AC Pilots leaving to the US?

[a220hereicome]

Head in the sand with your management buddies.

Can I borrow $5000 bucks?

Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.

Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…

[altiplano]

Can I borrow $5000 bucks?

Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.

Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…

Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.

[a220hereicome]

Shows what a sad state we're in when you can't cover $5K on your own.

Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…

Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.

Too funny.

How about we park this, and you report back in a year and tell us about how the floodgates opened and the mass exodus that followed. Or not.

As far as head in the sand..."chequebook?" This exodus you foresee, you think this is going to drive up pilot wages at AC? Wow.

[Ash Ketchum]

You are... if a large connected company needs, they get it accommodated.

And that is simply not the case with airlines in the US. Same rumours in the 90s during the big hiring boom. And nothing happened.

Medical professions, yes.

There are no floodgates that have been opened, which is why I don’t expect any ‘snowball’ effect. The percentage of pilots at AC who have dual citizenship, or some other family connection to the US, is probably less than 1%.

For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.

Good to know. I was told I don't have enough aviation experience for the NIW. What type of experience do you have?

[FL320]

And that is simply not the case with airlines in the US. Same rumours in the 90s during the big hiring boom. And nothing happened.

Medical professions, yes.

There are no floodgates that have been opened, which is why I don’t expect any ‘snowball’ effect. The percentage of pilots at AC who have dual citizenship, or some other family connection to the US, is probably less than 1%.

For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.

Good to know. I was told I don't have enough aviation experience for the NIW. What type of experience do you have?

ATP (FAA,TC,EASA) with type ratings and PIC hours on B737NG/A330/A321. The pre-covid salary is also taken in consideration for the NIW: the lawyer said it’s limit ok

[hithere]

Any US airline is able to offer an Australian an EB-3 visa to work in the US. I have no idea what special skills the Aussies have over Canadians that entitle them to this coveted Visa but that's the reality right now.

The Australia-United States Free Trade Agreement (AUSFTA) contains a clause that allows US airlines to offer EB-3 visas to Australians. The Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement (CUSMA) which replaced NAFTA in 2020 does not contain any such clause to allow Canadians to be sponsored by US airlines for an EB-3 visa. Obviously, this has nothing to do with the competency of Australian pilots vis-à-vis Canadian pilots, rather it is a product of bilateral agreements between those two nations.

The Canadian government has no impetus to push for such a clause, in part because airline lobby groups like the Air Transport Association of Canada (ATAC) are spending millions of dollars to influence our elected officials and regulatory bodies. They are keenly aware that opening up the border and allowing Canadian pilots to seek employment in the United States would decimate the Canadian aviation industry overnight by depriving them of their pool of cheap labour.

Thanks for that explanation. Makes sense now, although it begs the question, does Australian airline industry have such an excess of airline pilots that they are ok with losing them to the US?

[Ash Ketchum]

For your information I am in the process with a lawyer; for the new NIW that is applicable to pilots. At the moment it takes up to 18 months to complete the entire process (including a medical exam) then you get the green card. No need a job offer but a FAA ATP and extensive flying experience on jets. My lawyer got about 3000 applications/requests from Canadian pilots but they have selected about 220 pilots with the appropriate experience to pursue the application.

Good to know. I was told I don't have enough aviation experience for the NIW. What type of experience do you have?

ATP (FAA,TC,EASA) with type ratings and PIC hours on B737NG/A330/A321. The pre-covid salary is also taken in consideration for the NIW: the lawyer said it’s limit ok

Wow very impressive. I wish you the best of luck with your application. I was trying to get the EB-2 NIW process going as a regional captain but was told I needed more experience (and higher pay). My plan was to try and get into a US regional as an FO and hopefully flow through to a major US airline in a few years time.

[MontrealCanucks]

Come on, now.

I figured if you’re willing to part so easily with $5K to an unseen law firm in Hong Kong, or a Nigerian prince…

Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.

Too funny.

How about we park this, and you report back in a year and tell us about how the floodgates opened and the mass exodus that followed. Or not.

As far as head in the sand..."chequebook?" This exodus you foresee, you think this is going to drive up pilot wages at AC? Wow.

What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association

[schnitzel2k3]

Head in the sand...

People are going to go... tell your management pals to get their chequebook ready.

Too funny.

How about we park this, and you report back in a year and tell us about how the floodgates opened and the mass exodus that followed. Or not.

As far as head in the sand..."chequebook?" This exodus you foresee, you think this is going to drive up pilot wages at AC? Wow.

What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association

[a220hereicome]

What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association

You're not picking up what I'm laying down.

If you want to try and go work in the US, best of luck to you. I'm saying that most who shell out the $5000, $10,000 or $20,000 US for this process will never see that money again. The lawyers will gladly take your money, but their success rate so far is essentially zero. Ask them that very pointed question! And there has been no legislation passed in the US to change that success rate. Even the letter from that Hong Kong firm posted elsewhere on this forum speaks only of rumours. And you're going to hand over 5 large to a HK law firm based on that?

If a handful of AC pilots do quit and go to the US (those with family connections), this will have no effect on Air Canada's ability to crew the airline. Which will have no effect on wages. "Tell management to get out their chequebook, or I'm gonna marry me an American bride and leave!" Give me a break. That's not how we're going to achieve higher wages.

That's not concessionary thinking, that's a reality check for those of you who think that the floodgates to the US are about to open because they are desperate for Canadian pilots south of the border.

I always find it sad when I hear about people in India or Bangladesh being swindled out of their money by bogus immigration schemes to Canada. I think, how could they believe such a story?

[aeronauticaldisaster]

What is going to drive up wages is removing concessionary trained acpa reps from the association.

This endless, negative, defeated rhetoric shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership table of a elementary school student council let alone a professional association

You're not picking up what I'm laying down.

If you want to try and go work in the US, best of luck to you. I'm saying that most who shell out the $5000, $10,000 or $20,000 US for this process will never see that money again. The lawyers will gladly take your money, but their success rate so far is essentially zero. Ask them that very pointed question! And there has been no legislation passed in the US to change that success rate. Even the letter from that Hong Kong firm posted elsewhere on this forum speaks only of rumours. And you're going to hand over 5 large to a HK law firm based on that?

If a handful of AC pilots do quit and go to the US (those with family connections), this will have no effect on Air Canada's ability to crew the airline. Which will have no effect on wages. "Tell management to get out their chequebook, or I'm gonna marry me an American bride and leave!" Give me a break. That's not how we're going to achieve higher wages.

That's not concessionary thinking, that's a reality check for those of you who think that the floodgates to the US are about to open because they are desperate for Canadian pilots south of the border.

I always find it sad when I hear about people in India or Bangladesh being swindled out of their money by bogus immigration schemes to Canada. I think, how could they believe such a story?

You have done a good job picking up what the company is laying down and crapping it all over the pilot group.

Case law is always changing. And in life, there are no guarantees, but you got to value yourself and your profession unlike the previous acpa leadership who valued their displacements and daily extra credits.

6 years ago, thanks to the Dhanasar Case, nearly all pilots with 3,000 hrs were granted greencards.


Unfortunately this changed a couple years later and there was a period where only highly experience pilots were getting the waiver

But from 2020, there was a substantial change in the scenario: there was a Bill in October 2020 entered in Congress "for the purpose of supporting and promoting civil and military aviation and aerospace in order to address the demands and challenges associated with ensuring a safe and vibrant national aviation system.", highlighting the national interest in resolving the upcoming shortage

This shortage is very real and Canada is known internationally for having the best pilots in the world from our training and experience.

Pull up your pants and have some respect for yourself and for others. Stop with your managerial concessionary outlook and look at your peers and their training, education and capabilities.

Chin up everyone, Canadian aviators deserve better and there will only be one trajectory moving forward - upwards

[hithere]

“6 years ago, thanks to the Dhanasar Case, nearly all pilots with 3,000 hrs were granted greencards.”

This is the first I heard of this and a search of avcanada of “Dhanasar” brings up not a single post. Which pilots were granted green cards?

[throwawaycorporate]

People in this thread have no idea what they're talking about.

E-3 (not EB-3) visa is for Australians through a bi-lateral agreement. It's also not a green card.

EB2/EB3 - These are employment based green cards, that require specific employer sponsorship, and a prevailing wage determination. 12 months + wait time and "airline pilot" does not qualify.

EB2 NIW (national interest waiver) - This is what all these rumours are based on. It's ~20K USD, and is a shot in the dark. You are essentially self sponsoring yourself stating that you are "of national interest" to the USA. There is no standardized approval, they are treated on a case by case basis, and are subject to whoever is looking at your file that day. Are you a Bombardier test pilot? That'll probably get approved. Do you have a masters degree and develop sim training programs? That's a strong contender. If you have no education, have only worked on the line and haven't even converted to an. FAA ATP, this is a huge gamble.

Many lawyers will take the $$$, but there will be no promise of approval.

Delta/United/AA or whoever have absolutely no influence in the EB2(NIW) process. The very most that I'd believe is that a Canadian pilot has contacted a US recruiter that has said "If you convert to FAA ATP and get final approval on your green card, reach back out to me as you'd be a really competitive candidate"

Someone else mentioned H1B visas. These have been sparingly done in the past by SkyWest and Piedmont, no majors. You can actually see all H1B approvals here: https://www.myvisajobs.com/Airline-Pilo ... 2018OC.htm

[radio]

There's a need for pilots in US, regionals pilot that is. Majors are filled with applications from competitive US pilots.

Most visa that are offered will be sponsored are referred as non-immigrant visa. So your visa is tied to your employer.

Be aware that regionals are offering extensive money right now for pilots, so a regionals job in the US might even be better than a major job in Canada, until the music stops... Be also aware that the experience as Captain or FO in Canada is not acceptable experience to act as PIC for a part 121 (705 in US) . Most would have to acquire the 1000 hrs as SIC before eligible for an upgrade.
A ATPL Canada to FAA ATP transition also requires a ATP-CTP course. It's not impossible to make it happen, especially with a good lawyer, but people should reduce their hopes to work for a Major airlines like Delta, UA, AA. There's a lot of people to hire In the USA before foreigner, especially UA starting their own flight school and hiring CFI directly.

On the other hand, regionals airlines are hurting and the model will change drastically in the coming years.

[‘Bob’]

So… does this mean Air Canada is hiring?

[schnitzel2k3]

No matter the package, Canadian aviators when AC hiring.

[Stinky]

The shortage in the US is pretty severe. I work for a US ULCC and we're losing more pilots than we can hire. We have a lot of airplanes on order and big growth plans but I don't know if they'll happen due to a lack of pilots. We can't even staff the planes we have. Those that choose to apply to UAL, AA, DAL are getting called within a couple of days of submitting an application.

I've run into a number of Canadians working at airlines here and the majority immigrated through marriage. That's your quickest route. If you're single and contemplating spending $20K on an immigration attorney you're far better off spending that money traveling to the US and dating Americans.

Most recently I met a guy that was going through the H1B process for a regional and it kind of fizzled out. He started dating American women and ended up marrying one and got a green card a heck of a lot faster.

[a220hereicome]

But from 2020, there was a substantial change in the scenario: there was a Bill in October 2020 entered in Congress "for the purpose of supporting and promoting civil and military aviation and aerospace in order to address the demands and challenges associated with ensuring a safe and vibrant national aviation system.", highlighting the national interest in resolving the upcoming shortage

This bill you mention, maybe you should read it?

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BIL ... 1752is.htm

It was reintroduced in May, 2021. It talks about encouraging high school students to get into aviation, promoting the Young Eagles club, etc. It also mentions assisting US military pilots to transition to civil aviation.

There’s not one word about lowering the immigration barriers to foreign pilots. Nada.

I know that many on this thread want to believe that the floodgates are about to open, but I just don’t see it.

[dumpsterfire]

I think the point is that they have formally established that there is a shortage of pilots in the US.

The Dhanasa case established the framework for immigrating through the National Interest Waiver

https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/920996/download

The "floodgates" are not the result of US actions as it is "case by case" so each pilot must sell their worth to US immigration.

The "floodgates" WILL be a result of pilots scrambling to get away from ACPA and the pack of cronies who continually look to stoke a dumpster fire of their own making. These "leaders" all got to go. 2024 is approaching rapidly.

Time to hose down this dumpster fire

[elite]

I wonder about the Canadian federal government’s role in this. Although, the U.S may be in favour of it, they still have a work out a bilateral agreement. And the Canadian federal government is always lobbied, especially by AC, against such measures that put more strain on their cost, especially after changing duty rules just recently.

[flyingcanuck]

I wonder about the Canadian federal government’s role in this. Although, the U.S may be in favour of it, they still have a work out a bilateral agreement. And the Canadian federal government is always lobbied, especially by AC, against such measures that put more strain on their cost, especially after changing duty rules just recently.

totally agree, the government is probably keeping us here

[MontrealCanucks]

Canada has zero say on who the US lets in through immigration. Nada.

If a company wants to hire a Canadian pilot through a H-1B visa, than that is a process that is followed in the US.

The Honourable Transport Minister Omar Alghabra can't do anything.

Same goes for Green Cards.

[a220hereicome]

I think the point is that they have formally established that there is a shortage of pilots in the US.

The Dhanasa case established the framework for immigrating through the National Interest Waiver

I think you’re really grasping at straws here.

“Formally established that there is a shortage of pilots in the US.” There’s general agreement that there’s a global shortage of pilots, nothing groundbreaking there. Question is, is there any active movement by the US government to address this by lowering the barriers to immigration? As far as I can tell, the answer is no.

This ‘Dhanasar’ thing. Mookesh Dhanasar is a foreign national with a PhD in engineering who does research on hypersonic propulsion. NASA and the DoD weighed in on his case saying that his research is in the national interest. I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare a pilot with a Canadian ATPL wanting to fly for Delta to this case. Do you expect Delta to intervene with the US government on your behalf?

A previous poster said that Dhanasar’s case allowed any foreign pilot with 3000 hours to work in the US back in 2016. I wave a big BS flag on that one. Do you not think that would have made the news and spread like wildfire on pilot forums worldwide? Yet somehow we heard nothing about this.

[rudder]

Major US airlines are including in their quarterly SEC filings that pilot supply chain issues are and will continue to negatively impact schedule integrity and growth. They are planting the seeds.

My guess is that the US will start by pressing ICAO for an Age 67 limit. Beyond that, they will press to increase the pilot supply chain by creating a facility within the US immigration system for either temporary or permanent resident rights for qualified pilots (either with or without an accompanying offer of employment).

Just watch.

[a220hereicome]

Major US airlines are including in their quarterly SEC filings that pilot supply chain issues are and will continue to negatively impact schedule integrity and growth. They are planting the seeds.

My guess is that the US will start by pressing ICAO for an Age 67 limit. Beyond that, they will press to increase the pilot supply chain by creating a facility within the US immigration system for either temporary or permanent resident rights for qualified pilots (either with or without an accompanying offer of employment).

Just watch.

I'm watching.

Circle back to you in a year’s time.