Truckers convoy

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RoAF-Mig21
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by RoAF-Mig21 »

Regardless of your political opinion, religious views and values you have in life, as a Canadian you should really value FREEDOM and what it really means. This word is being thrown around like a dodgeball at recess and both pro and anti "tucker convoy" groups have thrown around:

"Freedom is not taking the vaccine"
"Freedom does not mean you can honk your horn all night"
"Freedom is for me to eat my donut while I drink my x-large double double in my big truck and listening to Truck Yeah, by Tim McGraw" (by the way, awesome song. I will include a YouTube link at the bottom of this post).
"Freedom is to have my non-fat mocha macchiato with a side of unicorn sprinkles while I listen to Indigo Girls"

Okay... Maybe. Part of it. Sure.

For me it "FREEDOM" has a different meaning; a more fundamental one. Please indulge me and listen a bit to my background story:

I've lived in Canada for almost three decades. I came here from the old country where I grew up under a brutal communist dictatorship and have personally witness a very bloody and terrifying revolution, where my dad, my uncles were out fighting the communists in brutal street to street urban combat. He was 33 years old then. Meanwhile, I stayed home with my mom, aunt and the rest of the family while gunshots, fighter aircraft and other sh*t you can't even imagine swarmed around us engulfed in violence, confusion, disinformation and mass hysteria. The only thing protecting us? A chain on the front door of the communist block flat and two neighbors, one armed with an AK-47 and one with an axe. This lasted for almost 3 weeks after which, the communist dictator was overthrown, captured, tried in a kangaroo court and executed by firing squad on Dec 25 1989. "As a present, we all got to watch it on TV". Fantastic! Just what an eight year old should see on Christmas Day. (*note the sarcasm)

It was brutal!

What led to that? Well, I'm no history buff, but the fact that my nation allied itself with Nazi Germany, partook in the invasion of the USSR, got the crap kicked out of us and eventually lost a good portion of our country may have started this sht*storm. After WW2 Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt carved up the world and my tiny little country fell under the iron curtain. What followed was 44+ years of communism. "The best kind".

The worst part was in the 80s, after our Dear Leader decided to visit North Korea and become good buddies with Kim Il Sung (the grandfather of the current leader). He was so impressed with the cult personality of his DPRK's counterpart that he decided he wanted the same thing. In the 80s he also became very obsessed with paying off any international debt. As a result, we were on rations for everything from bread to cars. If you were a party member you had SOME privileges, but for the most part, we were locked up, beaten, starved and controlled in every aspect.

The most amazing tool the Iron block countries had was DISINFORMATION. There was absolute control of the media, combined with the police, secret police (Kind of like the Stasi in DDR - Deutsche Demokratische Republik) as well as other methods of collecting information and surveillance. Phone taping was done in every house as well as neighbors, co-workers, friends, etc. were all a potential source of information for the communist government.

That didn't happen overnight. It took years and years, but anything you ever said could have been used against you. Something as innocent as saying "I like jeans" could get you in trouble.

State police: "Why do you like jeans? Are you a Western Spy? Do you support the Americans? Do you have contacts abroad? Have you ever listend to Radio Free Europe? Do you like donuts?"

Okay. Enough. I'm starting to ramble. I could literally sit here and type 100 pages of my experience in communism, but how does this pertain to Canada? Surely I'm not comparing it to the former Eastern block countries. No, but there is a trend I'm seeing here and it's scaring the hell out of me.

Canada is a country of rules. Any nation to properly function must have them. We must also pay tax. It's a necessity of modern life. (Within reason). What has happened in the last 2 years is nothing short of astonishing for me. No, it wasn't the fact we had to social distance, wear a mask or even have a vaccine available. It was some of the rules and mandates put into place, all in the "interest of safety", to "protect Canadians".

Here are the things that come to mind:
1. RESTRICTING DOMESTIC TRAVEL. This is the most absurd, tyrannical and communist thing a government can do. How the f*ck do you, as a free Canadian, accept your government(s), federal and provincial, to restrict travel within your own country? HOW? That is some "Fahrenheit 451" next level sh*t (Ray Bradbury novel). People could not see their dying parents, newborn grandkids, etc etc etc.

What makes it okay to travel from Toronto to Barrie, but not from Ottawa to Gatineau or from Banff to Revelstoke? Is it for my safety? The safety of others? Why can't I follow the same precautions that I follow in my own province?

2. Limit to gatherings in private homes. Since when is the government allowed to tell me who I can and can not have over my house, so long as the law is not being broken (but you see, that can be interpreted in many ways...) "You're spreading COVID so therefore you ARE breaking the law".

3. Travel restrictions on leaving / arriving in your own country - Free, unimpeded movement. Having to quarantine 14 days in your house or 3 days at a government approved hotel for $2000 is not acceptable. Even back in the old country we had insane travel restrictions. You couldn't even keep your passport at home. It had to be kept at the police station. Sure, you could leave, but you can only travel to Eastern Block nations, because it was "SAFE from capitalist influences and their damaging and immoral societies". You can freely travel to other nations if you were a top athlete, a mariner or aviator, but you could only do it if you left one of your kids behind. "We're not banning you. You're free to travel to West Germany, just leave your kids behind... and oh yes, if you defect your whole family may end up in prison working the chain gangs"

Anyway, I'm into my 3rd beer now and I'm losing focus.

The worst part I've seen in the last few weeks is the complete disinformation, construction of specific narratives and a general assault on every day hard working Canadians. Truckers have been called "racists", "homophobes", "terrorists" and every other name you can think of, because they are not marching to the beat of this administration. This to me is a lot like the old country...

I'm not anti vax, I'm not a religious nutcase, I support and advocate for minorities and generally I just want to have a normal life, where I can afford to feed my family, travel the world and be a contributing member of society. That's what FREEDOM means to me. I don't want to give away my liberties in the name of "SAFETY". That word has been used a bit too much lately to justify some pretty draconian measures.

Once you lose freedom, it's pretty hard to get it back... I know it because I lived through it. What's happening in Ottawa now is a very Canadian style protest. While it's annoying and uncomfortable for the local residents (and I feel for them), it's better than what I've witnessed 32 years ago.

See what I mean... photos from Dec. 1989. I was 8 years old.

Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Compare that to the peaceful protest we have in Canada.

P.S. Enjoy Tim McGraw - Truck Yeah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf7GfUORHtw
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Last edited by RoAF-Mig21 on Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Liftdump »

The fact that you typed that post with 3-4 beers onboard isa gold medal performance.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by pelmet »

Bingo Fuel wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:27 pm Imagine this: Pierre Poilievre is Prime Minister.

A leftist protest, sponsored heavily by foreign money is trying to remove him from power. Even a prominent leftist billionaire is throwing his support behind them.

I bet many of you would suddenly be big supporters of democratically elected governments and the rule of law.

Many of you would have serious concerns over foreign interference, and its effect on our society.
Exactly, the vast majority of people are complete hypocrites. The same ones that are supporting this blockade thought the last one was terrible and vice versa.

No credibility. Arrest them all.....from both blockades. And the next one, which will happen if we always look the other way.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Impact »

RoAF-Mig21, your story is indeed insightful. Thank you for sharing that moving personal account.

My own family history involves much the same story. Communist regime, utter despair, and absolutely no sense of personal or societal freedom and autonomy. Brutal.

A bit philosophical, however so fitting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VfJ0BJvt7Y
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Just another canuck »

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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by rookiepilot »

Impact wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:50 pm RoAF-Mig21, your story is indeed insightful. Thank you for sharing that moving personal account.

My own family history involves much the same story. Communist regime, utter despair, and absolutely no sense of personal or societal freedom and autonomy. Brutal.

A bit philosophical, however so fitting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VfJ0BJvt7Y
Totally agree. Powerful.

Amazing how many weak minded on this forum are so eager to go there. Must be the hair they voted for.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Impact »

pelmet wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:32 pm
Bingo Fuel wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:27 pm Imagine this: Pierre Poilievre is Prime Minister.

A leftist protest, sponsored heavily by foreign money is trying to remove him from power. Even a prominent leftist billionaire is throwing his support behind them.

I bet many of you would suddenly be big supporters of democratically elected governments and the rule of law.

Many of you would have serious concerns over foreign interference, and its effect on our society.
Exactly, the vast majority of people are complete hypocrites. The same ones that are supporting this blockade though the last one was terrible and vice versa.

No credibility. Arrest them all.....from both blockades. And the next one, which will happen if we always look the other way.
:lol: Why am I not surprised you'd come out with an inflammatory statement like that?

The pro-mandate folks seem to lack the ability to distinguish the difference between "law and order" and "authoritarian". It's easy to see that the pro-mandators are authoritarians. Dictate to others, and use coersion and punishment to enforce your edicts.....all in the name of "safety"......even at the cost of Charter Rights.

Ever notice how Conservatives are more prone to lean towards the Freedom spectrum, compared to the Libs/NDP leaning towards the authoritarian side? Why is that?

BTW, if I were a Freedom Convoy organizer, I'd counter the State of Emergency order with free skate sharpening, and a petting zoo.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by rookiepilot »

Bouncy Castles? Wall to Wall “Hate” coverage.

56 Churches burned or vandalized?

Nothing from the PM. All good. CBC never called it “hate”.

There was this though:

As Mr. Trudeau dithered, others celebrated. Harsha Walia—executive director of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, Canada’s oldest civil-liberties group—tweeted a link to a story about the church arsons and added, “Burn it all down.“

Didn’t they celebrate or do nothing when shops and books were burned in Nazi Germany?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vandalism- ... 1627584689
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by pelmet »

Impact wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:11 pm BTW, if I were a Freedom Convoy organizer, I'd counter the State of Emergency order with free skate sharpening, and a petting zoo.
Or a vaccine clinic. Then they could all go home.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Impact »

pelmet wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:36 pm
Impact wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:11 pm BTW, if I were a Freedom Convoy organizer, I'd counter the State of Emergency order with free skate sharpening, and a petting zoo.
Or a vaccine clinic. ........
That's actually a great idea! Offer vaccines for those who want it. For those who don't, no problem......no punishments, vilification, or being called a terrorist.

See how that works? That freedom of choice thingy? :smt008
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by CpnCrunch »

RoAF-Mig21 wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:07 pm 1. RESTRICTING DOMESTIC TRAVEL. This is the most absurd, tyrannical and communist thing a government can do. How the f*ck do you, as a free Canadian, accept your government(s), federal and provincial, to restrict travel within your own country? HOW? That is some "Fahrenheit 451" next level sh*t (Ray Bradbury novel). People could not see their dying parents, newborn grandkids, etc etc etc.

What makes it okay to travel from Toronto to Barrie, but not from Ottawa to Gatineau or from Banff to Revelstoke? Is it for my safety? The safety of others? Why can't I follow the same precautions that I follow in my own province?

2. Limit to gatherings in private homes. Since when is the government allowed to tell me who I can and can not have over my house, so long as the law is not being broken (but you see, that can be interpreted in many ways...) "You're spreading COVID so therefore you ARE breaking the law".
These were all provincial, not federal. Complain to your MLA.
3. Travel restrictions on leaving / arriving in your own country - Free, unimpeded movement. Having to quarantine 14 days in your house or 3 days at a government approved hotel for $2000 is not acceptable. Even back in the old country we had insane travel restrictions. You couldn't even keep your passport at home. It had to be kept at the police station. Sure, you could leave, but you can only travel to Eastern Block nations, because it was "SAFE from capitalist influences and their damaging and immoral societies". You can freely travel to other nations if you were a top athlete, a mariner or aviator, but you could only do it if you left one of your kids behind. "We're not banning you. You're free to travel to West Germany, just leave your kids behind... and oh yes, if you defect your whole family may end up in prison working the chain gangs"
This was what people voted for in Sep 2021. If you (Canadians) didn't want travel restrictions, why vote in the party that promised them, and why complain about them now when they are in the process of being removed? Next time try voting in a party that will make rational evidence-based decisions.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Vaticinator »

Bingo Fuel wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:03 pm
FOD wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:27 pm Why do we need to imagine this? It’s been essentially going on for almost 5 years. Also, not really understanding why this freedom protest is considered fully right wing? If so, people seeking freedom are right wingers, left wingers are therefore opposed to freedom.

Actually, makes perfect sense.
Show me someone who supports the Freedom Convoy holding a sign or flag supporting the Liberals, NDP, Greens or Biden.
To make this about partisan politics is to allow yourself to be duped by the distraction dog whistle of Trudeau. No matter if you're left, right or centre, and regardless of how you feel about the protest, as Canadians we should all be embarrassed and very concerned about his rhetoric and tactics in dealing with this protest. The implications are negative for all of us. It could be you next, as a peaceful, law abiding citizen, who is demonized and vilified by your leader based on your "unacceptable views." The end does not justify the means here. This is the government opposing the citizens and attempting to disguise and frame it as left versus right. In reality, it is an assault on free people. This should be alarming to us all.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by 7ECA »

RoAF-Mig21 wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:07 pm 1. RESTRICTING DOMESTIC TRAVEL. This is the most absurd, tyrannical and communist thing a government can do... ...People could not see their dying parents, newborn grandkids...

2. Limit to gatherings in private homes. Since when is the government allowed to tell me...

3. Travel restrictions on leaving / arriving in your own country...
To the best of my knowledge the only governments that actually had something resembling a ban on domestic travel, was the so-called Atlantic Bubble. Even so, people could travel into and out of the "bubble", as long as they complied with local regulations around quarantine/testing. There were no, I repeat NO, bans on travel inside of Canada. There were most certainly restrictions on travel, and certainly were advisories to limit non-essential travel - but these were ADVISORIES, not bans. Although maybe I'm conflating the BC situation as being indicative of what was occurring across the country...

The government is allowed to, and most certainly can place limits on gatherings, events, etc., in both public and private venues. These are powers that all governments have under the various Emergency Act(s) both Provincially/Territorially as well as Federally. Most jurisdictions enacted states of emergencies which allowed them to impose restrictions to try and contain a virulent viral threat to public health (emergencies under the Emergency Act can be defined in a variety of ways, public health emergencies often being one of the types).

Again, any Federal Government (and most, if not all globally had similar policies/advisories in place) can restrict/limit entry and exit from their sovereign territory. The Canadian Federal Government, though, did not ban travel - which would have required them to enact the Federal Emergencies Act, as that would constitute a serious restriction of civil liberties, instead there were numerous travel advisories that asked Canadians not to travel unless absolutely necessary or for essential reasons only. You absolutely could, and many people did, leave Canada for a variety of reasons as well as enter back into Canada - following the Federally mandated arrival/entry and quarantine procedure(s).

If you, and the supposed "silent majority", were so outraged by even the most minimal of restrictions on your "personal freedoms" then why didn't you challenge the restriction(s) in court as is your ability to do so?

I'm sick and tired of listening to people spout off about their "freedoms", when people don't bother to actually read what the Charter very CLEARLY states:
Rights and freedoms in Canada:

1 The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

Also:
Exceptions

Section 1 of the Charter, known as the limitations clause, allows governments to justify certain infringements of Charter rights. If a court finds that a Charter right has been infringed, it conducts an analysis under section 1 by applying the Oakes test, a form of proportionality review. Infringements are upheld if the government's objective in infringing the right is "pressing and substantial" in a "free and democratic society", and if the infringement can be "demonstrably justified".[2]
Also, see Section 33, the Notwithstanding Clause, for further reading.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by rookiepilot »

7ECA,

Anyone actually arrested and charged for bringing food to the protestors, as Ottawa police have explicitly promised to do, will certainly have cause to challenge it in court.

I hope they sue the city too.
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Re: Truckers convoy

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rookiepilot wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:16 pm Anyone actually arrested and charged for bringing food to the protestors, as Ottawa police have explicitly promised to do, will certainly have cause to challenge it in court.
Exactly, because there's no declaration of martial law, let alone the Federal Emergencies Act. Hence, no suspension of habeas corpus.

Feel free to challenge, sue, what have you, any piece of legislation you like - it's a free country and a democracy. Just be prepared to find an actual Constitutional Lawyer and not a bunch of blowhards on a forum; and open up the chequebook wide...
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Re: Truckers convoy

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7ECA wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:20 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:16 pm Anyone actually arrested and charged for bringing food to the protestors, as Ottawa police have explicitly promised to do, will certainly have cause to challenge it in court.
Exactly, because there's no declaration of martial law, let alone the Federal Emergencies Act. Hence, no suspension of habeas corpus.

Feel free to challenge, sue, what have you, any piece of legislation you like - it's a free country and a democracy. Just be prepared to find an actual Constitutional Lawyer and not a bunch of blowhards on a forum; and open up the chequebook wide...
Not martial law?

New tonight:

Mayor Jim Watson described the situation in the nation's capital as the "the most serious emergency our city (nation?) has ever faced."

Seriously?


On Sunday evening, dozens of heavily armed police officers descended on the baseball stadium parking lot in east Ottawa that's been serving as the staging for the protesters operating in the downtown core.

Protesters said police removed the fuel that was being stored on the site to supply trucks parked in in the city centre.

Snipers stood guard on the roof of the stadium and hotel, on either side of the parking lot, as police moved and protesters yelled, "shame, shame."

Man the mayor seems like he would love to be the guy in the “last Castle” movie….”marksmen, fire into the crowd”.

There hasn’t been one injury or death during this protest….and they are clamouring for the military.

It’s sickening.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by pelmet »

Looks like the Toronto protest is over now.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/video/tr ... d=msedgntp
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Re: Truckers convoy

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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by imjustlurking »

Just another canuck wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:28 pm They were absolutely restricting travel. They had OPP stationed on the Manitoba and Quebec borders and if you didn't have an Ontario address, you were not allowed in.

Now in Tiananmen Sq... Er.. I mean, Ottawa, the government has sanctioned the theft of goods from private citizens. After an attempted theft of millions of dollars. And slanderous propaganda by what can only be described as state run media. Why is this okay for so many people? I feel like you're all under some type of mass hypnosis.
Meanwhile flights in an out of Ottawa were unrestricted.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Vaticinator »

rookiepilot wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:35 pm Snipers stood guard on the roof of the stadium and hotel
If the presence of trucks and truckers are apparently now equivalent to "violence", I can't imagine what snipers would qualify as.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by rookiepilot »

Vaticinator wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:37 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:35 pm Snipers stood guard on the roof of the stadium and hotel
If the presence of trucks and truckers are apparently now equivalent to "violence", I can't imagine what snipers would qualify as.
And still no sign of Trudeau.

Strong leadership here.

And some fake news too.

https://thepostmillennial.com/chair-of- ... n-truckers
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Re: Truckers convoy

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Police seized their replenishment fuel…..

And the forecast is for cold weather.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Bingo Fuel »

Vaticinator wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:55 pm To make this about partisan politics is to allow yourself to be duped by the distraction dog whistle of Trudeau. No matter if you're left, right or centre, and regardless of how you feel about the protest, as Canadians we should all be embarrassed and very concerned about his rhetoric and tactics in dealing with this protest. The implications are negative for all of us. It could be you next, as a peaceful, law abiding citizen, who is demonized and vilified by your leader based on your "unacceptable views." The end does not justify the means here. This is the government opposing the citizens and attempting to disguise and frame it as left versus right. In reality, it is an assault on free people. This should be alarming to us all.
This is all apparently supprising to you. You all haven't been paying attention.

Look up what's been happening at Fairy Creek.

That is what is going to happen to the Convoy next.
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by photofly »

Vaticinator wrote:No matter if you're left, right or centre, and regardless of how you feel about the protest, as Canadians we should all be embarrassed and very concerned about his rhetoric and tactics in dealing with this protest.
I'm much embarrassed and very concerned by Trudeau's rhetoric, but I'm also embarrassed and concerned by the protests and the protesters. I supported the idea of the protest, and I was happy to see that Canadians were free to demonstrate to make their point. But eventually, that point is made, and it becomes a hostage situation and not a political demonstration. Now, it's time to go home, or be made to go home, using whatever laws and powers that will achieve that. I thought a Canadian value widely held was consideration for others. It's not much in evidence here.
Just another canuck wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 8:28 pm They were absolutely restricting travel. They had OPP stationed on the Manitoba and Quebec borders and if you didn't have an Ontario address, you were not allowed in.
Those are the powers your democratic government has had on the statute books since the 1990s. How can it be undemocratic or wrong to use the powers that the various provincial and federal parliaments voted to give the executives?
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Re: Truckers convoy

Post by Vaticinator »

Bingo Fuel wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:14 pm Look up what's been happening at Fairy Creek.
Trees are one thing. Rights and freedoms are a very different thing.
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