Regarding FSS

[chrisATC]

Hi guys,

I just had a couple questions regarding the FSS stream.

I was offered an assessment in the FSS stream and am wondering what to be prepared for, financially and mentally.

1) Since I will be relocating, does Nav pay for relocation during training or is that all on my expense?
2) On the website it says training for FSS pays about 30k, yet the training month duration is from 9-11 months so is that divided upon those months or is it annual.
3) After training, what is a realistic salary to expect, and how is the OT for FSS compared to ATC.
4) How different is the FSS assessment from the ATC assessment


Thanks, any help will be appreciated!

[kashep]

Current FSS here, assuming we're talking about AAS and not FIC (different courses for each).

1) NAV pays nothing to get you to basic training, but they pay all expenses (flights, moving company, etc) once you are sent to your first posting.

2) I think that number would be based on an annual salary. During basic training, pay worked out to about $2300 per month, went up a bit during OJT (on job training). Basic was around 6 months long.

3) Base salary is ~65k (plus evening/night and weekend premiums) more if you're at a busier site and potentially quite a bit more if you go to an isolated post. OT depends on whether your site is fully staffed but in general I don't think it's as common a thing as for ATC.

4) That I don't know. They've changed a lot about the application process in the past while, the assessment used to be the same for both.

Any other questions feel free to shoot me a message.

[Nekton]

Resurrecting an old thread here but maybe someone will chime in...

Kashep, or another FSS, could you elaborate on the FIC/AAS differences? I've read the basic descriptions on the Nav Canada website but am interested to hear more detail if you have the time.

Thanks.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Double post

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Kashep, or another FSS, could you elaborate on the FIC/AAS differences? I've read the basic descriptions on the Nav Canada website but am interested to hear more detail if you have the time.

Former ATC trainee here.

Think of AAS as ATC "lite." You're working in a tower at small-medium sized airport (Sudbury, Timmins, etc). Unlike a tower CONTROLLER however, you don't actually issue instructions to the aircraft. You relay certain clearances, but you're not "directing" the aircraft around the sky as a tower controller would, and you don't issue takeoff or landing clearances. You do however control the movement of vehicles on the airport maneuvering areas (maintenance vehicles, snow plows, etc.). You'll have RADAR (most likely) and be able to visually see the aircraft you're talking to outside the tower windows. These positions are normally up north and far away from the big population centres as well.

At an FIC, you're responsible for a large geographic area (Flight Information Centre). In this role, you accept and process flight plans, publish NOTAMS (Notices to Airmen), take weather readings and issue weather forecasts and provide weather briefings to pilots within your region. Of the two FSS roles, this one could be thought of as more clerical in nature, and you most likely won't even see the aircraft you're talking to. These positions are normally located closer to large urban centres.

I know there's a lot more to it than just that, but I think that's a basic run-down of the different roles.

[kashep]

Resurrecting an old thread here but maybe someone will chime in...

Kashep, or another FSS, could you elaborate on the FIC/AAS differences? I've read the basic descriptions on the Nav Canada website but am interested to hear more detail if you have the time.

Thanks.

Previous commenter is pretty accurate.

AAS is more similar to ATC, you work in a tower at a small airport that is determined to not be busy enough for an actual tower. You don't tell pilots what to do, but you help them arrive and depart safely and help them avoid traffic conflicts. We also do weather reporting. You don't necessarily have radar. It's not necessarily in the north, but it is in smaller towns.

FIC I'm not as fully aware of, but my understanding is it's more similar to a call centre. You give weather briefings (pilot will call you with their route and you talk them through the weather), deal with flight planning, help with search and rescue/comm searches, additional ATC support in some areas. FICs are located in Edmonton, Kamloops, London, or Quebec (Whitehorse also provides some FIC services). You do talk on the radio a bit but definitely won't have visual contact with aircraft.

AAS and FIC are different jobs and these days it's a different basic course for each. It is possible to switch between the two after some period of time.

[Nekton]

Thanks very much.

I have my first interview for FSS this week and am trying to get a better idea of the scope of the different roles so I can be prepared for the "What do you know about Nav Canada and/or FSS" question.

[kashep]

Thanks very much.

I have my first interview for FSS this week and am trying to get a better idea of the scope of the different roles so I can be prepared for the "What do you know about Nav Canada and/or FSS" question.

Good luck! That will definitely be a question they will ask. Good to also know a bit about what nav does outside of ATC, read up a bit on space-based ADS-B and aireon (just a basic awareness/knowledge is enough). Otherwise the interview is pretty standard, tell us about a time when... type questions and they will ask if you're willing to relocate.

[Nekton]

Thanks again, I will certainly read up on that, the NC blog has several short articles on it as well as some other interesting stuff including their attempt to be an industry leader in the move away from magnetic north as a navigational reference and equipment requirement. I have a fair bit of experience navigating on water and am very comfortable using either or both for planning and active nav purposes. On a boat with only a compass, or with very limited electronic nav aids, mag-n is certainly the easiest and most reliable way to keep on track and also make sure everyone who may be standing watch is using the same reference, and there is definitely something satisfying about following a compass course and ending up where you intended to after taking into account all the variables that might affect your passage. However, with modern electronics and redundant backups it is honestly much easier to just stick with true as it removes a potential for error when referencing paper charts, or between electronic systems that may do the correction differently for various reasons (i.e. radar vs a chartplotter vs a nav app). When I read that NC is pushing this I was surprised and pleased to see that my own experience and reasons for adopting this practice were similar.

Yet another question if you don't mind... what are your work shift schedules and lengths like? I realize they may be different from place to place so I'm not looking for a black and white answer, just an idea of your experience. My last few years have been 4 on/4 off 12hr shifts, 2 days 2 nights, which is both brutal and great, but sure messes with your system sometimes.

As for relocating, I am certainly willing but there are places I would not want to be posted, and I would much prefer staying where I am as there is FSS here. I think the best answer I've read on this site so far is to word it something like 'relocation is not a dealbreaker, but these are my preferences'. Also, cost of living and availability of both rental and home purchase has changed drastically in the past 2 years due to covid and relocating will be far more difficult and expensive now than it would have been when I applied back in 2019. I plan to mention this and hope they may take it into consideration.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

As for relocating, I am certainly willing but there are places I would not want to be posted, and I would much prefer staying where I am as there is FSS here. I think the best answer I've read on this site so far is to word it something like 'relocation is not a dealbreaker, but these are my preferences'. Also, cost of living and availability of both rental and home purchase has changed drastically in the past 2 years due to covid and relocating will be far more difficult and expensive now than it would have been when I applied back in 2019. I plan to mention this and hope they may take it into consideration.

They do take your requests into consideration. My initial posting was to YYZ tower which I wasn't thrilled about based on the success rate, but I accepted the challenge. I ended up not being successful there, however they did reach out a month or so after I was cease-trained (C-T'd... you'll get to know that term) and asked if I'd be interested in another tower location. I gave them my preferred location and they ended up posting me there. I know a few FSS people who got their preferred choices as well, and others not so lucky.

It all depends on staffing levels at the place you want to be, any anticipated retirements there or other already-licensed FSS personnel bidding to move to that location, etc etc etc. It's not as simple as knowing they're short one position, so it would make sense for you to fill it. There are probably locations that are more short-staffed than the one you want, and the needs of the company can outweigh your personal preference.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Here's the current FSS Collective Agreement. This is freely available on the Government of Canada Labour Relations website.

https://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agree ... 16511a.pdf

[kashep]

Yet another question if you don't mind... what are your work shift schedules and lengths like? I realize they may be different from place to place so I'm not looking for a black and white answer, just an idea of your experience. My last few years have been 4 on/4 off 12hr shifts, 2 days 2 nights, which is both brutal and great, but sure messes with your system sometimes.

As for relocating, I am certainly willing but there are places I would not want to be posted, and I would much prefer staying where I am as there is FSS here. I think the best answer I've read on this site so far is to word it something like 'relocation is not a dealbreaker, but these are my preferences'. Also, cost of living and availability of both rental and home purchase has changed drastically in the past 2 years due to covid and relocating will be far more difficult and expensive now than it would have been when I applied back in 2019. I plan to mention this and hope they may take it into consideration.

Work schedules are the farthest thing from standardized unfortunately. Some sites aren't even 24 hours and every site is staffed to different levels. My site has done 4 on 4 off 12 hour shifts and also 9.5 hour shifts with varying week/weekend lengths. We are in the middle of trying to modify our schedule again. I'm not too sure what other sites' schedules look like.

As for the relocation, they may take your preferences into consideration and certainly it's possible to end up where you want, but at the start, they are just accepting you into a training position. They don't necessarily know where they need people or where they will need people by the end of your course so they would never give you any sort of guarantee going into training. Some sites are mainly staffed by seniority so it would be really rare for new trainees to get sent there. As long as you don't say a hard no to the relocation thing I would say you probably have a good shot getting in.

[Nekton]

Lots to read up on and review. I will keep all of this in mind as I prepare over the next day or so, and be sure to indicate that I am flexible about relocation if asked. Thanks again!