Aviation salaries and the industry severely flawed

squawk 7600 · Post by **squawk 7600** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:17 pm

Has anyone seen the new WestJet commercials...."because we are WestJet owners too"? Kinda gives you a warm fuzzy feeling doesn't it. Well I bet the travelling public would feel real warm and fuzzy if they only knew how much those highly skilled, highly trained pilots were actually being paid. I bet that would make a great commercial wouldn't it?

"....because we are WestJet owners too, because they pay is in stock (that is virtually worthless) because they can't afford to pay us in cash...."

I just don't understand this industry and why operators refuse to pay their employees a liveable wage. I made more 14 years ago working as a student in a factory....ironically, run by a union that goes by the name...CAW! Hmmm, doesn't the CAW have something to do with Air Canada....hmmm.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:36 pm

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/105/11/

I cant believe how much the F/O make I drive a piston twin and earn way more than that. But im not an Owner

metal overcast · Post by **metal overcast** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:52 pm

Supply and demand...............
Welcome to Canada

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:56 pm

hmmm.. doesnt the caw have something do do with all canada express too. what a union!

nite_owl · Post by **nite_owl** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:16 pm

CAW at Morningstar. Guys do ok there. Decent working conditions too. I wouldn't blame the union for ACE's issues. They're just trying to represent the guys while the company squirms to avoid unionizing. Bottom line ....if the company was a decent place to work, the union wouldn't have got a foot in the door in the first place.

squawk 7600 · Post by **squawk 7600** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:34 am

In my opinion, unions are no longer needed in this day and age. All they are is a tool for lazy, non-motivated employees to use to get the absolute best working conditions possible (and when I say best working conditions, I mean to work as little as possible).

The union in itself is just another employer that we work for that cares nothing about our well-being. They are best at driving up wages to increase their profitablilty, but over time, actually destroy our jobs along the way. Atleast the company works to stay in business; whereas the union works to fliter as much cash out of us as possible, then moves with us to our next jobs (because the company went out of business), to again steal more money from us. If you think about it...it's the perfect business plan!

Now can someone tell me why an Auto Workers Union represents airline employees???? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of!!! What is wrong with people!?

I did not intend for this post to become a rant against unions...but damn they drive me insane!

squawk 7600 · Post by **squawk 7600** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:47 am

So back to my original post: if only employers would pay adequate wages and provide suitable working conditions, unions would not be needed, companies would stay in business for the long haul, and everyone would be happy....except for Buzz.

Keep in mind, i'm talking about all companies and businesses aside from aviation as well.

talkinghead · Post by **talkinghead** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:35 am

squawk 7600 wrote:, companies would stay in business for the long haul, and everyone would be happy....except for Buzz.

.

I think that is the problem AND it works both ways.
By the way don't be fooled, WJ does have a pilot union its just not called union. Its called PACT (PROACTIVE COMMUNICATION TEAM)
From what I have read and been told it works pretty good. I think the key is communication. If you communicate with your employees then they most likely will put up with a-lot of things one of which would be lower pay.
mtc.

floatman · Post by **floatman** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:39 am

Squawk7600 wrote:In my opinion, unions are no longer needed in this day and age

Squawk7600 wrote: if only employers would pay adequate wages and provide suitable working conditions, unions would not be needed

Squawk7600 wrote: I made more 14 years ago working as a student in a factory....ironically, run by a union

And the topic of this post was....???

I guess if you are looking to make a decent living you have a couple of options...

1. Hope that the "employers" have a change of heart and decide to bump everybody 30% accross the board.

2. Get together with like-minded people and do something about your situation.

3. Get on the internet and whine about how much money you're NOT making and how unions are corrupt.

4. Get into business for yourself and run a non-union company and see how many cards YOU get at christmas.

I'd love to see a comparison of a 10 year AC flight attendant's salary next to a 10 year non-unionized twin turbine driver's.

Anybody ?

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:23 am

Too many pilot butts chasing too few seats. Plus, too many pilots willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead.

Operators aren't the problem. We are our own worst enemy. Mostly what a union does is keep us in line.