news on the potential hiring in 2022?

[RoAF-Mig21]

Seeing the Encore post made me very excited and anxious once again to the potential of joining Jazz in a near future. What is the latest news on the potential hiring in 2022?

I believe the answer lies with the overall state of the industry and retirements. The quicker things ramp up, the more flying we'll do both at mainline and Jazz. Once Air Canada starts hiring again, a lot of Jazz pilots will make that transition. That creates openings at Jazz and they'll start hiring again.

For now, everyone is focused on getting back to normal: ramping up flying, calling back pilots that were on lay-off, retiring aircraft and getting everyone trained and assigned on their aircraft / base.

I certainly could not guess, but things are looking up. I got back from Europe (2nd time in two months) this Sunday and my AC flight was packed. That's good news as far as I'm concerned.

[fish4life]

Another difference is the mainline carrier for each, Westjet is going to have all pilots back for May 1 and AC will still be a while until that happens.

[the-minister31]

Last Jazz pilots will start training somewhere between july and october, depending on how things are ramping up.

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

What do you mean? Can they advance training? I thought the sims were running full steam!

[the-minister31]

What do you mean? Can they advance training? I thought the sims were running full steam!

They could, yes. Or so says someone in the management (off the record of course).

From what I heard the biggest bottleneck is instructor availabilities, not sim time. I guess it depends on the aircraft type too.

[Outlaw58]

Last Jazz pilots will start training somewhere between july and october, depending on how things are ramping up.

Not 100% accurate.

Last Jazz pilots will start training on their awarded position between july and october. If you factor in pilots being trained temporarily on their previous equipment, we could have nearly 100% trained much earlier than that.

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