$10 fare

[snowcone]

Flair has been advertising some crazy fares, including $10 yyc-yeg, taxes in.

The AIF in YYC is $35, then add on security fees etc.

How can they sell fares at $10. By the time the agent walks to the gate they have lost money.

[RRJetPilot]

Investors in Florida are paying the difference.

[imjustlurking]

Flair has been advertising some crazy fares, including $10 yyc-yeg, taxes in.

The AIF in YYC is $35, then add on security fees etc.

How can they sell fares at $10. By the time the agent walks to the gate they have lost money.

This is YKF-YYC (1434nm as the crow flies) on Feb 8.
It only includes the price of the seat and a personal item. If you want to take a carry-on bag, you will pay $30-50 ($60 at the gate). To check your first bag is $50-70 ($80 at the counter).

If you cancel, you lose $50.



Keep in mind, they are not selling all of the seats at $12... but they are putting asses in seats and hoping that the ass in that seat shells out $50 for the bag and another $20 for food and drink.

[tbaylx]

Flair has been advertising some crazy fares, including $10 yyc-yeg, taxes in.

The AIF in YYC is $35, then add on security fees etc.

How can they sell fares at $10. By the time the agent walks to the gate they have lost money.

We do not operate between YYC and YEG currently.

[Donald]

If the competition really wanted to hurt Flair, they'd buy up all those $12 fares, and then no-show the flights.

[altiplano]

It's a cash flow business...
Need to keep the advance booking cash rolling in to pay today's bills, especially for a low yield ULCC.

I recall Jetsgo $1 fares.

[imjustlurking]

If the competition really wanted to hurt Flair, they'd buy up all those $12 fares, and then no-show the flights.

If we ignore the whole fraud argument on that one, airlines won't operate a flight if the passengers have not checked in, and to see a flight where your passengers have not checked in a few hours before departure would throw a bunch of red flags.

[airway]

If the competition really wanted to hurt Flair, they'd buy up all those $12 fares, and then no-show the flights.

If we ignore the whole fraud argument on that one, airlines won't operate a flight if the passengers have not checked in, and to see a flight where your passengers have not checked in a few hours before departure would throw a bunch of red flags.

Sure they will. Usually they need the plane at the next destination to operate the next flight.




.

[flying4dollars]

Flair has been advertising some crazy fares, including $10 yyc-yeg, taxes in.

The AIF in YYC is $35, then add on security fees etc.

How can they sell fares at $10. By the time the agent walks to the gate they have lost money.

You do understand that not every of the 189 seats sell at base fares right? You do know that, I surely hope.

Also Flair does not fly between YYC and YEG.

Next question....

[tbaylx]

If the competition really wanted to hurt Flair, they'd buy up all those $12 fares, and then no-show the flights.

If the competition wants to buy our tickets we're happy to sell them. Not sure that's a strategy but try pitching it to them and see, they're also the ones that think a discount airline within an airline model is an effective counter to a ULCC so they might just buy it

[Latitude]

Flair has been advertising some crazy fares, including $10 yyc-yeg, taxes in.

The AIF in YYC is $35, then add on security fees etc.

How can they sell fares at $10. By the time the agent walks to the gate they have lost money.

Last time it happened in Canada the airline went bankrupt.

[tbaylx]

Flair has been advertising some crazy fares, including $10 yyc-yeg, taxes in.

The AIF in YYC is $35, then add on security fees etc.

How can they sell fares at $10. By the time the agent walks to the gate they have lost money.

Last time it happened in Canada the airline went bankrupt.

Except that it hasn't happened in Canada before. Jetsgo was a far cry from a ULCC model. Just because an airline sells fares at $1-50 doesn't mean they are the same. By that logic, every ULCC should have been bankrupt years ago.

Oh right, Canada is different and it won't work here..until it does. Let's revisit in a few years after Lynx/Flair/XXX has secured the industry ULCC norm of 25-30% of the market.

[co-joe]

Flair has been advertising some crazy fares, including $10 yyc-yeg, taxes in.

The AIF in YYC is $35, then add on security fees etc.

How can they sell fares at $10. By the time the agent walks to the gate they have lost money.

Last time it happened in Canada the airline went bankrupt.

You mean when Swoop sold tens of thousands of $10 fares out of Abbotsford including the $36-$39 AIF's with the sole purpose of pricing Flair out of the market, 100% bankrolled by Westjet? Then lost the law suit over it, and the government refused to enforce its own law against predatory pricing?

Nope, unfortunately Swoop didn't go out of business, they're still here driving Westjet pilot wages down one base at a time...

[palebird]

Except that it hasn't happened in Canada before. Jetsgo was a far cry from a ULCC model. Just because an airline sells fares at $1-50 doesn't mean they are the same. By that logic, every ULCC should have been bankrupt years ago.

Oh right, Canada is different and it won't work here..until it does. Let's revisit in a few years after Lynx/Flair/XXX has secured the industry ULCC norm of 25-30% of the market.

Jetsgo was a ULCC. People seem to think there is some kind of magic with ULCC and normal financial rules do not apply. What a joke. Never successfully happen in Canada and everyone knows the reasons why.

[tbaylx]

Except that it hasn't happened in Canada before. Jetsgo was a far cry from a ULCC model. Just because an airline sells fares at $1-50 doesn't mean they are the same. By that logic, every ULCC should have been bankrupt years ago.

Oh right, Canada is different and it won't work here..until it does. Let's revisit in a few years after Lynx/Flair/XXX has secured the industry ULCC norm of 25-30% of the market.

Jetsgo was a ULCC. People seem to think there is some kind of magic with ULCC and normal financial rules do not apply. What a joke. Never successfully happen in Canada and everyone knows the reasons why.

I disagree that they were a ULCC by the modern sense of the business model but let's say that they were. Then it was a poorly executed iteration of the model. Under capitalized, old fuel inefficient and maintenance-heavy aircraft and operated only from expensive airports without discounted user fees.

A ULCC is a pretty simple formula but Jetsgo certainly didn't follow it. No magic involved. The current COVID environment has provided additional opportunities that didn't exist when Jetsgo was around either. IF you think it can't be done in Canada then you really do think its' different here and time will tell if you're correct. I think you aren't and that ULCC's are here to stay in the Canadian market and will significantly benefit the traveling public here.

[Hangry]

Except that it hasn't happened in Canada before. Jetsgo was a far cry from a ULCC model. Just because an airline sells fares at $1-50 doesn't mean they are the same. By that logic, every ULCC should have been bankrupt years ago.

Oh right, Canada is different and it won't work here..until it does. Let's revisit in a few years after Lynx/Flair/XXX has secured the industry ULCC norm of 25-30% of the market.

Jetsgo was a ULCC. People seem to think there is some kind of magic with ULCC and normal financial rules do not apply. What a joke. Never successfully happen in Canada and everyone knows the reasons why.

I disagree that they were a ULCC by the modern sense of the business model but let's say that they were. Then it was a poorly executed iteration of the model. Under capitalized, old fuel inefficient and maintenance-heavy aircraft and operated only from expensive airports without discounted user fees.

A ULCC is a pretty simple formula but Jetsgo certainly didn't follow it. No magic involved. The current COVID environment has provided additional opportunities that didn't exist when Jetsgo was around either. IF you think it can't be done in Canada then you really do think its' different here and time will tell if you're correct. I think you aren't and that ULCC's are here to stay in the Canadian market and will significantly benefit the traveling public here.

What happens when the cash isn’t quite sweet enough and Flair creates Flair light to complete with the new ULCCs and they start scabbing out the work for half the price. You’ll support that right? Money must be made!

[tbaylx]

Except that it hasn't happened in Canada before. Jetsgo was a far cry from a ULCC model. Just because an airline sells fares at $1-50 doesn't mean they are the same. By that logic, every ULCC should have been bankrupt years ago.

Oh right, Canada is different and it won't work here..until it does. Let's revisit in a few years after Lynx/Flair/XXX has secured the industry ULCC norm of 25-30% of the market.

Jetsgo was a ULCC. People seem to think there is some kind of magic with ULCC and normal financial rules do not apply. What a joke. Never successfully happen in Canada and everyone knows the reasons why.

I disagree that they were a ULCC by the modern sense of the business model but let's say that they were. Then it was a poorly executed iteration of the model. Under capitalized, old fuel inefficient and maintenance-heavy aircraft and operated only from expensive airports without discounted user fees.

A ULCC is a pretty simple formula but Jetsgo certainly didn't follow it. No magic involved. The current COVID environment has provided additional opportunities that didn't exist when Jetsgo was around either. IF you think it can't be done in Canada then you really do think its' different here and time will tell if you're correct. I think you aren't and that ULCC's are here to stay in the Canadian market and will significantly benefit the traveling public here.

What happens when the cash isn’t quite sweet enough and Flair creates Flair light to complete with the new ULCCs and they start scabbing out the work for half the price. You’ll support that right? Money must be made!

Hi there Hangry, you bet. If we become bloated and inefficient and uncompetitive I'd fully expect someone to come in and take business from us. Luckily a ULCC sticking to its business model pays pilots competitively, isn't likely to order expensive widebodies, lounges, loyalty programs and so there would be no need to create an airline within an airline.

Fighting innovation and change in a capitalistic society is a losing battle much like the taxi unions vs uber.

[Soyer]

I love the myopic vision of pilots AIF and airport fees are not what they seem. Most airports incentivize flights in various ways so they may take in $25 in an AIF but they return that with other hand based on the incentive structure. So is Flair eating the AIF - doubt it! But then again pilots know the financial end better than the finance guys!

[boeingboy]

Except that it hasn't happened in Canada before. Jetsgo was a far cry from a ULCC model. Just because an airline sells fares at $1-50 doesn't mean they are the same. By that logic, every ULCC should have been bankrupt years ago.

Oh right, Canada is different and it won't work here..until it does. Let's revisit in a few years after Lynx/Flair/XXX has secured the industry ULCC norm of 25-30% of the market.

Jetsgo was a ULCC. People seem to think there is some kind of magic with ULCC and normal financial rules do not apply. What a joke. Never successfully happen in Canada and everyone knows the reasons why.

I disagree that they were a ULCC by the modern sense of the business model but let's say that they were. Then it was a poorly executed iteration of the model. Under capitalized, old fuel inefficient and maintenance-heavy aircraft and operated only from expensive airports without discounted user fees.

A ULCC is a pretty simple formula but Jetsgo certainly didn't follow it. No magic involved. The current COVID environment has provided additional opportunities that didn't exist when Jetsgo was around either. IF you think it can't be done in Canada then you really do think its' different here and time will tell if you're correct. I think you aren't and that ULCC's are here to stay in the Canadian market and will significantly benefit the traveling public here.

I disagree. A true ULCC is simple - and it simply wont work here because Canada is truly different than just about everywhere else.

I'm starting to see (and by numerous admissions) that Flair is not a true ULCC. No frills, LCC yes, but not ULCC. A ULCC like Ryanair or Easyjet has every seat at - shall we call it - an absurd price ($39 , $49) not 5 seats with the rest costing close to the same as everyone else. I'd love to know just how many seats Flair sells at the absurd price on each flight. We will probably never know but it's not many from what I guess.

[Realitychex]

I love the myopic vision of pilots AIF and airport fees are not what they seem. Most airports incentivize flights in various ways so they may take in $25 in an AIF but they return that with other hand based on the incentive structure. So is Flair eating the AIF - doubt it! But then again pilots know the financial end better than the finance guys!

If you actually believe that “some” airports are rebating the AIF to Flair via various schemes whilst charging all the other carriers operating there the full nut, please give me a call.

I have a warehouse full of Sony Betamax machines that I’ll sell you for $50 each. You can easily sell them for $400 a pop on EBay.

[evilgravy]

I love the myopic vision of pilots AIF and airport fees are not what they seem. Most airports incentivize flights in various ways so they may take in $25 in an AIF but they return that with other hand based on the incentive structure. So is Flair eating the AIF - doubt it! But then again pilots know the financial end better than the finance guys!

If you actually believe that “some” airports are rebating the AIF to Flair via various schemes whilst charging all the other carriers operating there the full nut, please give me a call.

I have a warehouse full of Sony Betamax machines that I’ll sell you for $50 each. You can easily sell them for $400 a pop on EBay.

Chex, while I generally agree with your posts on ULCCs, this one goes to Soyer - I've seen it first hand. While I can't comment on specifics, the agreements made between Flair and (some) airports in regards to incentives were very favorable.

[altiplano]

I love the myopic vision of pilots AIF and airport fees are not what they seem. Most airports incentivize flights in various ways so they may take in $25 in an AIF but they return that with other hand based on the incentive structure. So is Flair eating the AIF - doubt it! But then again pilots know the financial end better than the finance guys!

If you actually believe that “some” airports are rebating the AIF to Flair via various schemes whilst charging all the other carriers operating there the full nut, please give me a call.

I have a warehouse full of Sony Betamax machines that I’ll sell you for $50 each. You can easily sell them for $400 a pop on EBay.

I'll take those betamaxes. PM for more details.

[tbaylx]

Flights are free now in Feb. Feel free to have the competition buy them all up too.

https://flights.flyflair.com/en-ca/sale?dc=FREEFAREFEB

[330heavy]

Flights are free now in Feb. Feel free to have the competition buy them all up too.

https://flights.flyflair.com/en-ca/sale?dc=FREEFAREFEB

Nice publicity to get people flying and to try the Flair brand, but hell, Jetsgo charged $1 for last min seats, and that didn't age well. Good luck.

[imjustlurking]

Flights are free now in Feb. Feel free to have the competition buy them all up too.

https://flights.flyflair.com/en-ca/sale?dc=FREEFAREFEB

Nice publicity to get people flying and to try the Flair brand, but hell, Jetsgo charged $1 for last min seats, and that didn't age well. Good luck.

My first thought too. I didn't think anyone would try to beat Jetsgo's last minute cash flow attempt.

If the $10 fares didn't work, the "free" fares come off as a desperate last grasp.