AC Pilots leaving to the US?

[Malfunction]

Heard a story that at least 10 pilots from AC are in the process setting up working permits to fly for majors in the US, with 10 more behind? Is there any truth to this?

[a220hereicome]

Heard a story that at least 10 pilots from AC are in the process setting up working permits to fly for majors in the US, with 10 more behind? Is there any truth to this?

No

[Malfunction]

Lol figured. Alright moving on..

[lownslow]

In a group of 3500+ pilots (I think?) it’s not unreasonable to think that twenty are actively going through the legitimate steps to fly for a US carrier. Whether or not those actions can be seen all the way to completion and how their individual circumstances influence that process is the real story worth looking into, if true.

I bet more than that quit flying forever over a needle.

[a220hereicome]

In a group of 3500+ pilots (I think?) it’s not unreasonable to think that twenty are actively going through the legitimate steps to fly for a US carrier. Whether or not those actions can be seen all the way to completion and how their individual circumstances influence that process is the real story worth looking into, if true.

I bet more than that quit flying forever over a needle.

Totally agree.

It's not just a question of saying, "I think I'll go fly in the US for a living." You need a green card, FAA license, etc. Quite the process.

Pilots don't fall under the fast track rules of the medical profession either, so a green card is unavailable for most Canadian pilots at this point.

Lots of the usual uninformed chatter about this on the AC pilot forum though!

[lownslow]

Quite the process.

For sure, but I hope some number of pilots are actually doing it. I doubt I’ll follow but if a consistent way in can be established there are plenty who would benefit.

[bob99]

I know of one who left for a major in the US recently, but he's a dual citizen.

[altiplano]

Hahaha - typical from "220" ie. out of touch with the membership and in his own little bubble.

Yes, already a few have left to the US, multiple more are in the process, and I think it's going to snowball... The disparity is so great that the exodus won't be restricted to a few junior guys. AC management better get their heads out of the sand and get real on the pilot contract if they want to retain pilots.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Given the developing significant shortages of pilots who qualify for an ATP in the US I could see a fast track program for Canadian pilots with the appropriate experience to go to a US 121 carrier.

Given the salaries on offer in the US I think the Canadian 705 airlines ability to source crew at world low WAWCON’s may be in jeopardy by 2024….

[a220hereicome]

Hahaha - typical from "220" ie. out of touch with the membership and in his own little bubble.

Yes, already a few have left to the US, multiple more are in the process, and I think it's going to snowball... The disparity is so great that the exodus won't be restricted to a few junior guys. AC management better get their heads out of the sand and get real on the pilot contract if they want to retain pilots.

Getting a green card, unless you have some family connection, typically takes years. And given how long a Nexus card application takes these days because of COVID (2 year wait for an interview), I’m guessing green card applications are at least that long.

Have a look. Pilots aren’t on that list.

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green- ... categories

Snowball? I guess we’ll see.

[altiplano]

I’m guessing

You are... if a large connected company needs, they get it accommodated.

[a220hereicome]

I’m guessing

You are... if a large connected company needs, they get it accommodated.

And that is simply not the case with airlines in the US. Same rumours in the 90s during the big hiring boom. And nothing happened.

Medical professions, yes.

There are no floodgates that have been opened, which is why I don’t expect any ‘snowball’ effect. The percentage of pilots at AC who have dual citizenship, or some other family connection to the US, is probably less than 1%.

[jetav8r]

How many have quit to go other carriers or all together?

[JoeyBarton]

I know of one who left for a major in the US recently, but he's a dual citizen.

The one that left for Fedex?

[YC87DRVR]

Know of a Canadian pilot who just completed the process and is now in training with a US major. Had zero ties to the US before hand. Took about 11 months and 25,000$ USD for the immigration lawyer to get the process done.
Worth the investment given the large disparity in salaries. That 25k will be made up in no time.

[schnitzel2k3]

Hahaha - typical from "220" ie. out of touch with the membership and in his own little bubble.

Yes, already a few have left to the US, multiple more are in the process, and I think it's going to snowball... The disparity is so great that the exodus won't be restricted to a few junior guys. AC management better get their heads out of the sand and get real on the pilot contract if they want to retain pilots.

Thumbs up to this. I hope it works out for you guys, sooner rather than later.

[a220hereicome]

Know of a Canadian pilot who just completed the process and is now in training with a US major. Had zero ties to the US before hand. Took about 11 months and 25,000$ USD for the immigration lawyer to get the process done.
Worth the investment given the large disparity in salaries. That 25k will be made up in no time.

You know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows of a guy...

If you don't have a family connection, or a medical profession exemption, the EB-2 or EB-3 waiver is difficult to attain. It normally requires a certification from the US Department of Labor that the position can't be filled by a US citizen. There may be a case to be made at the connector airlines, but not at the majors.

If this was for real, then it wouldn't be a rumour on the ACPA forum. Delta, United, etc would be holding seminars in Toronto encouraging pilots to apply. Like the Chinese have done in the past. You could always pick up the phone and call the Delta Flight Operations recruiting coordinator to find out if they're actively recruiting Canadian pilots, instead of getting your information on the pilot forum.

Finally, don't forget that US pilots (just like Canadian ones) have a strong protectionist streak. There would be a very loud outcry from ALPA if they started hiring foreigners (and yes, Canadians are foreigners) to fill the cockpits at the majors. ALPA has already expressed this opinion in the past:

"The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Administrative Appeals Office has repeatedly found that airline pilot positions aren’t a specialty occupation, and ALPA continues to raise concerns about the misuse of this visa program."

That's from the ALPA website, albeit talking about one of their connector airlines.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[hithere]

Any US airline is able to offer an Australian an EB-3 visa to work in the US. I have no idea what special skills the Aussies have over Canadians that entitle them to this coveted Visa but that's the reality right now.

[Cavalier44]

Any US airline is able to offer an Australian an EB-3 visa to work in the US. I have no idea what special skills the Aussies have over Canadians that entitle them to this coveted Visa but that's the reality right now.

The Australia-United States Free Trade Agreement (AUSFTA) contains a clause that allows US airlines to offer EB-3 visas to Australians. The Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement (CUSMA) which replaced NAFTA in 2020 does not contain any such clause to allow Canadians to be sponsored by US airlines for an EB-3 visa. Obviously, this has nothing to do with the competency of Australian pilots vis-à-vis Canadian pilots, rather it is a product of bilateral agreements between those two nations.

The Canadian government has no impetus to push for such a clause, in part because airline lobby groups like the Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC) are spending millions of dollars to influence our elected officials and regulatory bodies. They are keenly aware that opening up the border and allowing Canadian pilots to seek employment in the United States would decimate the Canadian aviation industry overnight by depriving them of their pool of cheap labour.

[Ash Ketchum]

Maybe the US major airlines are offering H1-B visas for Canadian pilots? Although I think that to qualify for the H1-B it needs to be a job which requires a bachelors degree which a pilot technically does not. I looked into the EB-2 NIW and its not easy to get in that way as a pilot unless you possess some other very niche and in demand skill set aside from flying.

[FL320]

I’m guessing

You are... if a large connected company needs, they get it accommodated.

And that is simply not the case with airlines in the US. Same rumours in the 90s during the big hiring boom. And nothing happened.

Medical professions, yes.

There are no floodgates that have been opened, which is why I don’t expect any ‘snowball’ effect. The percentage of pilots at AC who have dual citizenship, or some other family connection to the US, is probably less than 1%.

For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.

[altiplano]

Know of a Canadian pilot who just completed the process and is now in training with a US major. Had zero ties to the US before hand. Took about 11 months and 25,000$ USD for the immigration lawyer to get the process done.
Worth the investment given the large disparity in salaries. That 25k will be made up in no time.

You know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows of a guy...

If you don't have a family connection, or a medical profession exemption, the EB-2 or EB-3 waiver is difficult to attain. It normally requires a certification from the US Department of Labor that the position can't be filled by a US citizen. There may be a case to be made at the connector airlines, but not at the majors.

If this was for real, then it wouldn't be a rumour on the ACPA forum. Delta, United, etc would be holding seminars in Toronto encouraging pilots to apply. Like the Chinese have done in the past. You could always pick up the phone and call the Delta Flight Operations recruiting coordinator to find out if they're actively recruiting Canadian pilots, instead of getting your information on the pilot forum.

Finally, don't forget that US pilots (just like Canadian ones) have a strong protectionist streak. There would be a very loud outcry from ALPA if they started hiring foreigners (and yes, Canadians are foreigners) to fill the cockpits at the majors. ALPA has already expressed this opinion in the past:

"The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Administrative Appeals Office has repeatedly found that airline pilot positions aren’t a specialty occupation, and ALPA continues to raise concerns about the misuse of this visa program."

That's from the ALPA website, albeit talking about one of their connector airlines.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Head in the sand with your management buddies.

[co-joe]

I believe just in the past week or so, the process to achieve a US work permit for Canadian pilots has slightly improved. It's still going to be a lot of work, but the door is one millimetre (3/64") more open now. Everyone I know with a US license has their ears perked up and is starting to seriously consider it, or is looking at paths to get the ball rolling.

[a220hereicome]

Head in the sand with your management buddies.

Sure thing. Let me know how that application goes with that firm in Hong Kong.

Can I borrow $5000 bucks?

[altiplano]

Head in the sand with your management buddies.

Can I borrow $5000 bucks?

Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.