So everyone is leaving?

[digits_]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Don't think of it as whining. Think of it as discussing negative aspects of a job, in order to convince more people to leave the industry, therefore hopefully improving conditions for the people who stay behind.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Don't think of it as whining. Think of it as discussing negative aspects of a job, in order to convince more people to leave the industry, therefore hopefully improving conditions for the people who stay behind.

Culling the herd in Canada never works, there’s always bottom feeders that crawl out from wherever to work for nothing.

[qwe221sd]

"everyone" is like ten people. Nice.

why leave? Hiring is going up.

Grass is green on the other side!

Problem is right of work except for some countries accept expat but mostly in asia and they are still down..

[rookiepilot]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Don't think of it as whining. Think of it as discussing negative aspects of a job, in order to convince more people to leave the industry, therefore hopefully improving conditions for the people who stay behind.

Ah. Strategy....

[ICUP]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

[vanislepilot]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

I heavily agree with this and feel for you bro. Imagine, the top airlines everyone has dreamed of flying for force you into the most expensive cities in this country and don't have much flexibility for living and on top of it don't pay for a comfortable lifestyle. Do you know why people want to leave? Because the average house in Los Angeles cost the same as Orillia Ontario (This is not even an exaggeration) and even working for AC won't get you that house for many years. This country has changed so much in even just the past 5 years, heck even the past 2. People are choosing whether to have babies or save for a downpayment on some shack. This is not sustainable. Young people in all industries are getting screwed here, I think when the Americans inevitably open up for Canadian pilots, the REAL pilot shortage will be come.

[vanislepilot]

Like everyone in aviation. It's mostly all talk no action. Lots of people talk about leaving but none really have the means to leave unless you have a duel citizenship or married into another nationality.

People keep bickering about how awful aviation is. Was the same 20 years ago and will be the same 20 from now.

Even those of us with options internationally havnt jumped the gun and moved down to the usa/australia/Europe.

I don't think the issue is entirely just aviation, a lot of it is how hard the government has been screwing its citizens left and right making it impossible to afford a decent lifestyle here. That even when you make it to a major you still are living like a student.

*Oh and the solution is not to live in Regina if Toronto is expensive, you will inevitably have to commute there on your own dime and bunk with 15 other poor chaps like you on Dixon road.

[qwe221sd]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

[vanislepilot]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because it's still a dream for many, like it was for you and me. It beats being an accountant, working a MF 9-5, get lots of time off and travel privileges. It's a lot of fun being able to fly for work and many more will chase thay dream

[Bug_Stomper_01]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

Well written and sadly operators don’t care, the “I did it so you should too” attitude is everywhere in Canada. Look at the salaries from now compared to 25 years ago. They have gone down! It doesn’t matter what we do operators will keep shovelling out their crap jobs with crap wages as long as they keep finding fresh meat from wherever. It’ll never improve in Canada it’ll just dwindle down to despair to drive up rates 5% from the year before last and the zombies still doing this will get a small glimmer of hope and keep carrying on in misery. A wise man once told me when I was in college “it takes one with the sickness to ruin it for everyone else” I didn’t understand then, I CERTAINLY do now!

[PitchLink]

Kick over a garbage can fifty 100 hour wonders will come scurrying out looking for a job….

[qwe221sd]

Because it's still a dream for many, like it was for you and me. It beats being an accountant, working a MF 9-5, get lots of time off and travel privileges. It's a lot of fun being able to fly for work and many more will chase thay dream

Exactly, so operator don't need to worry about the human resource , plenty of dreaming guys line up from the door.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Exactly, so operator don't need to worry about the human resource , plenty of dreaming guys line up from the door.

[lownslow]

"everyone" is like ten people. Nice.

I flew with all of them last month. I think around 80% of my pairings were with pilots who had invested significant time and money into leaving.

[goingmissed]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

There are too many people who think that doctors and epidemiologists are out to kill them, that non-Christian religions are the reason for our world problems, and that the left is an identifiable group with a single mindset trying to take all of their "hard earned" money.

[tsgarp]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

There are too many people who think that doctors and epidemiologists are out to kill them, that non-Christian religions are the reason for our world problems, and that the left is an identifiable group with a single mindset trying to take all of their "hard earned" money.

There’s another group of people that think all the worlds problems come from white Christians, that anyone who identifies as anything other than a marxist is intractably evil and that doctors and scientists are completely immune to political influence.

[Conflicting Traffic]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

There are several others very much like it in years past that have definitely been read and mostly shrugged off… the reason…. Aerosexuality and they all don’t believe it till they’re too deep in and it’s too late.

[ICUP]

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

There are several others very much like it in years past that have definitely been read and mostly shrugged off… the reason…. Aerosexuality and they all don’t believe it till they’re too deep in and it’s too late.

Yep. I get aroused during walk-arounds, can't help it...

[Bug_Stomper_01]

This post should be required reading for anyone considering a career in aviation.

There are several others very much like it in years past that have definitely been read and mostly shrugged off… the reason…. Aerosexuality and they all don’t believe it till they’re too deep in and it’s too late.

Yep. I get aroused during walk-arounds, can't help it...

Most do pathetically enough

[digits_]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job. These threads might help change that a little bit.


Just yesterday I was talking to a neighbor who was wondering why I didn't fly for Air Canada yet. When I told him I would have to take a more than 50% pay cut to start out there, he understood.

There's a big survivor bias when people talk to 'pilots who made it' when they decide to go the pilot route or not. Flying clubs or flying schools don't invite jobless 200 hour pilots to give talks, they invite Captain XXX known in the area for YYY to give a talk. And when they say 'it might be hard at times to get started', people always think they will be the exception.


Regardless, I still think you can have a great career in Canadian aviation if you want to. I'm just not sure the airlines are part of that. But whatever you decide, make sure you know what you're getting in to when you start. It's unlikely you'll follow a career path as depicted by an FTU.


It's mind boggling how easy some people fork over 100k for flight training, without knowing the financial reality. Avcanada might have its flaws, but every new student should sign up before they can pass the PSTAR.

[rookiepilot]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

Well written, all. I wish you the best, i truly do.

If i had it easy in my career, which isn’t even aviation to be fair, I’d be a dick writing what I did, but I didn’t. Its been a good business what i do, but came with unbelievable early sacrifice, for my wife and myself.

And its never safe, never secure (my world). After 25 years, came fairly close last year to blowing up, totally broke. Many others did blow up. Better today, but who knows? Covid, Governments, made a real mess of everything.

Sometimes gotta move, all I am saying, to the field or location that pays. Canada, piss off if you won’t pay me. Loyalty— is for wives and pets, IMO. You’re a business, a contractor, gotta think like one.

And that means a hard nosed attitude where money is concerned.

[qwe221sd]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job. These threads might help change that a little bit.


Just yesterday I was talking to a neighbor who was wondering why I didn't fly for Air Canada yet. When I told him I would have to take a more than 50% pay cut to start out there, he understood.

There's a big survivor bias when people talk to 'pilots who made it' when they decide to go the pilot route or not. Flying clubs or flying schools don't invite jobless 200 hour pilots to give talks, they invite Captain XXX known in the area for YYY to give a talk. And when they say 'it might be hard at times to get started', people always think they will be the exception.


Regardless, I still think you can have a great career in Canadian aviation if you want to. I'm just not sure the airlines are part of that. But whatever you decide, make sure you know what you're getting in to when you start. It's unlikely you'll follow a career path as depicted by an FTU.


It's mind boggling how easy some people fork over 100k for flight training, without knowing the financial reality. Avcanada might have its flaws, but every new student should sign up before they can pass the PSTAR.

I totally agree with your opinion. And also pilot shortage is a big lie in this generation , jobless guy is everywhere.
Don't tell me the shortage is for experienced pilot , if so that means there's gap and who fill the gap finanlly?

[ICUP]

My $0.02 reading this:

Stop whining and LEAVE if that's better. Grow up. Toughen up. Shut up.

Do whatever it takes.

Sh-- the world is full of coddled sniveling little whiners.

Man, this kind of attitude is getting old. This is the issue. We toughen it up and keep everything to ourselves, and the moment someone just mentions something about wanting better conditions elsewhere = coddle snivelling whiner. C’mon man, people are free to complain about their work conditions and careers aspirations.

There’s a difference between people that are doing something (I.e actually leaving the country as discussed here) and people that are always complaining and “leaving” but here they are, year after year, not leaving or trying to improve the work conditions. Those perhaps are coddle snivelling whiners.

The reason I started this thread isn’t to whine. I am just surprised that this “leaving” talk is actually happening. Some do it just to make bank, but the vast majority are doing it because they simply can’t afford life here.

I’m a professional pilot and still I live month to month as I did during flight training. I’m not frivolous. I don’t buy coffee. I don’t have a Netflix subscription. I have side hustles, and sometimes I make more money doing random stuff than my flying job. My gas fill ups are getting 5 dollars more expensive every time. As many here, flying is my passion. I was aware that flying isn’t necessarily a money making job, however, I wish I could be able to save up. To splurge on a little trip with my lovely partner. To not having to check my bank account at the end of the month before every transaction I do. To be able to relax.

Some colleagues abroad make 2-3 times more flying the same type. The same job. I actually end up doing more than them. No winter ops for some of them during the winter

Some operators expect you to live in the most expensive cities in Canada, but the salary doesn’t commensurate. Maybe I could commute? AIF, standby… can’t afford a crash pad.

I slept in my car during my first job. That was fine. Now, I barely can rent something decent. Buying a nice place to live is completely out of the question. My “modest” rent eats up 1/3 of my “competitive salary”. Captain upgrade? Sure. Now I can start saving up, and I’ll be able to apply for a mortgage when I turn 78. Yay!

Many of my FOs sleep in a friend’s couch, or shower at a community centre, or live out of Timmies double-doubles. Many of my Captains are OT addicts, trying make up financially and emotionally with their families, struggle with health issues mainly due to the poor living conditions their endured during their first years in aviation.

I love Canadian aviation. Met great people along the way. Did some very exciting flying from my first entry on my logbook. However, like many, I can’t take it. Is the solution leaving for greener pastures. Maybe. Is the solution spreading awareness about how sh*tty our conditions can be, challenging our operators and improving from within. That’s more my style.

Well written, all. I wish you the best, i truly do.

If i had it easy in my career, which isn’t even aviation to be fair, I’d be a dick writing what I did, but I didn’t. Its been a good business what i do, but came with unbelievable early sacrifice, for my wife and myself.

And its never safe, never secure (my world). After 25 years, came fairly close last year to blowing up, totally broke. Many others did blow up. Better today, but who knows? Covid, Governments, made a real mess of everything.

Sometimes gotta move, all I am saying, to the field or location that pays. Canada, piss off if you won’t pay me. Loyalty— is for wives and pets, IMO. You’re a business, a contractor, gotta think like one.

And that means a hard nosed attitude where money is concerned.

Thanks bud, really appreciate it

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job. These threads might help change that a little bit.


Just yesterday I was talking to a neighbor who was wondering why I didn't fly for Air Canada yet. When I told him I would have to take a more than 50% pay cut to start out there, he understood.

There's a big survivor bias when people talk to 'pilots who made it' when they decide to go the pilot route or not. Flying clubs or flying schools don't invite jobless 200 hour pilots to give talks, they invite Captain XXX known in the area for YYY to give a talk. And when they say 'it might be hard at times to get started', people always think they will be the exception.


Regardless, I still think you can have a great career in Canadian aviation if you want to. I'm just not sure the airlines are part of that. But whatever you decide, make sure you know what you're getting in to when you start. It's unlikely you'll follow a career path as depicted by an FTU.


It's mind boggling how easy some people fork over 100k for flight training, without knowing the financial reality. Avcanada might have its flaws, but every new student should sign up before they can pass the PSTAR.

+1. FTUs are businesses, and businesses tend to “enhance” reality. I once overheard a FI giving a tour to a teen and her parents. He made it look so easy… he even pointed to a WJ 737 taxiing by and said the most atrocious lie ~ You will be flying those jets in no time!

I think that Avcanada would make people a favour if they added a pinned thread on their flight training section called something “The realities of being a pilot in Canada”. Although that might still not stop aerosexuals (Bug_stumper thanks for helping find my identity ) such us myself…

[Squaretail]

The point is why people still pay a bunch of money to flight school and pursue pilot career?

Because they don't know the realities of the job.

Or maybe they do, and still want to do it. Most pilots I know, who bitch about the aviation industry also have no experience doing other jobs. Or very limited experience. Lots of neophyte pilot resumes I see are guys and gals doing jobs I don’t envy, even though I’m sure many have better wages, schedules, or other pluses. The grass ain’t greener on the other side of the fence, or maybe it is. All that matters is what your personal path to happiness entails. A career in aviation isn’t for everyone, but it is for some. Even one might consider an aviation career elsewhere, it really depends on your point of view. I spend enough time flying around stateside to know it’s not all great down there, and I know enough expats to know that their lifestyle isn’t for me.

The point is just because one might be unhappy with your lot in life, don’t assume everyone else who’s lot you think is similar feels the same way.