DEC Westjet Swoop

[Greasy Greaser]

Just so everyone can see, most current Swoop pilots (at least captains) are WestJet mainline pilots that took recall or bump down to Swoop and stayed because of lifestyle and 99% of WJ population do not see Swoop employees of any kind as scabs (that's not even the correct definition of scab person above me (FO?) used) in anyway shape or form, it's an executive/Onex ordeal we don't like about Swoop. The other 1%, well, as usual...vocal insecure people.

If you live in YEG/YHM, no brainer to go Swoop over any regional imo, YYZ...go AC lol. Do your two years there and come over to WJ if you want.

Sincerely, most of WestJet.

[imjustlurking]

If by better you mean painting 6 more teal tails pink then yes, better day by day. Congratulations to Swoop on getting 6 brand new Max-8's that would have been destined for mainline Westjet!

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airli ... da-network

Again, you're upset that your employer is expanding it's subsidiary. Guess what! When Swoop succeeds, WestJet Succeeds. You're up for a new contract this year, so tell your MEC that you want equal pay across WS and WO for the same aircraft type.

Maybe then you'll stop complaining about the company's long term goals.

Why should Westjet pilots fight for equal pay (higher for them)for scabs at another airline that robbed our flying???
If anything the only thing we should negotiate related to swoop is the end of its existence, plain and simple.

You sound like an entitled dick.

You're a part of the same bargaining unit. The argument that Swoop is taking WestJet flying is immature and incorrect. WestJet has been rebranding WestJet Airlines as a premium quality airline. Swoop is not catering to that market in any sense. Your comment that they are a different airline and don't deserve your respect makes me hope that you are close to 65 so that you can take your negative attitude and disrespect out of the door with you.

[cjet]

I would be very cautious if I was looking at a DEC spot at Swoop. Lots of uncertainty going forward as to how long you can hold onto that position. Lots of talk about parity with mainline and a rebid for those positions. As a DEC you would not be able to hold onto your left seat due to your seniority. First year FO at Swoop is $58.

CJet

[imjustlurking]

I would be very cautious if I was looking at a DEC spot at Swoop. Lots of uncertainty going forward as to how long you can hold onto that position. Lots of talk about parity with mainline and a rebid for those positions. As a DEC you would not be able to hold onto your left seat due to your seniority. First year FO at Swoop is $58.

CJet

FWIW, from the way I understand the bidding system, you cannot be bumped out of your position due to a position bid UNLESS you put a bid in for something else that you can hold OR it's a reduction bid.

[Canadaflyer46]

Again, you're upset that your employer is expanding it's subsidiary. Guess what! When Swoop succeeds, WestJet Succeeds. You're up for a new contract this year, so tell your MEC that you want equal pay across WS and WO for the same aircraft type.

Maybe then you'll stop complaining about the company's long term goals.

Why should Westjet pilots fight for equal pay (higher for them)for scabs at another airline that robbed our flying???
If anything the only thing we should negotiate related to swoop is the end of its existence, plain and simple.

You sound like an entitled dick.

You're a part of the same bargaining unit. The argument that Swoop is taking WestJet flying is immature and incorrect. WestJet has been rebranding WestJet Airlines as a premium quality airline. Swoop is not catering to that market in any sense. Your comment that they are a different airline and don't deserve your respect makes me hope that you are close to 65 so that you can take your negative attitude and disrespect out of the door with you.

Always nice to be called a dick and given some business lessons from a brand new Encore FO who's PPC stamp is barely dry. I bet captains just love to fly with you.

[sstaurus]

Swoop may serve a purpose, but the company is getting two birds stoned at once. Compete with the likes of Flair, Lynx, etc. while also driving a wedge in the employee group and use it as a union buster. More and more mainline routes are being taken over by swoop. The company can cry 'different market' all they want, but there's hardly a difference. They are some of the lowest paid 37 drivers in the world... doing the same work.

[cjet]

I would be very cautious if I was looking at a DEC spot at Swoop. Lots of uncertainty going forward as to how long you can hold onto that position. Lots of talk about parity with mainline and a rebid for those positions. As a DEC you would not be able to hold onto your left seat due to your seniority. First year FO at Swoop is $58.

CJet

FWIW, from the way I understand the bidding system, you cannot be bumped out of your position due to a position bid UNLESS you put a bid in for something else that you can hold OR it's a reduction bid.

That is correct but if Swoop wages increase to parity at WJ there’s going to be a complete re bid at Swoop. Many out of place positions. Hard to have 12 year FO’s WJ while there’s DEC at Swoop if we’re all on the same WACON.

CJet

[Greasy Greaser]

The re bid talk is literally, just all talk at the moment. From few vocal people again. Very hard to initialize a re bid in the first place and people are dreaming if company would want that. Same people expect Delta pay next contract LOL.

In a perfect world, sure go for it, doesn't affect me. But I'll bet if a re bid were to be on the table, we the pilots would be giving up ALOT on everything else. I and a lot of others are not willing to take a pay cut (includes not getting proper gains/inflation) for a rebid. Time will tell though, almost anything is on the table in the economic environment.

Better to just do that whole A scale, B scale idea at Swoop but just creates more division which some guys here love it seems.

[Liftdump]

Here is an idea,buy a Peterbilt,drive to Gerry’s office and start honking and bring along a bouncy castle.

[newlygrounded]

I would be very cautious if I was looking at a DEC spot at Swoop. Lots of uncertainty going forward as to how long you can hold onto that position. Lots of talk about parity with mainline and a rebid for those positions. As a DEC you would not be able to hold onto your left seat due to your seniority. First year FO at Swoop is $58.

CJet

58K is new grad money these days, nobody outside of flying I know is aware of how garbage the wages are. I wonder how long this will last?

[ALPApolicy]

Here is an idea,buy a Peterbilt,drive to Gerry’s office and start honking and bring along a bouncy castle.

K that's really funny.

[imjustlurking]

Why should Westjet pilots fight for equal pay (higher for them)for scabs at another airline that robbed our flying???
If anything the only thing we should negotiate related to swoop is the end of its existence, plain and simple.

You sound like an entitled dick.

You're a part of the same bargaining unit. The argument that Swoop is taking WestJet flying is immature and incorrect. WestJet has been rebranding WestJet Airlines as a premium quality airline. Swoop is not catering to that market in any sense. Your comment that they are a different airline and don't deserve your respect makes me hope that you are close to 65 so that you can take your negative attitude and disrespect out of the door with you.

Always nice to be called a dick and given some business lessons from a brand new Encore FO who's PPC stamp is barely dry. I bet captains just love to fly with you.

I called YC87DRVR a dick, not you. Great to know that you think it's appropriate to call your fellow pilots in the same bargaining unit scabs and infer to them being a lower class than you.

[CaptainHaddock]

IF the Swoop LOU is removed/contract parity there would definitely be a system wide rebid. But honestly anyone in Swoop currently should be wholeheartedly behind contact parity. The seats will shuffle a bit, but your earnings/lifestyle/retirement savings/benefits/time off all improve markedly-And we all move forward as one group.

[CaptainHaddock]

The 6 MAXs were originally destined for Norwegian. WestJet didn’t have anymore 800’s to give at this time so they are buying these ones. The shift to MAX’s makes sense as Flair and Lynx are operating them. These are not WestJet aircraft.

Where are you getting this information?, since Onex came to town getting fleet information is like pulling teeth.

[Dionysus]

Everyone blames wj for starting swoop but fails to talk about why it’s there and how it plays a role to protect your job. Do I buy that reasoning from the upper management? Yeah I do because you don’t have to look very far to see jetlines flair and lynx. They don’t pay wj or ac rates or benefits. Nobody believed they would be here but guess what….Swoop needs to fight them to protect your ass at all costs and part of that is to match penny for penny. Cost is king like those smarter than us say. Bet You don’t choose another gas or electricity company or cell phone company that is higher cost and gives you a 20% more monthly bill. Sad but true so if you want someone to blame try blaming Tim Morgan or flair or jetlines or porter and then whoever else is coming up in this ulcc area. Oh but it is Feb our I love to grieve month! So I guess we can grieve it what an embarrassing note from grievance chair. I barfed

[Greasy Greaser]

Everyone blames wj for starting swoop but fails to talk about why it’s there and how it plays a role to protect your job. Do I buy that reasoning from the upper management? Yeah I do because you don’t have to look very far to see jetlines flair and lynx. They don’t pay wj or ac rates or benefits. Nobody believed they would be here but guess what….Swoop needs to fight them to protect your ass at all costs and part of that is to match penny for penny. Cost is king like those smarter than us say. Bet You don’t choose another gas or electricity company or cell phone company that is higher cost and gives you a 20% more monthly bill. Sad but true so if you want someone to blame try blaming Tim Morgan or flair or jetlines or porter and then whoever else is coming up in this ulcc area. Oh but it is Feb our I love to grieve month! So I guess we can grieve it what an embarrassing note from grievance chair. I barfed

Bold of you to speak logically here.
Like you and many others have said, Cost is king. Period. WJ can not undercut so much to even remotely compete with Lynx prices (who just got their first airplane in YYC btw). So what's the alternative, Swoop. Only a matter of time before pink airplanes make its way to YYC.

How long did it take AC and Rogue to get to parity, or any other ALPA mainline and B scale. Probably three contracts from now we'll see it if we're lucky. Best we can do is just increase it slowly over time.

[Maritimer]

Swoop isn’t going anywhere. Personally I am not willing to give up an ounce of negots capital on improving Swoop. It was designed to be the bottom of the barrel laughing stock that it is. It is scoped out as it is, it can’t grow past 30 and cannot have wide bodies.

[imjustlurking]

Swoop isn’t going anywhere. Personally I am not willing to give up an ounce of negots capital on improving Swoop. It was designed to be the bottom of the barrel laughing stock that it is. It is scoped out as it is, it can’t grow past 30 and cannot have wide bodies.

That's some narrow minded thinking.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, you are a part of the same bargaining unit. "Your negotiating capital" is not just yours and is built on both WS pilots as well as WO pilots. Stop being self-centered for a moment and think about others. Then, once you're done being a human being, you can come to the realization that improving Swoop will allow you to improve WestJet. Pretending that your skeletons aren't in your closet doesn't make them go away.

[Hangry]

Swoop isn’t going anywhere. Personally I am not willing to give up an ounce of negots capital on improving Swoop. It was designed to be the bottom of the barrel laughing stock that it is. It is scoped out as it is, it can’t grow past 30 and cannot have wide bodies.

That's some narrow minded thinking.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, you are a part of the same bargaining unit. "Your negotiating capital" is not just yours and is built on both WS pilots as well as WO pilots. Stop being self-centered for a moment and think about others. Then, once you're done being a human being, you can come to the realization that improving Swoop will allow you to improve WestJet. Pretending that your skeletons aren't in your closet doesn't make them go away.

Ewwwww. That’s some serious Encore energy.

[Maritimer]

Swoop isn’t going anywhere. Personally I am not willing to give up an ounce of negots capital on improving Swoop. It was designed to be the bottom of the barrel laughing stock that it is. It is scoped out as it is, it can’t grow past 30 and cannot have wide bodies.

That's some narrow minded thinking.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, you are a part of the same bargaining unit. "Your negotiating capital" is not just yours and is built on both WS pilots as well as WO pilots. Stop being self-centered for a moment and think about others. Then, once you're done being a human being, you can come to the realization that improving Swoop will allow you to improve WestJet. Pretending that your skeletons aren't in your closet doesn't make them go away.

Ewwwww. That’s some serious Encore energy.

Right?

[Ex DC10 Driver]

I don’t think for a second that on our next contract WestJet and Swoop will be at parity. Our contract has so many holes and poorly written sections that we will need all our negotiating capital just to close those holes with nothing left over to bring Swoop under our contract. Unfortunately I have to agree with Maritimer on this one. Just flew with an ALPA Executive member who said the exact same thing.

[Canadaflyer46]

You sound like an entitled dick.

You're a part of the same bargaining unit. The argument that Swoop is taking WestJet flying is immature and incorrect. WestJet has been rebranding WestJet Airlines as a premium quality airline. Swoop is not catering to that market in any sense. Your comment that they are a different airline and don't deserve your respect makes me hope that you are close to 65 so that you can take your negative attitude and disrespect out of the door with you.

Always nice to be called a dick and given some business lessons from a brand new Encore FO who's PPC stamp is barely dry. I bet captains just love to fly with you.

I called YC87DRVR a dick, not you. Great to know that you think it's appropriate to call your fellow pilots in the same bargaining unit scabs and infer to them being a lower class than you.

Yes read my comment again, I am fully aware you weren't calling me a dick. I was calling you out on calling a senior WJ pilot a dick. Your arrogance and naivety apparently know no bounds. You do realize you'll never flow to mainline right? Or did they promise you rainbows and unicorns in your recall groundschool? The fact you don't see Swoop with its current working conditions as a threat to WJ pilot careers blows my mind. I can forgive stupidty, but constantly posting on a forum trying to lecture senior WJ pilots about how they've got it all wrong....well that's the kind of bewildered arrogance no one can look past. I'll say it again, you must be on every captain's book-off list.

[hithere]

Just an FYI, I don't think it's been confirmed yet who "i'mjustlurking" flies for or if he is even a pilot, so we may just be dealing with another troll

[Canadaflyer46]

Just an FYI, I don't think it's been confirmed yet who "i'mjustlurking" flies for or if he is even a pilot, so we may just be dealing with another troll

Pretty sure I remember him saying he was newly recalled to Encore. Maybe that was to add to the troll level though! Although I'm sure he'll now say "just because I'm the only pilot on the list who thinks Swoop is great it doesn't make me a troll....."

[Mac08]

Good thing there won’t be much flow for a while because if he is the new standard of Encore I’d hate being a Westjet pilot and flying with any of them.Encore seems like a bunch of highschool kids at a dead end job.