ALPA 1934-1940's Membership Requirements

[imjustlurking]

John S,
Nobody is going to take the time to read this. It happened in the 1930s. Alpa has evolved since then as have most organizations. Why don’t you spend your time trying to talk some sense into the current racist organizations. Proud boys, Q’Anon and various skinhead organizations that currently exist. Alpa is not harming anyone. But these douchebag mentioned above certainly are. It would appear you have abundant time in your hands. Put it to good use

Hi there hithere!

I'm not posting this so that others will read it. I want to write a book on aviation and racism and I need a place to organize my research. This seemed as good a place as any and I have the benefit that people will give me feedback FOR FREE!!!

Also, I do try to correct people's mistaken perception of things. For instance, I continually have to correct people that there is no epidemic of killings by police of unarmed Blacks in the USA. That is a BLM perpetrated lie that is completely and unequivocally contradicted by the facts.

"I am an anti-racist who believes in racist conspiracy theories."

You're good at trolling. I know that you're doing it and somehow I am unable to stop myself from responding.

[ALPApolicy]

"I am an anti-racist who believes in racist conspiracy theories."

You're good at trolling. I know that you're doing it and somehow I am unable to stop myself from responding.

Well, to the nearest thousand, do you know how many unarmed Blacks are killed by cops in the USA each year?

[hamstandard]

Not sure why anybody wants ALPA anyways. I heard that WJ pilots are very disappointed and AC pilots want nothing to do with them.

[hithere]

Trolls,trolls, everywhere. While you might get the impression from the vocal minority here that WJ/Encore/AC are unimpressed with Alpa, that is not the case. Believe it or not, what you read on avcanada is not representative of the truth. Crazy right! I think you will see WJ/Encore stay long term with Alpa; whether ACPA eventually goes ALPA is anyone’s guess

[rudder]

Not sure why anybody wants ALPA anyways. I heard that WJ pilots are very disappointed and AC pilots want nothing to do with them.

ALPA has 61000 members in the US and Canada. Membership is rising with Pilot groups joining that are not satisfied with their non-ALPA bargaining agent.

ALPA doesn’t need AC or any other current member group that might be investigating alternative representation.

Take a vote. 50%+1. And then move on.

[ALPApolicy]

NOTE: I think this excerpt explains how President Behncke was able to reassure ALPA members that even without an explicit rule preventing Blacks from becoming members of ALPA, local councils would still be able to deny membership to Blacks if they so desired.

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************************

PRESIDENT BEHNCKE: You have heard the reading of the summary of the question and the recommendation of the Committee.

I might explain first that this proposed change in the By-Laws is recommended by Headquarters. The membership of our organization comes from all parts of the United States, and it is not the purpose of this proposal to start any argument about the race question. However, I have been around Washington a good deal and I have been repeatedly embarrassed by this section of the By-Laws. It states "any male of the white race."

As a matter of fact, as the Chairman has pointed out, it is a sort of red flag. There is a number of organizations in Washington, and they make a business of picking these things up and throwing them at you, and that old hue and cry is always going on about not discriminating against people because of their color, creed or race. They say to you, "Well, your By-Laws say this."

We could reach the same objective by an amendment that this committee has proposed which reads as follows: "Any male of lawful age and of good moral character who serves as a pilot or copilot ... shall be eligible for membership..."

Those stipulations as established provide that a local council must approve a member and headquarters must approve a member before he can become a member of the Air Line Pilots Association. Any safeguards that anybody wants are established without going to the question and putting it there in balck and white so that people can pick it up and embarrass you with it.

[ALPApolicy]

MR. FRANCIS: Mr. Chairman, do you have any information as to how that is handled ont he railroads? Perhaps we could get some information and copy their example.

PRESIDENT BEHNCKE: You mean how they handle this particular question? On the railroads they have what they term colored lodges. They don't take the colored people right into the organizations. They have established colored lodges for colored firemen and colored porters, and so on. They don't mix the races. Of course, the qualifications for membership, I suppose, are set by the various lodges.

MM. PIERMAN: I don't think we have any intention of doing anything like that here.

MR. FRANCIS: I never knew of a colored fireman or a colored engineer though I think we might follow some example they have.

PRESIDENT BEHNCKE: You say you don't even touch on the question. That is the question here. You say, "Any male of lawful age and of good moral character who serves as a pilot or copilot ... shall be eligible for membership in accordance with the stipulations ... " Then you get a whole flock of stipulations. First a membership application is received at headquarters, and then it goes back to the local council, and it is a pretty long procedure before that is actually approved. So it seems to me that the question is well under control without coming right out and saying it.



I don't believe we would ever have any people in the organization that are other than the white race.


Probably there will be at some time or other something done similar to what the railroads have done, but I don't think that is of immediate concern. The whole question here is that these organizations are very active, and they pick that up and just make a big fuss about it.

ALPA 1942 Behncke Stipulations.jpeg (147.76 KiB) Viewed 3120 times

ALPA 1942 Behncke Coloreds.jpeg (150.21 KiB) Viewed 3120 times

[cdnavater]

MR. FRANCIS: Mr. Chairman, do you have any information as to how that is handled ont he railroads? Perhaps we could get some information and copy their example.

PRESIDENT BEHNCKE: You mean how they handle this particular question? On the railroads they have what they term colored lodges. They don't take the colored people right into the organizations. They have established colored lodges for colored firemen and colored porters, and so on. They don't mix the races. Of course, the qualifications for membership, I suppose, are set by the various lodges.

MM. PIERMAN: I don't think we have any intention of doing anything like that here.

MR. FRANCIS: I never knew of a colored fireman or a colored engineer though I think we might follow some example they have.

PRESIDENT BEHNCKE: You say you don't even touch on the question. That is the question here. You say, "Any male of lawful age and of good moral character who serves as a pilot or copilot ... shall be eligible for membership in accordance with the stipulations ... " Then you get a whole flock of stipulations. First a membership application is received at headquarters, and then it goes back to the local council, and it is a pretty long procedure before that is actually approved. So it seems to me that the question is well under control without coming right out and saying it.



I don't believe we would ever have any people in the organization that are other than the white race.


Probably there will be at some time or other something done similar to what the railroads have done, but I don't think that is of immediate concern. The whole question here is that these organizations are very active, and they pick that up and just make a big fuss about it.



ALPA 1942 Behncke Stipulations.jpegALPA 1942 Behncke Coloreds.jpeg

I’m not sure what your true intent is, given your past crusade against ALPA. It seems like you’re trying to embarrass a group of people who very likely are long dead and given that in the 1920’s the KKK had approximately 4 million members in the US, this policy is not at all surprising.
There in all likelihood are other, even plenty of other groups at that time with similar policies and your, paraphrasing,“I’m just organizing my research is pure BS. Nobody in their right mind would use a forum such as this to organize their book research. You are trying to illicit a response, to what end, who knows!
If you want to write a book about this history of ALPA and include the dark parts, fair enough, it appears that it hasn’t been done, who knows, I might even read it.

[hithere]

You hit the nail on the head; he is not in his right mind

[imjustlurking]

"I am an anti-racist who believes in racist conspiracy theories."

You're good at trolling. I know that you're doing it and somehow I am unable to stop myself from responding.

Well, to the nearest thousand, do you know how many unarmed Blacks are killed by cops in the USA each year?

If I'm round up to the nearest thousand, why not round up to the nearest googol?

If we do round to the nearest googol, we're talking 1x10^100 unarmed people who are black killed each year by police.

[ALPApolicy]

You hit the nail on the head; he is not in his right mind

So, because I spend $40 and dig up some historical information that is factually correct, and I post it without commentary (for the most part) then I therefore suffer from some type of mental illness?

If that is your response to these revelations then I would think you are the dictionary definition of white fragility. (I just assumed your skin tone.)

[ALPApolicy]

If I'm round up to the nearest thousand, why not round up to the nearest googol?

Actually, I never said round "up". The answer, if we rounded to the nearest thousand would be zero as the actual number is 20 or so unarmed Blacks killed by police each year in the USA.

[ALPApolicy]

I’m not sure what your true intent is, given your past crusade against ALPA.

In all fairness, my opposition to ALPA in the past was perfectly reasonable given that it was a fight for certification. Some were against certification and a slim majority were for certification. Life moves on.

My true intent is to have ALPA mirror the land acknowledgements that various civic groups and public institutions make with regard to indigenous/First Nations historical land occupation. Prior to every LEC/MEC/BOD Committee/Convention I believe it would be appropriate to have a statement read to the members present that acknowledges the harm done by the founders of ALPA in the form of its racist and sexist exclusionary language. It is very clear from the statements above from founding President Dave Behncke that he directed local councils to get around the lack of explicit language prohibiting non-white members by using the approval process to deny membership to Blacks (and other racial groups, but especially Blacks) should the local councils choose to do so. This goes a long way to explaining why the first Black pilot was not hired at a US airline until the 1960's and he at a non-ALPA airline.

Sample Statement:

"The Air Line Pilots Association wishes to acknowledge the harm done to non-white people and women who desired to become air line pilots as a result of both the explicit policy and the unwritten rule depriving ALPA membership to those groups in the period after ALPA's founding and persisting for some time. The Office of the President is dedicated to ensuring Equity and Diversity in ALPA represented flight decks and fostering an interest in aviation in traditionally underrepresented groups."

It will take a motion at a future Convention to have a statement similar to the above made policy, but I believe it should be done. Perhaps others agree. Perhaps not.

[pelmet]

Trolls,trolls, everywhere. While you might get the impression from the vocal minority here that WJ/Encore/AC are unimpressed with Alpa, that is not the case. Believe it or not, what you read on avcanada is not representative of the truth. Crazy right! I think you will see WJ/Encore stay long term with Alpa; whether ACPA eventually goes ALPA is anyone’s guess

Thats not what I have heard. I have heard that relations have been poisoned and Swoop was the result.

[imjustlurking]

Trolls,trolls, everywhere. While you might get the impression from the vocal minority here that WJ/Encore/AC are unimpressed with Alpa, that is not the case. Believe it or not, what you read on avcanada is not representative of the truth. Crazy right! I think you will see WJ/Encore stay long term with Alpa; whether ACPA eventually goes ALPA is anyone’s guess

Thats not what I have heard. I have heard that relations have been poisoned and Swoop was the result.

Even with Swoop, from what I've heard on the line, the vast majority of pilots are happy with ALPA. There are people who are upset because of layoffs and bump downs, but it's really not a great time to judge the union as it was impossible to prevent layoffs and concessions. What they did do was ensure that everyone who was laid off was on CEWS until August 2021. Air Canada pilots did not get that.

[pelmet]

Trolls,trolls, everywhere. While you might get the impression from the vocal minority here that WJ/Encore/AC are unimpressed with Alpa, that is not the case. Believe it or not, what you read on avcanada is not representative of the truth. Crazy right! I think you will see WJ/Encore stay long term with Alpa; whether ACPA eventually goes ALPA is anyone’s guess

Thats not what I have heard. I have heard that relations have been poisoned and Swoop was the result.

Even with Swoop, from what I've heard on the line, the vast majority of pilots are happy with ALPA. There are people who are upset because of layoffs and bump downs, but it's really not a great time to judge the union as it was impossible to prevent layoffs and concessions. What they did do was ensure that everyone who was laid off was on CEWS until August 2021. Air Canada pilots did not get that.

The AC pilots definitely seem to be upset with their union.

[imjustlurking]

Thats not what I have heard. I have heard that relations have been poisoned and Swoop was the result.

Even with Swoop, from what I've heard on the line, the vast majority of pilots are happy with ALPA. There are people who are upset because of layoffs and bump downs, but it's really not a great time to judge the union as it was impossible to prevent layoffs and concessions. What they did do was ensure that everyone who was laid off was on CEWS until August 2021. Air Canada pilots did not get that.

The AC pilots definitely seem to be upset with their union.

Imagine how much stronger ALPA would be in Canada if Air Canada pilots ditched ACPA and joined ALPA.

[pelmet]

Even with Swoop, from what I've heard on the line, the vast majority of pilots are happy with ALPA. There are people who are upset because of layoffs and bump downs, but it's really not a great time to judge the union as it was impossible to prevent layoffs and concessions. What they did do was ensure that everyone who was laid off was on CEWS until August 2021. Air Canada pilots did not get that.

The AC pilots definitely seem to be upset with their union.

Imagine how much stronger ALPA would be in Canada if Air Canada pilots ditched ACPA and joined ALPA.

That is true. Greater membership numbers equals more power. I am not sure if the old CALPA was a branch of ALPA or totally separate.