Malfunction wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:22 am
All those wanting to come to Jazz expect to see this... T4 rich pay poor. Our deductions are huge. Our pay needs to increase
All those wanting to come to Jazz think twice !!! if AC is your dream job, just know that pilots from anywhere with +2000hours are interviewing. Jazz pilots that completed the process at Mainline before Covid are still waiting to restart the whole process, we're talking pilots hired in 2017 which is close to 5 years back. you do the math on when your turn is up. OTS (Without university degree) are getting offers in the meantime. all based on '' were short staffed in the express network so need you to keep your seat for now'' total bs and Jazz pilots seeing this you better get your voices heard cause it's ridiculous.
Anyone thinking you'll get to Air Canada quicker from Jazz better do more research. pay is ridiculous and our top notch union is giving the impression that they are completely ignoring it in our weekly emails.
So sick of this “our pay is low so we should just change it” argument. Everyone knows the pay is low. You think the union doesn’t know? They’re still pilots being paid by the company, you don’t think they would want more pay too? No one is ever going to want less pay. Fact is we signed an agreement and pay rates were part of that and unfortunately the agreement is in effect until 2035 (with a few times it can be opened before then). Pay rates have to be agreed upon by the union AND the company. The company isn’t just going to raise them because we complain about it and want it to be higher. We would either need to negotiate (and most likely have to give something up to get it) or there has to be 0 applications sitting on HR’s desk so they would approach the union to raise it to try and attract applicants. Yes inflation is high but they’re not going to raise pay out of the goodness of their hearts, they’re still running a business.
It would be more likely that we can try to make a change to the benefits to lower the cost then to see pay rates upped until the company has a need to.
Malfunction wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:22 am
All those wanting to come to Jazz expect to see this... T4 rich pay poor. Our deductions are huge. Our pay needs to increase
Jazz pilots that completed the process at Mainline before Covid are still waiting to restart the whole process, we're talking pilots hired in 2017 which is close to 5 years back. you do the math on when your turn is up
Yeah but things havent moved at all for 3 years. The line hasnt gotten any longer right? So once it starts moving it should still be around 2-3 years like pre covid no?
Malfunction wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:22 am
All those wanting to come to Jazz expect to see this... T4 rich pay poor. Our deductions are huge. Our pay needs to increase
Jazz pilots that completed the process at Mainline before Covid are still waiting to restart the whole process, we're talking pilots hired in 2017 which is close to 5 years back. you do the math on when your turn is up
Yeah but things havent moved at all for 3 years. The line hasnt gotten any longer right? So once it starts moving it should still be around 2-3 years like pre covid no?
The line is definetely longer with the integration of SKY pilots + 20 pilots each 2 or 3 weeks + Air Canada delaying as far as they can the ‘’ 60 %’’ agreement with Jazz to
avoid disruption in the operations.
Like I said, pilots hired at Jazz in 2017 are still waiting to do the whole process. The math is easy.
CanadianPilotQc wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:50 am
Jazz pilots that completed the process at Mainline before Covid are still waiting to restart the whole process, we're talking pilots hired in 2017 which is close to 5 years back. you do the math on when your turn is up
Yeah but things havent moved at all for 3 years. The line hasnt gotten any longer right? So once it starts moving it should still be around 2-3 years like pre covid no?
The line is definetely longer with the integration of SKY pilots + 20 pilots each 2 or 3 weeks + Air Canada delaying as far as they can the ‘’ 60 %’’ agreement with Jazz to
avoid disruption in the operations.
Like I said, pilots hired at Jazz in 2017 are still waiting to do the whole process. The math is easy.
I must be dumb could you help with the math? Are you saying a pilot hired now would be waiting 5+ years? Werent the SKY pilots already in line anyways, just in a different queue?
Everyones been "stuck" since covid (3yrs), being "stuck" since 2017 isn't just a Jazz issue.
I think both Jazz and AC know the 60% (or whatever the number is) flow will be a non issue starting 2023.
IF AC needs to hire 1000 pilots between 2022 and 2023 there is no way Jazz will be able to provide that 60% number. Simply put, the guys at the top of the list are staying, the pilots sitting around 2017 - 2018 hire dates will be pillaged and the “majority” of bottom 3rd of the list is made up of college kids with low hours.
Simple math says, AC is forming a new hire list that literally outpaces Jazz’s ability to offer pilots in the Flow. My thoughts, Jazz knows this and doesn’t care too much about forcing AC’s hand right now. The only thing Jazz cares about is opporations at this point and “retaining” as many body’s as they can to keep things rolling.
Yeah but things havent moved at all for 3 years. The line hasnt gotten any longer right? So once it starts moving it should still be around 2-3 years like pre covid no?
The line is definetely longer with the integration of SKY pilots + 20 pilots each 2 or 3 weeks + Air Canada delaying as far as they can the ‘’ 60 %’’ agreement with Jazz to
avoid disruption in the operations.
Like I said, pilots hired at Jazz in 2017 are still waiting to do the whole process. The math is easy.
I must be dumb could you help with the math? Are you saying a pilot hired now would be waiting 5+ years? Werent the SKY pilots already in line anyways, just in a different queue?
Everyones been "stuck" since covid (3yrs), being "stuck" since 2017 isn't just a Jazz issue.
SKY ‘’agreement’’ with AC was 10% flow and no interview was given to pilots who had less at least 3 years of seniority and at least a left seat. ( no interviews to fo’s).
To make it clear, An ex Sky pilot who integrated the Jazz pilot list with a date of hire of early 2017 will get the interview call before the Jazz pilot hired in late 2017. It’s all one now. No different queues. Note that 300 pilots joined from Sky.
People at AC are playing hard on the fact that they will disrupt the Jazz operation by hiring more of them, forgetting that the majority of those pilots are taking slavery wages as a sacrifice to go there.
Jazz is a great company, but the wages just ain’t it unfortunately. If you’re end goal is to go to Mainline, at the moment I personally think there are better options elsewhere.
Majority of us in the June GS are 703/704 captains with over 2000hrs. The thought has crossed our minds if we should have just stayed at our previous gigs and tried to go ots AC…I think the rationale is that either way, nothing is guarantee. If you can get PFOd in both positions where would you rather be, working your way up the payscale at Jazz or your previous gig? At least that’s what helps us sleep at night…lol
I guess you all are candidate to bid left seat on the next opportunity and I think that’s why you were given a ground school.
So even if you’re not going to AC in 2 years, you’ll still have the pay and benefits, but not schedule though.
Not an easy call to make.
link821 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:24 pm
Majority of us in the June GS are 703/704 captains with over 2000hrs. The thought has crossed our minds if we should have just stayed at our previous gigs and tried to go ots AC…I think the rationale is that either way, nothing is guarantee. If you can get PFOd in both positions where would you rather be, working your way up the payscale at Jazz or your previous gig? At least that’s what helps us sleep at night…lol
Normally i Would of told you at least your coming to an airplane fueled up serviced and ready to go but that's not really the case these days . + waiting with the parking brake on doors open (no pay) for hours waiting for a ground crew definately sucks though. At least flight plan is filled!
don't regret your choices it was the one you had to take. like I said, Jazz is a great airline. The only thing is The pilot group have to come together and get their voices heard so they can have better conditions/pay.
With ALPA we basically have come together but we are on a contract with a no strike clause (they also got us really expensive benefits) Until those resumes dry up, I doubt we will see any change.
We could however all book-off and shut down the operation for a day or two, heck maybe even three.
Nick678 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:32 pm
With ALPA we basically have come together but we are on a contract with a no strike clause (they also got us really expensive benefits) Until those resumes dry up, I doubt we will see any change.
We could however all book-off and shut down the operation for a day or two, heck maybe even three.
Honestly don't even have to go that far. Should just say 0 over time until it improves
Nick678 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:32 pm
With ALPA we basically have come together but we are on a contract with a no strike clause (they also got us really expensive benefits) Until those resumes dry up, I doubt we will see any change.
We could however all book-off and shut down the operation for a day or two, heck maybe even three.
Honestly don't even have to go that far. Should just say 0 over time until it improves
You honestly couldn’t get me to go near that shitshow with double overtime right now. A day away from YYZ is a good day.
Transition9er2 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:33 pm
I think both Jazz and AC know the 60% (or whatever the number is) flow will be a non issue starting 2023.
IF AC needs to hire 1000 pilots between 2022 and 2023 there is no way Jazz will be able to provide that 60% number. Simply put, the guys at the top of the list are staying, the pilots sitting around 2017 - 2018 hire dates will be pillaged and the “majority” of bottom 3rd of the list is made up of college kids with low hours.
Simple math says, AC is forming a new hire list that literally outpaces Jazz’s ability to offer pilots in the Flow. My thoughts, Jazz knows this and doesn’t care too much about forcing AC’s hand right now. The only thing Jazz cares about is opporations at this point and “retaining” as many body’s as they can to keep things rolling.
Just my thoughts is all.
T
AC has been hard pressed to fill its own PIT courses. This is for several different reasons.
I would expect AC will ultimately hire less than 300 during calendar 2022. That means 180 Jazz pilots. Looking like no Jazz pilots on AC PIT courses before September (first course this year excepted).
I could see AC hiring 500-600 during calendar 2023. There are limitations within AC training capacity. That will be 300-360 more Jazz pilots on AC PIT courses once again with weighting likely towards the second half of the year.
Once AC reaches ‘attrition’ hiring vs ‘growth’ hiring (likely 2024) then annual total hiring and flow rates from Jazz will stabilize at a much more manageable number.
With AC reducing some capacity while it builds infrastructure (majority of programmed cancellations for July and August are Express flights) things should become more stable and predictable.
Malfunction wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 12:50 pm
All those pilots wanting to work for Jazz as a DIC. This is a YR 4 cpt pay stub. As yr 1 Cpt you'll be 100-300 less.
Most relevant piece at the bottom is cut off - Net Pay vs Gross Pay YTD.
Also, where are employee/employer pension contributions?
Malfunction wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:12 pm
It's less, our benifits just went up...
What the actual F!@# Jazz, My after tax/union/pension net is $2600 bi-weekly flying a god damned PC-12. You JAZZ pilots should definitely all call in "Sick" for a week or two.
Malfunction wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:12 pm
It's less, our benifits just went up...
What the actual F!@# Jazz, My after tax/union/pension net is $2600 bi-weekly flying a god damned PC-12. You JAZZ pilots should definitely all call in "Sick" for a week or two.
probably 2% of the pilot group have the guts to do so
. 
