Flight Training in the Greater Toronto Area

[Aviationenthusiast]

Hello, im a highschool student who has an immense passion for aviation ever since i was a child. I've always wanted to be a commercial pilot but until recently (course selections and pathway/career discussions) I've thought how? I did a lot of research and i'm aware of everything that i need to obtain (PPL, CPL, all the ratings, hours, etc...) and im also aware of the different types of pathways people here go though to become pilots (instructor rating, flying up north, airline pathway programs, etc..). I'm just not sure which flight school to go to? I'm in Mississauga and im aware of spectrum airways and BFC with their IATPL / college program. It just seems like all flight schools here have negative comments/reviews which makes it much harder to decide. I do plan on visiting a few of them here and speaking/listing my goals to them but does any aviator here in the GTA have any other suggestions or personal experiences/advice?

Please & thank you in advanced

[Bede]

Have you considered the colleges? (Seneca, Sault, Confederation)

[Aviationenthusiast]

Hi, yes I’ve considered Seneca college but didn’t do too much research about it! As for sault and confederation they’re not in the greater Toronto area so if I was to go study there, it would be nice and a little cheaper however the rent, groceries, and transport would pile up possibly making the whole experience as or perhaps more expensive than a flight school here.

[Bede]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the pilot puppy mills, but that's just personal preference.

Maybe check out alecmyersflighttraining.com.

[Aviationenthusiast]

Could you please explain what a pilot puppy mills is/are I’m not aware of it . And I’ll definitely check alecmyersflighttraining out! Thanks for the recommendation!

[digits_]

Could you please explain what a pilot puppy mills is/are I’m not aware of it . And I’ll definitely check alecmyersflighttraining out! Thanks for the recommendation!

It's a slightly negative term describing a school that trains hundreds of students, often implying they barely meet the required standards.

Talk to Alec, he seems passionate about teaching.

[Aviationenthusiast]

Thanks for the explanation and I’ll be sure to send Alec an email he definitely does seem passionate about teaching and being a flight instructor. Love to see it

[Bede]

I tend to hear more positive stories from students who attended small schools than those who attended large schools (BFC, WWFC, etc). Purely unscientific and probably coloured by personal bias so take it for what it's worth.

[Aviationenthusiast]

.

[ReducedSeparation]

Hi, yes I’ve considered Seneca college but didn’t do too much research about it! As for sault and confederation they’re not in the greater Toronto area so if I was to go study there, it would be nice and a little cheaper however the rent, groceries, and transport would pile up possibly making the whole experience as or perhaps more expensive than a flight school here.

I would encourage you to dig into the pricing a little bit more. These colleges are government subsidized meaning you pay less than full price for your flight training. Plus, if you are interested in getting a diploma/degree to go along with your flying (which some larger airlines are requiring or strongly preferring these days) then it becomes a steal of a deal.

For me, I had the opportunity to live at home and do my flight training at my local flight school (just outside the GTA) but it was cheaper for me to attend one of these colleges, including rent and my own groceries etc. I encourage you to continue your research and ask around as you are doing. Really dive into the pricing breakdowns for different flight schools and colleges and make an accurate price estimate for yourself including a little extra fudge factor.

Another thing worth considering is your timeframe, which many on this forum can speak to more than I can. You can usually finish your flight training faster at a flight school if you are committed and flying several times a week, however it will cost you a lot in a short period of time.

Best of luck.

[Bede]

I would encourage you to dig into the pricing a little bit more. These colleges are government subsidized meaning you pay less than full price for your flight training. Plus, if you are interested in getting a diploma/degree to go along with your flying (which some larger airlines are requiring or strongly preferring these days) then it becomes a steal of a deal.

All true, but when you figure in 4 years of tuition at Seneca, or additional living expenses + multi IFR at Confed, or pay for whatever the latest nonsense at Sault college, I'm not sure it's any cheaper.

[OtherRedBaron]

I can second (or is it third?) Alec. He's not cheap, but he's worth every penny. See, nobody will care where you got your PPL, once you have a thousand hours under your belt, so don't count on that. But he'll make you a better pilot than most anywhere I can think of. I think the thing that separates him from the crowd is that all he wants to do is teach people to fly, which is more than can be said for most instructors.

I've trained at the Brampton Flying Club. Some people call it a puppy mill. Some people call it THE puppy mill, at least in the GTA. There's some truth to that - but for all its faults, it is a very well run, professional flight school. Yes, they cycle through instructors like most flight schools, but put yourself in the place of a newly minted CPL needing 1500 hours, and you too would jump ship if Porter called. I don't blame them. And Brampton has many older, experienced pilots, teaching in their spare time, whom you won't have such a problem with.

Both are good options in my opinion, if you're looking at the private route.

[Aviationenthusiast]

Hi, yes I’ve considered Seneca college but didn’t do too much research about it! As for sault and confederation they’re not in the greater Toronto area so if I was to go study there, it would be nice and a little cheaper however the rent, groceries, and transport would pile up possibly making the whole experience as or perhaps more expensive than a flight school here.

I would encourage you to dig into the pricing a little bit more. These colleges are government subsidized meaning you pay less than full price for your flight training. Plus, if you are interested in getting a diploma/degree to go along with your flying (which some larger airlines are requiring or strongly preferring these days) then it becomes a steal of a deal.

For me, I had the opportunity to live at home and do my flight training at my local flight school (just outside the GTA) but it was cheaper for me to attend one of these colleges, including rent and my own groceries etc. I encourage you to continue your research and ask around as you are doing. Really dive into the pricing breakdowns for different flight schools and colleges and make an accurate price estimate for yourself including a little extra fudge factor.

Another thing worth considering is your timeframe, which many on this forum can speak to more than I can. You can usually finish your flight training faster at a flight school if you are committed and flying several times a week, however it will cost you a lot in a short period of time.

Best of luck.

Thank you very much! I appreciate you sharing your flight school experience here in the GTA. I'll try to further calculate costs of confederation and sault college or possibly look for a cheaper home/place to stay there if that helps cut a few dollars. Every penny counts.

[Aviationenthusiast]

I can second (or is it third?) Alec. He's not cheap, but he's worth every penny. See, nobody will care where you got your PPL, once you have a thousand hours under your belt, so don't count on that. But he'll make you a better pilot than most anywhere I can think of. I think the thing that separates him from the crowd is that all he wants to do is teach people to fly, which is more than can be said for most instructors.

I've trained at the Brampton Flying Club. Some people call it a puppy mill. Some people call it THE puppy mill, at least in the GTA. There's some truth to that - but for all its faults, it is a very well run, professional flight school. Yes, they cycle through instructors like most flight schools, but put yourself in the place of a newly minted CPL needing 1500 hours, and you too would jump ship if Porter called. I don't blame them. And Brampton has many older, experienced pilots, teaching in their spare time, whom you won't have such a problem with.

Both are good options in my opinion, if you're looking at the private route.

I was also searching for airline cadet programs and I was really intrigued to see that only European/Asian carriers have that type of program. I wonder why Air Canada and Canadian airlines don't?

[Aviationenthusiast]

I tend to hear more positive stories from students who attended small schools than those who attended large schools (BFC, WWFC, etc). Purely unscientific and probably coloured by personal bias so take it for what it's worth.

Mhm, maybe it would be a good idea to also talk to different students & people who trained at some of the schools around here but I’ve also generally heard better from the smaller ones too.

[Aviationenthusiast]

Could you please explain what a pilot puppy mills is/are I’m not aware of it . And I’ll definitely check alecmyersflighttraining out! Thanks for the recommendation!

It's a slightly negative term describing a school that trains hundreds of students, often implying they barely meet the required standards.

Talk to Alec, he seems passionate about teaching.

Thanks for the explanation and I’ll be sure to send Alec an email he definitely does seem passionate about teaching and being a flight instructor. Love to see it!

[PilotDAR]

It'll be useful to recognize how you learn, in order that you make a selection which suits you best. If you can pick up written training material, and watch the presentations, and absorb the content very well, you can "survive" through the "busy school" environment. That is because, in the busy school environment, you'll pick up on everything, whether it's pointed out and explained to you or not. It is a certainty that the busy school program teaches you the minimums - but they'll not teach you much more than minimums, and may not actually understand the basis of the training expectation or skill (doing it by rote), so learning foundations is more challenging. Some pilots don't strive to learn the foundations, just the minimums - I've flown with a few, and it shows.

The Transport Training requirements are minimums. from my observations, the PPL skills which meet the TC requirements are a bare minimum, which if maintained will keep you safe in a good infrastructure flying environment when nothing goes wrong. The skills gained between PPL and minimum CPL improve this, but do not make you super pilot. Once you train beyond CPL, it's more airline focused, which is fine, though the training diverges from some valuable skills.

So, you option can be to seek out more tailored training, and Alec is a very good source of this. Tailored training will teach you more than the minimums, and much more than the Transport Canada minimums. Understand that if Transport Canada put everything into the PPL curriculum, which should be there to assure that you graduate with a full set of skills, PPL training would take as long as CPL training. Fewer instructors could teach it well, and it would be discouragingly long. So, Transport Canada compromises, and your choice becomes do you seek out more for yourself?

Examples of training which may not be common in busy school environments: Takeoff and landing from surfaces other than a paved runway, Training on differing airplane types, forced landing training to a landing - multiple times to a good skill standard (as opposed to going around at 200 feet, with the instructor saying that you could have made it). And, an instructor who will point you to other sources of wisdom where that might help you.

Flying is expensive. The actual cost to operate a commercial light plane nearly always exceeds $150 per hour, let alone the value of the plane itself. You might go to driving school and learn in a beater which is valued at $6000. When you're at a flying school, you're flying a plane worth $50,000 plus - like driving an AUDI at the driving school - so a cost you'll have to pay. The flying school has a considerable organizational and paperwork background to comply with Transport Canada requirements, you're paying for some of that, and you're paying for an instructor. What's it worth to fly with a recently graduated low experience instructor? What's it worth to fly with a very experienced instructor? Which can teach you more faster? How do you learn? Do you need to be shown a few times?

I have flown (a few times) for the purpose of providing advanced type training to a new owner, to observe that that new PPL pilot cannot manage the basic skills to fly that airplane safely at all, much less the more advanced skills they will need, and more to the point, if they have an emergency. Okay, we can do more training. The problem was, that they were given a "puppy mill" PPL, and truly did not meet the minimum skills to handle the plane safely - and apparently, no one told them they really needed more training - they mistakenly thought that they were safe.

Go take an introductory flight at a couple of convenient schools, and inquire about an intro flight with Alec as well. Look deep into how the teaching would be done, and how you need to learn, and consider the value of the cost...

[Bede]

I was also searching for airline cadet programs and I was really intrigued to see that only European/Asian carriers have that type of program. I wonder why Air Canada and Canadian airlines don't?

Completely different industry in those countries. They don't have a pipeline of pilots that can gain experience flying smaller aircraft flying to reserves, medevacs, cargo, etc.

[Aviationenthusiast]

I was also searching for airline cadet programs and I was really intrigued to see that only European/Asian carriers have that type of program. I wonder why Air Canada and Canadian airlines don't?

Completely different industry in those countries. They don't have a pipeline of pilots that can gain experience flying smaller aircraft flying to reserves, medevacs, cargo, etc.

Ahh makes sense! If only It was like that here in Canada, would be cool, but of course it has to be about the money and business before us here :/ thanks anyway!

[OtherRedBaron]

Completely different industry in those countries. They don't have a pipeline of pilots that can gain experience flying smaller aircraft flying to reserves, medevacs, cargo, etc.

Precisely.

In other words, Canada still has a frontier. Europe does not.

[Bede]

If only It was like that here in Canada, would be cool, but of course it has to be about the money and business before us here :/ thanks anyway!

Be glad it isn't. I have way more stories from my few years flying 703 than I do flying for the airlines. I'd like to think that I'm a better pilot (and dinner party guest:) because of it.

[Aviationenthusiast]

If only It was like that here in Canada, would be cool, but of course it has to be about the money and business before us here :/ thanks anyway!

Be glad it isn't. I have way more stories from my few years flying 703 than I do flying for the airlines. I'd like to think that I'm a better pilot (and dinner party guest:) because of it.

Forreal? I mean live your best life man! I know you generally get more free time flying 703 than 705 but wouldn’t it be amazing to be able to fly in a 787 cockpit!?

[PilotDAR]

but wouldn’t it be amazing to be able to fly in a 787 cockpit!?

It depends upon what makes you happy. Flying the 787 would not make me happy - because, whoever owned the cockpit, would be telling me where and when to fly it. Alternatively, it can be enjoyable to fly with a little less direct oversight.

I once picked up a large single Cessna to ferry it. It was a fleet airplane. Other pilots for the operator seemed surprised that I was going to fly it somewhere. I was a little puzzled, isn't that what you do with airplanes? I chatted with the Chief Pilot over coffee before I left. He explained that his pilots were only permitted to take off, fly the prescribed sightseeing route, and return. Zero deviations. Then I appreciated my freedom a little more, as long as I got the plane safely to the destination, no one really cared how I did it. I enjoyed that flying.

On one of my trips in one of my airplanes, I stopped to camp for the night on the shore of a lake in northern Labrador. I was on a flight itinerary with friends, who knew where to look for me if I did not turn up back at base the next day. While I was camping in the silent wilderness, I thought to myself that there was no other person within 93 miles of me!

Try a little of everything as you determine what kind of flying you want to do.

[HD9113]

I was also searching for airline cadet programs and I was really intrigued to see that only European/Asian carriers have that type of program. I wonder why Air Canada and Canadian airlines don't?

Completely different industry in those countries. They don't have a pipeline of pilots that can gain experience flying smaller aircraft flying to reserves, medevacs, cargo, etc.

Ahh makes sense! If only It was like that here in Canada, would be cool, but of course it has to be about the money and business before us here :/ thanks anyway!

Not all... some Asian countries do have cadet pilot programmes that cover all the training fees of the cadets with the guarantee of a job offer once your flight training performance is good, but the selection is intense of course

[jpilot77]

If only It was like that here in Canada, would be cool, but of course it has to be about the money and business before us here :/ thanks anyway!

Be glad it isn't. I have way more stories from my few years flying 703 than I do flying for the airlines. I'd like to think that I'm a better pilot (and dinner party guest:) because of it.

Forreal? I mean live your best life man! I know you generally get more free time flying 703 than 705 but wouldn’t it be amazing to be able to fly in a 787 cockpit!?

Never underestimate the importance of PIC, it might seem awesome to go right to Jazz or Encore with 250 hours until guys junior to you in the company go left seat first because they have all their ATPL requirements and you don’t. You’ll also learn a lot of valuable experience either doing some bush flying, survey, 702, 703 etc… In the end you’ll be more confident when you get to the majors.