Canadian Immigration Policies

ice ice baby · Post by **ice ice baby** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:13 pm

The filling suit against Avcanada thread has been hijacked a bit towards immigration policies and crime. I thought it would be an interesting, possibly heated discussion and deserved it's own thread.

This might sound a bit politically incorrect but Canada should really examine it's immigration policies. In a few major canadian cities we have a high crime rate among certain immigration groups. Maybe we should tell them where they are ALLOWED to live for the first 5? years. If we have problems in a with a certain race, age group, etc. in one area maybe we shouldn't let any more immigrants from that region live in that area till we've sorted out the problems. Landed immigrants are not citizens and should NOT be treated as such. They are guests that we have given the opportunity to live and work here and should behave as such. If you are convicted of drug trafficking assault or anything else We should send them back to where they came from. These criminals are not contributing in a positive way to Canada. If they are convicted of a criminal offence they should be deported. They can serve their jail sentence in a country that they hold citizenship or reside under international agreement. The reason I believe they should serve it somewhere else is because WE (I) SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT and THEY'D THINK TWICE ABOUT DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL given the poor conditions in many foreign jails.

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:17 pm

Its a free country, you cant force people to live where you want them to..

I mean, apart from natives....

R2000/1830 · Post by **R2000/1830** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:24 pm

Unless you are First Nations you are an immigrant too, remember that. My family has been here for 10 generations but I have no more rights then a first generation Canadian. This country was made by immigrants and they are the best part of this country. I wish we let more people in, especially from the poorer nations. At least they have pride in this country and know its history, something that most of us do not.

ice ice baby · Post by **ice ice baby** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:38 pm

Its a free country, you cant force people to live where you want them to..

I mean, apart from natives....

But we can tell people what skills they need to be able to move to Canada? I don't see how saying we need immigrants in this municipality or city been is any different. Maybe just give them better marks or credits if they are willing to spend X years in a certain area. Like we do if people are educated.

This country was made by immigrants and they are the best part of this country

and the worst. Criminals who are not citizens should be deported. We already have enough criminals here already.

Scuba_Steve · Post by **Scuba_Steve** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:40 pm

I agree 100% with sending anyone convicted of a crime packing if they are a landed immigrant. But punushing the immigrant comunity as awhole for the action of what really is a minority, is a little to draconian

RFN · Post by **RFN** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:50 pm

I don't think it would be right to exclude anyone based only on their country of origin. To do so implies that everyone from that country is (or has a good potential to be) a criminal.
I live in Winnipeg where we have been having a problem with North African gangs for about the past two years. The people in these gangs, mostly teenaged immigrants, have experienced some pretty horrible things in their lives. This makes them pretty tough to deal with in terms of law enforcement.
I think that instead of targeting a racial group (or groups), we should make being a member of a criminal gang (regardless of freedom of association) a deportable offence. If you are a guest in Canada, then don't piss on the rug. If you do, then here's the door.

iwillflyajet · Post by **iwillflyajet** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:03 pm

hey all,

I am your latest landed immigrant to Canada. I know I wouldnt do anything to get chucked out of this beautiful country. I have been a Canuck for a whole three weeks now and I am loving it!!!

its one thing to say that all muslims have a jihad, so you cant trust a muslim. it is also another to say one minority group is to blame for all our problems.

its another example of the have nots and the haves. it is a visous cycle of events.

just my two cents worth......

ice ice baby · Post by **ice ice baby** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:06 pm

I'll use Winnipeg as an example. IF we have a problem with North African gangs, composed of the 12-30 age bracket the we give mroe "points" or whatever to a North Africans willing to live somewhere else. If more North African teenagers move to the 'peg, there is a good chance they will associate with these individuals and possibly become gang members. Some of these people would do great things if you PREVENTED them from becoming aquainted with these criminals. The key here been PREVENTION and not been "draconian" towards a whole community.

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:07 pm

I probably like that idea more than anyone else here, however it wont work in this country, unfortunately the people will have to learn the hard way, and there will be less and less tolerance. What your suggesting is what is going on in the middle east. You can live and work, but you will never get citizenship and you're treated differently from nationals.

ice ice baby · Post by **ice ice baby** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:30 pm

To get citizenship you have to live in Canada for a minimum of 3 years. I have no problem with landed immigrants becoming canadian citizens as R2000/1830 mentioned our relatives (or us) became citizens at one point in time or another. Some landed immigrants choose to never become citizens (maybe it would make visiting family far away more difficult.) Those first 3 years are a sort of trial period before they can even apply, and it is during this time we should sort out the undesirables from those who genuinely want to contribute to Canada and to call it home.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:04 pm

We're all imigrants except First Nations??? Wake the F up! Aboriginals immagrated from Asia across the bloody ice bridge! Infact, unless you don't subscribe to science, every human emmigrated from Africa. If you believe in creationism then guess what, we all came from 2 really randy folk. So everyone came from somewhere, drop the 'origins' thing and deal with the present.

If you move to a new country (or even visit for that matter), abide by the law of the land, otherwise, get the hell out! We've been too nice about this for too long. "Oh no, I can't go back to India, I'll be called names." Well, you shouldn't have been street racing and killed that woman when you lost control of your car, sorry. The street racing case in Vancouver a little while back is a good start, but we still allow criminal (some violent ones) to stay on compationate grounds.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:24 pm

Unless you are First Nations you are an immigrant too, remember that.

Jesus, they didn't spring up from the ground, they're not natives(they to crossed over) and if you watch discovery, they possibly killed the original natives(or those who were here even before them).

*reads further down*... Yeah, what mellow_pilot said.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:34 pm

Maybe we should tell them where they are ALLOWED to live for the first 5? years. If we have problems in a with a certain race, age group, etc. in one area maybe we shouldn't let any more immigrants from that region live in that area till we've sorted out the problems

That's actually a brilliant plan, but "racist" of you to say...

But you're VERY right, we have towns in the north who lose people to cities and we need to get infrastructure going in these small towns, but I think the stats show how 80% of the immigrants come to GTA.

They do need to be "integrated" properly and shoving them into some small sh9t hole town would work miracles....

AND if you think Canada is bad, Lol, go google some info on Brimingham in England, the losers are like "we don't want a US type system" well, they already do, in one area 95% of the 10 schools had East-Asian folks and another area had 95% white, they created the department to intigrate the immigrants in the 70's and have spent BILLIONs on the project, yet, the einsteins haven't figured out that they're not being forced into these ghetto's(unlike in the US where you're born into them) they move there because they don't want to intigrate, it's easier to stick with your own kind and not bother to learn english when all your neighbours and shops all speak language X, and you've carved out a bamgladesh, china towns in the city....

Since some get financial assistance when they move over, well, guess what, you want the money for schooling, housing, etc, tough sh9t you only get it if you move to one of the other towns.

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:37 pm

ice ice

Your original idea would require a notwithstanding to get around the Charter which says govt can't force anyone to live where they want. However, I think the govt should rebate the immigration fees of people who live outside the golden horseshoe - costs 1500 to apply for a single person and with other costs it comes to a round 2 grand (I had to pay it so I know). Since it's an incentive rather than a directive should be no Charter probs.

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:39 pm

scuba steve

Canada does send immigrants packing (after many, many appeals)

The thing is, Canada has thrown the same guys out more than once. I wonder how that happened...

LH · Post by LH » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:24 am

What do I want from immigrants coming to Canada?

I want them to realize that they are going to a different country than their homeland. I have various traditions, laws, dress and cultures than they do. I expect them to become Canadian by accepting all those items and changes. I also expect that when and if there are conflicts regarding differences in any of the foregoing, that it is THEY who will change and NOT I. I expect that they will be advised of same when and BEFORE they apply to come here, by our Embassies in those foreign lands. My Christmas celebrations, Easter celebrations, etc throughout the nation and thoughout our schools may come into conflict on occasion with their traditions and religions. I am sorry, but those traditions will remain SUPREME at all times and do not attempt to challenge us in some court over them. Understand that I welcome you here and want you here, BUT also realize that I want you to BECOME a Canadian......not use my country as a "rest stop" awaiting changes back home......because you wouldn't have come here in the first place if they were different. Do as many of us do and honour and practice the traditions and customs of your ancestors and we will respect you for that. We may even wish to join in your cultural celebrations and please allow us to do so......and we invite you to ours when they occur. Realize also, that during the first 3 years you reside here and are awaiting the chance to become Canadian citizen, you will refrain from illegal activities of ANY sort. If you disregard this condition, we will gladly throw you and your family out of OUR homeland because we don't want your kind. See, we have enough of our "homegrown" trouble-makers and have no need to import more from foreign lands.

If the above is acceptabe to you, then we are damned glad that you chose our country to come to because we need your kind to help our country prosper and grow. Lastly, should I wish someday to emigrate to your country, I will expect the EXACT same conditions to apply to me and my family and be welcomed by you also for accepting those conditions.

prop2jet · Post by **prop2jet** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:54 am

ICE ICE,

You might want to do a little more reasearch on the topic before suggesting that the rights of immigrants be removed. The problems of crime you speak of are systemic of a society that is losing it's grip. There is no fast and easy solution to these social problems when the goverment continually take funding away from many programs - education and health to name a few.

The reality is that many new immigrants to this country are professionals, doctors and engineers that come here with the hope of making a better life. All too often they arrive here only to find a mess of red tape to get through in order to make a living. Yes, there are foreign trained doctors working as short order cooks and driving taxis because we have a system that makes it very difficult for them to practice.

This really is not the medium to be discussing the issue, suffice to say having read your comments, I am compelled to add my 2 cents. You might want to go back and examine history a little and see what happened when the Nazis proposed their "solutions".

iwillflyajet · Post by **iwillflyajet** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:14 am

Prop2jet, I couldnt agree more with your statement made before....

if you have direction and motivation to get somewhere in life. you are not going to screw up your career, living a life of crime.
unfortunatly if you look at the root cause of crime it comes from being bored and having no direction.
also people who do not have nice things steal from ppl with nice things. it is a fact of life.

golden hawk · Post by **golden hawk** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:18 am

From the Toronto Star

Oct. 31, 2005. 05:09 AM

Canada to open doors to 255,000
Upper range for new immigrants
Larger boost still needs cabinet okay

BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH
OTTAWA BUREAU

OTTAWA—Canada will open its doors to up to 255,000 immigrants next year, the federal government will announce today.

But what the government won't announce is its plan to dramatically boost immigration levels by an additional 100,000 newcomers a year. Under that strategy, first floated last month, Canada would accept 320,000 immigrants a year, an increase meant to counteract a declining birthrate and aging population.

The department had been hoping to use today's target announcement to unveil its ambitious multi-year plan to ramp up immigration levels. But the proposal still hasn't received cabinet approval, signalling that there is some resistance to the scheme within government.

"It's still under discussion for the minister and his cabinet colleagues," said Stephen Heckbert, spokesperson for Immigration Minister Joe Volpe.

The topic of increased immigration levels is certain to be on the agenda when Volpe meets his provincial counterparts on Friday in Ottawa.

Canada accepted 235,824 permanent residents last year. Its target range for 2006 will be to accept between 225,000 and 255,000 new residents, according to the annual report on immigration to be tabled today in the Commons.

But as federal decision-makers debate the plan to allow more immigrants, there's growing pressure on the government to first tackle the challenges now facing the system. That, too, will be on the agenda at the meeting.

"He'll be having discussions about the issues they want to bring forward to fix and improve the system," Heckbert said.

Those ideas include encouraging immigrants to settle in communities outside big cities like Toronto and Vancouver, which have been traditional magnets for newcomers. As well, the politicians are expected to discuss ways of better matching immigrants with available jobs.

Ontario is expected to press its case for an immigration agreement with the federal government, one that would mean millions of dollars in new federal funding for Queen's Park to help newcomers settle here.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... alogin=yes

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:19 am

LH, Right on! Very well said!

No more BS · Post by **No more BS** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:05 pm

(without prejudice)

The problem isn't the first immigrants that come in the country as they are usually skilled workers. The problem is the 20 people they themsleves sponsor after that to get in. (20 is a pretty close average too...)

Heck, there's even an RC Church (nothing against the church) here in WPG that sponsors people from Africa all year round.

FYI: An immigration sponsorship is irrevokable. Once thery are in , that's it. Hence the reason why some new immigrants act like they f---ing own this country. (I've dealt with that s--it last week as a matter of fact so did my wife last year)

What the hell is Immigration waiting to make it more serious for an Immigrant to behave or face deportation?

My 2 cents.

ice ice baby · Post by **ice ice baby** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:20 pm

Just to clarify I'm not proposing a purely race based solution, but a different approach to immigration period. White and British or Black and African shouldn't make a difference. Unlike the Nazi's this would promote a more ethnically diverse population across the WHOLE country. Telling someone where to live isn't that much different than saying we need doctor's and engineers. For many years every now and again various governments discuss incentive programs or ways to get new doctors to work in northern communities that never seem to happen. The incentive here would be living in Canada......but with strings attached. I don't think telling someone if you want to live in Canada, then you have to live in X community for a certain number of years is taking away their rights. Many people are getting MORE RIGHTS the minute they step off the plane (or boat.)

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:49 pm

ice ice

I get what you're saying, the problem is that it is simply illegal. Even if some one was granted residence on the basis of living in one place, it is not legal to make them live there if they don't want to.

Had a look at wikipedia - Section 6 cannot be "notwithstandinged"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Si ... d_Freedoms

rotorhead350 · Post by **rotorhead350** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:59 pm

If immigrants don't wanna play by our rules then I say " Bomb the boat, Feed the fish". I'm tired of people coming to this country and taking advantage of it. I pay taxes(lots), and i'm sick of watching some guy just off the boat collect more money from our government then some senior citizen who fought for this country. It makes my blood boil. Whatkind of incentive is that for new people to the country to go find work?????

captain_v1.0 · Post by **captain_v1.0** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:36 pm

I'm with you all the way ice ice baby and rotorhead350, if you just fell off the boat and don't like the way we run the show or don't want to play by our rules TAKE A HIKE, WE WERE HERE FIRST!