Are the Feds pissed at Alberta for not sharing?

[swede]

Post another win for B.C.! Alberta, what a shithole - the feds finally have it right.

[mellow_pilot]

Ontario and Quebec have been bleeding the west for years.
Ontario is still paying in the 0.80's for gas while its a buck in the west.

Quebec is a havenot, has been for a while. Ontario is a have province and has been paying everyone else for years. Infact Ontario and Alberta are the ones most consistantly above the equalization line. BC has only recently been a have province. Ontario is still a have.

80 cents!! Where? I was there, don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining! Abbotsford is well below most of Ontario.

EVERY OTHER province is going to want to keep there natural resource money also (ie. Newfoundland's offshore drilling, Nunavut's minerals)

NWT has all the operatin diamond mines in Canada (as far as I know) and the keep exactly 0% of the profits from the mines. They get $0 in compensation for the mineral rights. Welcome to being a "Territory" and not a Province.

[Dust Devil]

I belive sask has an operational diamond mine now. not certin but I thought I heard something about that. I know they did find diamonds.

[Localizer]

Dust Devil ....

The deal is that everyone whats public health care, everyone wants social programs, everyone wants, wants and wants ... but when it comes time for everyone to pay there fair share ........ Wooohhhoo! Hold the train, don't touch me, make them pay more! Don't touch our oil money, well if you want, then you've gotta pay.

You're not going to like this but this country has been living off the back of Ontario for way too long. Time for someone else to bring home the bacon, and if its oil then so be it.

Same in NFLD and the offshore drilling .. They live on welfare 6 of 12 months a year and now they have a way to payback what people have given them.

Saskatchewan - Natural resource ..... wheat ...... yeah wheat?

[172pilot]

whoever invested in the asset should get the reward. the two largest investors in alberta are the americans and the middle eastern countries. companies take huge risks in the oilsands. it took forty years to get the technology right. too many canadians think you drill a hole (which can cost 5 million+) and just drain out the oil. it's also no easier to find natural gas now. most wells are deep and carry sour gas risks etc. big risk and investment carry big rewards but those should stay with those who invest. alberta took measures many years ago to cut social spending and reducing taxes to make it an attractive province to do business. it's not all oil and gas. face it. alberta has created the most attractive business environment in canada. it's why it now has the highest amount of corporate headquarters next to ontario. remember investment flows to the least restricted area. the oil wouldn't flow if the tax schemes/lack of investment prohibited it. ie venezuela.

canada should focus on creating wealth instead of figuring out schemes to redistribute it. we need to take a look at countries like ireland who got labour unions and government onside to make massive tax cuts and social spending cuts twenty years ago. now they have a powerhouse economy which everyone can participate in. there is NO reason why alberta should make this an attractive climate and share with the likes of communist saskatchewan which i origate from. time to create wealth in all provinces and not just from natural resources. lets follow other leaders instead of bitching and wanting other provinces to share. ie: sask can be a perfect spot for manufacturing but they have the highest corporate taxes in the country... it's their own fault. time to attract business - not tax it to death.

[North Shore]

face it. alberta has created the most attractive business environment in canada. it's why it now has the highest amount of corporate headquarters next to ontario

Ya, oil revenues enable you to cut the tax rates, and so business moves to where they can pay the least and make the most. If you created a tax-exempt zone in Iqaluit, how long do you think it'd be before head offices were located up there? Everybody thinks that King Ralph and his finance ministers are geniuses for the economic turnaround in AB, when in actual fact a retarded chimpanzee could create a surplus budget and low tax rates there when they pump money out of the ground...

the oil wouldn't flow if the tax schemes/lack of investment prohibited it. ie venezuela

Not a great example, I'm afraid, they can't be doing that badly http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html- 9th on the list of producers, and 5th on the list of exporters, and Chavez wants to use the money to benefit his people...those damned socialists!

[C-206]

NDP will take care of B.C. being a 'have' province next election.
Swede, Alberta always has room for high time guys like you.
When the B.C. recession hits in a year, hope you don't mine sitting behind a 2000h captain.
Have fun, loser.

[172pilot]

North Shore. In the 50's Venezuela said 'plant the oil'. Instead of 9th, maybe they can be the fifth largest producer. Today, they haven't diversified. The national/state run oil company is corrupt as ever. Severly underfunded. He's doing a dis-service to his people. Their revenues could be at double by allowing foreign investment. Socialists have RUINED that country. Similar idea. When Potash Corp was a crown corp in Saskatchewan. Sure, it provided revenues. Then it was privatized and now is a world leader. Same deal with Cameco in Sask. You'd be saying, oh look at the NDP providing us $$ with these great crown corps.. but after those companies were allowed to pursue their full potential outside of being run by political leaders turned corporate managers you can see how they weren't providing what it could. Many times over, you will read studies in Sask about how UNPRODUCTIVE their crown corps are. Yes. Those damn socialists. Look at what the NDP do to provinces here.

[cyyz]

Many times over, you will read studies in Sask about how UNPRODUCTIVE their crown corps are. Yes. Those damn socialists. Look at what the NDP do to provinces here.

We had an article in the Sun about our "welfare retrieval unit in TO" they spent 1.5 million to recover $680,000..

Brilliant gov't....

They probably spent another 100k on the audit to figure out the department was a waste...

[172pilot]

when in actual fact a retarded chimpanzee could create a surplus budget and low tax rates there when they pump money out of the ground...

I work in this industry. Alberta didn't have high taxes, big oil finds, then low taxes. Other way around. Again, it's why Sask lost all the investment during the boom in the 50s and 60s when oil investment was going on in AB. Comment on why Saskatchewan doesn't have a natural gas gathering system and why this is holding back companies from drilling new gas wells there. Even if they have tons of gas, how do you get it from a well to production system? They simply don't have the infrastructure. Whose fault is that other than their own. High taxes and a hatred in private companies in the 50s held this back. Instead, Alberta used public money to build a network of gathering lines. Then they diversified by building the Alberta Ethane Gathering System. Now, they gather the ethane liquids in the gas and have a huge petro chemical industry. When gas prices are low, the petrochemical industy booms from the ethane they gather instead of leaving it in gas streams. When gas prices are high the producers boom. Now the industy is hedged to prices either way. Sask didn't do ANY of this. I guess a monkey in Alberta came up with this. Comment on the hundreds of billions AB/investors risked to pump the money out of the ground as you say. The oil doesn't flow freely. This isn't saudi arabia with low cost production. Again, most investment came from the US and Middle East. Canada gets its fair share via income taxes and transfer payments from AB each year. If Sask makes billions someday off uranium/oil/gas etc, it is theirs to keep. Just because you have resources doesn't mean you'll make big money. Each province should have an incentive to focus and grow it's economy through ample economic rewards.

[Westrules]

I would just like to wonder why everyone that doesn't live in Alberta wants a piece of the pie but keep putting down Ralph and calling my home a shit hole. If you don't want to move here and put in a effort to make our country a success don't complain about being a "have not". There is a reason Western Canada should seperate and it is because of useless lazy assholes like you. Maybe you would like communism. Can you tell me why people from all over the world would like to live in Canada? Yes its because the great living conditions and the opportunities. Right now the opportunities are in Western Canada so don't get all jealous and start crying. Suck it up and get back to work and make your province a "have" province. Typical liberal babies. You all create your own anamosity. Oh ya it's to cold in Alberta for snakes and monkeys but I hear Ontario is warm.

[Localizer]

172pilot ...

So this is what you are trying to say? Cut taxes for corporations to move in and make a crap load of money off Canadians and the natural resources of this country. Keep taxes high for the average Canadian and let the fat cats keep getting fatter? Good idea .... please allow me to donate more of my money to everyone else!

I don't care if they spent loads of cash on creating the technology to get the oil out of the sand. Our oil, our money. Im sure that the middle eastern oil gods are swimming in boat loads of cash, and the Americans .... well .... I see more big trucks, SUV's, Hummers on the road anymore over there that im sure things are doing just fine.

This is a country ... live and grow as one.

[Dust Devil]

172pilot ...

So this is what you are trying to say? Cut taxes for corporations to move in and make a crap load of money off Canadians and the natural resources of this country. Keep taxes high for the average Canadian and let the fat cats keep getting fatter? Good idea .... please allow me to donate more of my money to everyone else!

Where did he say this? There is a quote feature for a reason. So stupid people don't miss quote people. However I guess the quote feature is a little tricky to use

[mellow_pilot]

Typical liberal babies. You all create your own anamosity. Oh ya it's to cold in Alberta for snakes and monkeys but I hear Ontario is warm.

Warm? You've obviously not been to Ontario in a while. Right now it's fall. See Ontario, like most places in the world, has these changes in climate called SEASONS. Fall is kinda cold and colourful, winter is often really cold and snowy, spring is usually pretty wet, and summer is warm and sunny. Hope that helps.

Ontario is not a uphamism for Toronto. Not everyone in Ottawa is a politician. Just like not everyone in Alberta is an oil-drilling cowboy.

[Localizer]

Im saying that is the gist of his point .... anyways, it is pointless to continue.

[172pilot]

localizer,

canada didn't have the investment capital nor resources to do it alone. whats wrong with having international investors? i dont have a problem with them spending their money here and having jobs spinoff. i'm sure many pilots here have a job because of the industries we have developed. canada invests offshore, and we accept offshore investments. everyone can make a gain from it. also, if you think the companies make boat loads of cash you can buy their shares or hopefully your pension is making good money during the recent rally. again, they don't run off with profits. they hire local people. they pay top wages. they buy new technology. hire local companies for services. they pay dividends on stock. the money doesn't go into a secret bank account. given that the majority of our commodity companies (not just alberta by any means) are foreign owned or financed, this isn't anything new and i think a lot of canadians are living a better life because of it through employment, pensions or investments.

[cyyz]

localizer,

canada didn't have the investment capital nor resources to do it alone. whats wrong with having international investors? i dont have a problem with them spending their money here and having jobs spinoff..

LoL, well someone needs to keep our boys working and it's not our government or corporations, Bombardier and their 300 million dollar deal for the jet, first thing they did was opened a plant in Mexico for 200 million..

[Dust Devil]

Im saying that is the gist of his point .... anyways, it is pointless to continue.

Right there folks is another tactic used when you have no argument. Make stuff up. Why not let the people who are making their point say what the "gist" of it is.

[Starving4Hours]

Did anyone ever notice that back in the sandbox no one ever did favours for the kid who kicked sand in your face? Guess what, the same still hold true. I've lived in both AB and ON and I know I'm going to get yelled at for what I'm about to say.

There are a lot of fabulous people in both provinces and Ontario gets points for not electing a red-neck, wife-beating, high school-drop out, alcoholic to rule the province, however per capita they also have more people who will screw you over, belittle you or run over your dog if it's profitable. The people of Ontario define it as the big city way or just the way the world is today but you can't do business in Ontario without having everything in writing and if you say hi to a stranger you're going to at least get a funny look if not an outright agressive response. I even had one person who I confronted for being deceitful defend himself simply by saying "Welcome to Ontario" WTF?

That's not the way it is in AB. You can still do business by the honnour system out there and commit to a contract with a handshake, and talk to strangers. So why is everyone suprised that Albertans are wary of doing business with the East let alone giving away money with no written gaurantee that it will be repayed in the future.

Realisticaly guys, if you won the lottery would you be helping out your neighbour that says hi to you every morning or the one down the road who pretends he didn't see you wave when you pass? It's just human nature that the people you trust are the one's you help. We can't change human nature so why don't we try restoring trust instead?

[Dust Devil]

Did anyone ever notice that back in the sandbox no one ever did favours for the kid who kicked sand in your face? Guess what, the same still hold true. I've lived in both AB and ON and I know I'm going to get yelled at for what I'm about to say.

There are a lot of fabulous people in both provinces and Ontario gets points for not electing a red-neck, wife-beating, high school-drop out, alcoholic to rule the province, however per capita they also have more people who will screw you over, belittle you or run over your dog if it's profitable. The people of Ontario define it as the big city way or just the way the world is today but you can't do business in Ontario without having everything in writing and if you say hi to a stranger you're going to at least get a funny look if not an outright agressive response. I even had one person who I confronted for being deceitful defend himself simply by saying "Welcome to Ontario" WTF?

That's not the way it is in AB. You can still do business by the honnour system out there and commit to a contract with a handshake, and talk to strangers. So why is everyone suprised that Albertans are wary of doing business with the East let alone giving away money with no written gaurantee that it will be repayed in the future.

Realisticaly guys, if you won the lottery would you be helping out your neighbour that says hi to you every morning or the one down the road who pretends he didn't see you wave when you pass? It's just human nature that the people you trust are the one's you help. We can't change human nature so why don't we try restoring trust instead?

Well said.

[just another pilot]

I just read this thread. Sorry to the guys at Spar and all my best. Localizer - you must be trolling or in junior high. One of the major points of contention in Alberta is attitudes like yours. Share the wealth? Where has your head been tucked? Alberta gives more than its fair share in confederation. $10,000,000,000 - big number, and that is approximately what Alberta residents will transfer to our partners this year.

You're welcome.

[Dust Devil]

I'm gonna hold you to this $9 a barrel crap.

Getting closer

[foxmoth]

you people talking oil at $20 barrel need to wake up and do reserch.
oil sands need $60 to even think of investing. Do you no what "Peak oil' is? Production going down, consumption going up. Major oilfields have falling production , price of exploring going up, remote extraction and enhancing getting harder.
There is a sugestion that oil shud be fixed at $125. No company will survive pumping oill at less than cost of produce.
thats why oil snads projects are being canceled. Nobody drilling anymore. Look at what OPEC tried to do yesterday, pump less to keep price up.
when the recesson is over, oil will be short in supply. The price will go over $200. The only gas we can get for airplanes will be maybe $10 per litre, so nobody flies, pilots out of jobs.So, layoffs coming soon, no jobs when things improve.
good luck.

[foxmoth]

just relized this thread is 3 years old.. /?????
but look at what has happened!!!!
I have to agree with just another pilot, localizer knows nothing.
Alberta has given billions to the 'have[nots' and now, in 2008, Ontariois going in the tank mostly because the
carr workers are riding a dinosaur.
also, localizer, if you read this, Saskatchewan is not just "wheat"
the province has very healthy oil and gas reserves, potash is a major resource, worldwide, diamonds are there, and Sask oilsnands cover more area than Albertas. Now it has a government intent on extracting these resources. SO, guess you need to study your own country and stop beiong ignorant.