"Does your company know you're here?"

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:34 pm

About this AC mainline interview question. What is the right answer, and more importantly, why?

Not everyone I know has been asked this, but seems the ones that let their company know right away they were going to an AC interview have been accepted, while the few that said no were not.

My own instinct would probably be to say nothing, do nothing until I had a job offer in hand. After all, what business is it of my current company that I'm looking for other work? By being open right up front does a person not risk limiting their likelihood of further progression in their current job, if turned down after the interview? The boss would most certainly shy away from promotions if you're not a "company man". Not to mention the embarassment or disappointment that surely ensues if not successful, and having to explain it to everyone and anyone at work as it spread around the gossip circuit. To me, this should be nobody's business but your own, until you give your notice of resignation (min 2 weeks, naturally).
Of course this is the biggest open secret in aviation anyway- everyone is ALWAYS looking for a better job (703/704's anyway), so it really should come as no surprise when you give your 2 weeks.

What AC seems to want to see and hear though is that immediately on recieving an interview offer, to tell your superior in order to provide the longest possible heads up for filling your soon-to-be-vacant seat. I can sort of see their point- it makes them look good in that they're not "stealing" all of a company's pilots with no notice. But realistically this is a professionally sticky situation for the employee. There are certainly grey areas. The company I work for has a well organized training department and is doing training on a regular basis. Filling my spot, if and when god willing

, will not be particularly onerous. I could see though that if you were one of say 6 DC-3 Captains left in Canada that as much notice as possible would be required, and it would require a hell of a lot more planning in order to find someone to replace that person. So what is really expected here? Tell your boss or keep it to yourself?

Harry Bagina · Post by **Harry Bagina** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:37 pm

Absolutely, 110%, do not tell your employer until you have the job.

Why? Because, most small companies are knee deep in politics. They are scared and worried of movement. If you don't get the gig at A/C, then you come back to your employer who knows that you want out, and then you jeoprodarize your future success there. Not all companies are like this, but most are. Last I checked, EVERY EMPLOYER out there is out for the best interest of themselves, NOT YOU, and don't ever let them persuade you into thinking otherwise. It is perfectly LEGAL and HONOURABLE to give an employer 2 weeks notice. The longer the notice, the classier you'll be. But I have seen too many people get shafted in various ways for being too honest. Also, how many times have I seen guys get baypassed for positions because the company deemed them "too high time to invest in, they may leave us......" scenario. Look out for yourself, but do it with class, respect, and dignity.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:17 pm

I'm not really talking about the ethical aspect of telling your employer. Let's just say for the purpose of this discussion that everyone would endeavour to give at least 2 weeks notice, and that the decision to not tell them about an interview would not be made with malicious intent. If I had annual sim coming up and was offered an interview I would of course ask my CP to push back my training until hearing back.

My question is more from the perspective of the AC interviewers- what information do they hope to ascertain from asking such a question? Is it a truth test ie. you say "yep told my CP last week" and then they (AC) phones him up and your boss says, "oh Dockjock had an interview? I wasn't aware"...and you're outed as a liar? Is it to see if you're there on the sneak? Called in sick to come to the interview? Or is it a test of how confident you are that you will get the job and have already told your boss? Or would that be arrogant?

I personally think that it would be best to not say anything, knowing full well that if successful I would give at least 2 weeks notice. But in reality, AC seems to like it if you have already "given notice". Why?

fuel_cutoff · Post by **fuel_cutoff** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:36 pm

Dockjock, you might be on to something...or maybe not.

All I know is that the advice given to me from those who have been in the industry a long time, was to be upfront with my present employer about my AC interview. Every company out there knows that (in my opinion) the majority of pilots have the dream to get to AC. So why not give your company the heads up that you might be leaving? If you get the job, then the company will appreciate the early heads up, and if you don't...well, then they know that at least they aren't going to lose you to AC and you are a person who is honest and has intergrity.

I let my chief pilot know that I was going for an interview and he seemed to appreciate it. Not sure if this proves my point, but I got the job offer just a little while ago.

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:46 pm

DJ, You said that you know of people who have been asked this question, so I will presume that it is not just hearsay(sp).

I don't think it is a Q that they should be asking you in the first place. Everything that HB said sounds like the real world to me. If you tell your present employer and then get turned down by AC you have just pretty much F**ked your chances for progression where you are now.

I wouldn't tell my present employer, unless I guess if I was with a Company where they are unionized and couldn't try to hold it against you in the matter of upgrades etc.

And BTW, while it is always nice to give 2 weeks notice when you leave an employer, and should be encouraged to try to do so in order to keep your name in good standing with your previous employer, in aviation we are governed by the Federal Labour Code, and according to it, you do not have to give any notice at all.

I do understand your question and the reason that you ask, but I can't really give you a good answer as to why they would ask you that question.

If every new prospective employer was asking this question, pretty much everybody would be screwed, as most pilots out there are generally looking out to further their career and improve their working conditions.

IMO

fuel_cutoff · Post by **fuel_cutoff** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:36 pm

"I don't think it is a Q that they should be asking you in the first place. "

Whether the should be asking that question or not...they did. I was asked if my company knew that I was in Toronto for an AC interview.

I don't think it's right for your company to black ball you if you've had an interview. In fact I'm pretty sure it's not legal. I think if a company were to hold you back from a promotion because you got the job with AC, and were just waiting for a course date, is one thing. If you didn't get the job... that's a whole other matter which I think a person could make a real issue with. Union or no union!

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:05 pm

Well there you go, I stand corrected once again.

fuel_cutoff, what was your response to the question?

Can you clarify that this was an AC interview as opposed to a Jazz interview. Not that it really matters, just nice to know.

I rather doubt that there is anything illegal about a company blackballing you that you could do about them holding a person back. If you don't have a union or an association that looks after the pilots well being you are at the mercy of the company and the people who make the decisions of who gets upgraded.

Believe me, I have been there, seen lots of good guys get passed over because they weren't in favour with the management of the time.

I stand by my idea that you don't tell you current employer until you have the call from the new company offering you a job. To do otherwise is just occupational suicide.

fuel_cutoff · Post by **fuel_cutoff** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:34 am

Since I had told my company, I simply said that I had let my present employer know about my interview. From what I can remember, the interviewers didn't really give any response to the answer, they just went on to the next question.

It was a AC mainline interview.

Pratt, I don't totally disagree with you on your opinion. I would agree that it might be better to keep an interview quiet if a person was wanting to make a sideways move, eg. Peace Air to Ken Borek or something similar, just to get out of their current company. As far as I'm concerned though, an interview with AC is a goal for most pilot's working for these smaller charter and airline company's, management knows this, and as far as I'm concerned, they treat and pay their pilot's with that in mind. Again, from personal experience, during the biggest interview of my career, it was nice to know when the interviewers asked me that question and later once again when I found out AC had called my chief pilot, that I had been honest with my chief pilot (everyone in the company didn't know).

grouchy · Post by **grouchy** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:58 am

Dockjock "Not everyone I know has been asked this, but seems the ones that let their company know right away they were going to an AC interview have been accepted, while the few that said no were not."

fuel_cutoff "Again, from personal experience, during the biggest interview of my career, it was nice to know when the interviewers asked me that question and later once again when I found out AC had called my chief pilot, that I had been honest with my chief pilot (everyone in the company didn't know)."

DJ, maybe from not telling, you will not have that reference, as AC will not call and give up the jig.

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:26 pm

I was approaching this from the perspective of "any" industry, whereas I now realize that it has to be approached from the aviation-specific perspective. In other words, totally opposite to apparent logic ;D. If one was a middle management VP for the Royal Bank, do you think for one second that if that person were to have an interview for a job at TD Bank that the very first phonecall they'd make would be to their boss just to give a "heads up"? Its crazy!

But fuel_cutoff makes some good points. I guess I've decided in my own mind that even though I don't necessarily think its right, it is what's expected and doing anything else could potentially be "occupational suicide" in that its not what AC wants to see, and you may not be offered the job because of it. Cheers (now I just need an interview)

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:32 am

The company wants to see if you're on good terms with your boss. Any reasonable boss in a 703 op knows that people will leave. I told my boss right awayso he could have as much time as possible to preper if I got the jobn. I also used him as a reference, and letting him know helps you get a good reference.

ANy other industry though, and I woul;dn't tell my boss.

LuckyPilot · Post by **LuckyPilot** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:41 am

Small companies for the most part understand when pilots move on to bigger and better things. That just a natural course of events, what pisses them off is when you move sideways,

for a cent or two a mile. People in the industry understand AC is hiring and that just moves people up, brings in new blood, and this is a good thing.

Now if I was working at WestJet, I'd keep my mouth shut, from what I understand they can make it extremly uncomfortable for you, for even considering working for AC.

Just as aside, unless things have changed within AC, they frankly don't care about your employer or how much notice you give them. That's just not their problem!!