Up to 300 new hires in 2022

[teacher]

Word is new hire interviews have started. Up to 300 new hires by the end of the year than a regular interval of new hires in 2023.

Good luck to all!

[bob99]

More good news- calls have gone out for the May new hire class.

[teacher]

More good news- calls have gone out for the May new hire class.

Even better!

[Transition9er2]

Any estimates on potential numbers for 2023?

Not sure what regular interval of new hires means.

T.

[elonmusk]

No one knows. Currently around 400 vacancies. All of which need to be filled before spring 2023, as bids look out one year. By the next bid or the bid in the fall we will have a better idea on what kind of crewing levels will be required in summer/fall 2023 and therefore what kind of hiring.

[teacher]

Any estimates on potential numbers for 2023?

Not sure what regular interval of new hires means.

T.

All I was told was regular ground schools in 2023. I’m assuming a steady hiring schedule to fill what comes out in the equipment bids. As mentioned 400 vacancies for the next 12 months so at the very least 300 this year and another 100 or so in the first 4 months of 2023.

Seems like a class of 20-25 every 3 weeks-ish? 2 weeks PIT course, break than another 20-25

That’s just a guess based on what was posted here. I am not privy to the actual plan.

[lownslow]

In early 2020 there were something like 900 vacancies posted. Since then there have been retirements, pilots leaving, and a purchase order for new aircraft. If things keep going as they are I hope 300 new hires represent just the tip of the iceberg.

[reachfortheskiies]

In early 2020 there were something like 900 vacancies posted. Since then there have been retirements, pilots leaving, and a purchase order for new aircraft. If things keep going as they are I hope 300 new hires represent just the tip of the iceberg.

Not sure where those pilots will come from, I’m in my early twenties. Very few of my peers across the industry seem to be interested in AC’s flat pay when wages across the 704/703 world are rising due to staffing squeezes.

[garfield]

In early 2020 there were something like 900 vacancies posted. Since then there have been retirements, pilots leaving, and a purchase order for new aircraft. If things keep going as they are I hope 300 new hires represent just the tip of the iceberg.

Not sure where those pilots will come from, I’m in my late twenties, corporate side. Very few of my peers across the industry seem to be interested in AC’s flat pay when wages across the 704/703 world are rising due to staffing squeezes.

200 hours cadets?

[schnitzel2k3]

In early 2020 there were something like 900 vacancies posted. Since then there have been retirements, pilots leaving, and a purchase order for new aircraft. If things keep going as they are I hope 300 new hires represent just the tip of the iceberg.

Not sure where those pilots will come from, I’m in my late twenties, corporate side. Very few of my peers across the industry seem to be interested in AC’s flat pay when wages across the 704/703 world are rising due to staffing squeezes.

200 hours cadets?

It looks like some mid career FOs from WS may be considering the move due to mismanagement at WS. Transat has lost some appeal due to long term stability and Porter hans't fired up it's Embraers yet. So I think the pool is still decent 705 experience, with some 3-4K 704. It'll be interesting come fall to see when business is back to normal. Probably close to 80% Jazz, 20% OTS.

[newlygrounded]

In early 2020 there were something like 900 vacancies posted. Since then there have been retirements, pilots leaving, and a purchase order for new aircraft. If things keep going as they are I hope 300 new hires represent just the tip of the iceberg.

Not sure where those pilots will come from, I’m in my late twenties, corporate side. Very few of my peers across the industry seem to be interested in AC’s flat pay when wages across the 704/703 world are rising due to staffing squeezes.

If AC gets rid of flat pay I see that problem going away?

[co-joe]

In early 2020 there were something like 900 vacancies posted. Since then there have been retirements, pilots leaving, and a purchase order for new aircraft. If things keep going as they are I hope 300 new hires represent just the tip of the iceberg.

Not sure where those pilots will come from, I’m in my late twenties, corporate side. Very few of my peers across the industry seem to be interested in AC’s flat pay when wages across the 704/703 world are rising due to staffing squeezes.

200 hours cadets?

That's my guess, they did it in 72, they can do it again. Back then it was to the back seat of the 727 and Tristar, now RPs don't really need to be able to fly do they?

[alkaseltzer]

Not sure where those pilots will come from, I’m in my late twenties, corporate side. Very few of my peers across the industry seem to be interested in AC’s flat pay when wages across the 704/703 world are rising due to staffing squeezes.

200 hours cadets?

It looks like some mid career FOs from WS may be considering the move due to mismanagement at WS. Transat has lost some appeal due to long term stability and Porter hans't fired up it's Embraers yet. So I think the pool is still decent 705 experience, with some 3-4K 704. It'll be interesting come fall to see when business is back to normal. Probably close to 80% Jazz, 20% OTS.

Why would WS pilots consider AC and not the USA?

[schnitzel2k3]

Ask them, dudes posting somewhere in this section, seeking peer advice.

I think it's a toss up being 6-7 years at WS and jumping ship to AC.

[TheStig]

In early 2020 there were something like 900 vacancies posted. Since then there have been retirements, pilots leaving, and a purchase order for new aircraft. If things keep going as they are I hope 300 new hires represent just the tip of the iceberg.

Not sure where those pilots will come from, I’m in my late twenties, corporate side. Very few of my peers across the industry seem to be interested in AC’s flat pay when wages across the 704/703 world are rising due to staffing squeezes.

There are about 900 vacancies again. 300 new hires in 6 months is the capacity of the training system, which also is required for active pilots switching positions, upgrading or doing recurrent training.

I think it’s been discussed on the Jazz forum, but most (if not all) of the pilots hired this year have been from operators not named Jazz. I believe the operational strategy is to hire from Jazz to meet the annual hiring quota (60%?) after the summer to help Jazz (and therefore AC) protect the integrity of the flying schedule.

A quick look through the new hire bios shows pilots coming from Cathay, Flair, Sunwing, Encore, Pacific Coastal, Porter, RCAF. Pretty impressive resumes to be honest considering how low the first year pay rates are. Increasing the starting pay would no doubt help increase the number of more qualified applicants at AC, every business would love to have the biggest talent pool available to it.

The big questions are; whether AC is satisfied with the current calibre of pilot applying? Based on the bios, I’d say probably? However, the question of whether the Jazz ‘flow through’ agreement can provide a big enough carrot as it stands to attract suitably qualified applicants to Jazz? There are only so many low-time pilots that Jazz can absorb with long term continuous high flow through to AC. That there are vacant Captains positions at Jazz at the start of a hiring wave indicates the thing are going to need to change.

[rudder]

However, the question of whether the Jazz ‘flow through’ agreement can provide a big enough carrot as it stands to attract suitably qualified applicants to Jazz? There are only so many low-time pilots that Jazz can absorb with long term continuous high flow through to AC. That there are vacant Captains positions at Jazz at the start of a hiring wave indicates the thing are going to need to change.

Yup. 109 to be exact. Almost all YYZ based. Mostly CRJ. Entirely driven by projected attrition to AC. No idea how that is going to play out as it looks out 12 months in to the future.

Bit of a chicken and the egg scenario - cancel or reduce AC flow would mean fewer applicants to Jazz. Pay bump for year 1-4 at Jazz would help but if a pilots ultimate goal is AC and Jazz turns out not to be the best route then pilot recruitment at Jazz would become even more challenging (other than the college candidates).

For a number of valid reasons it would be a good time for all 4 parties to dialogue. Likely a win-win-win-win to be had if the right perspective and expectations are brought to the discussion. If not, then status quo.

2023 will be an interesting year.

[schnitzel2k3]

However, the question of whether the Jazz ‘flow through’ agreement can provide a big enough carrot as it stands to attract suitably qualified applicants to Jazz? There are only so many low-time pilots that Jazz can absorb with long term continuous high flow through to AC. That there are vacant Captains positions at Jazz at the start of a hiring wave indicates the thing are going to need to change.

Yup. 109 to be exact. Almost all YYZ based. Mostly CRJ. Entirely driven by projected attrition to AC. No idea how that is going to play out as it looks out 12 months in to the future.

Bit of a chicken and the egg scenario - cancel or reduce AC flow would mean fewer applicants to Jazz. Pay bump for year 1-4 at Jazz would help but if a pilots ultimate goal is AC and Jazz turns out not to be the best route then pilot recruitment at Jazz would become even more challenging (other than the college candidates).

For a number of valid reasons it would be a good time for all 4 parties to dialogue. Likely a win-win-win-win to be had if the right perspective and expectations are brought to the discussion. If not, then status quo.

2023 will be an interesting year.

They need to break away from living under ACs payscale. I know being dirt cheap is a great way to keep AC management from kicking you to the curb, but being ACs only national feeder is a huge plus. They need to take a long hard look at the type of flying they do and think as if they were their own airline competing for talent.

The U.S feeders have made WAWCON progress in leaps and bounds, would be wonderful to see at Jazz too.

[rudder]

They need to break away from living under ACs payscale. I know being dirt cheap is a great way to keep AC management from kicking you to the curb, but being ACs only national feeder is a huge plus. They need to take a long hard look at the type of flying they do and think as if they were their own airline competing for talent.

The U.S feeders have made WAWCON progress in leaps and bounds, would be wonderful to see at Jazz too.

AC minimum starting pay for flow pilots should be Jazz year 1 CA pay. Jazz new-hire FO pay rates must go up by at least 25-40%.

AC should only take Jazz CA qualified pilots for flow purposes. Should have minimum 12 months left seat operational experience. AC seniority numbers should be reserved based on eligible PIT course if a Jazz pilot is still awaiting upgrade (excludes pilots that do not have ATPL) and/or has not completed 12 months in left seat, or if Jazz CA defers (max 24 month deferral), or is bypassed for operational reasons (max 12 month bypass).

AC could go out NOW and hire hundreds of OTS. Pick apart the competition flight decks.

Express operation protected. AC gets best candidates.

Will only happen if parties start a dialogue. Once again, if not it will be status quo.

[schnitzel2k3]

They need to break away from living under ACs payscale. I know being dirt cheap is a great way to keep AC management from kicking you to the curb, but being ACs only national feeder is a huge plus. They need to take a long hard look at the type of flying they do and think as if they were their own airline competing for talent.

The U.S feeders have made WAWCON progress in leaps and bounds, would be wonderful to see at Jazz too.

AC minimum starting pay for flow pilots should be Jazz year 1 CA pay. Jazz new-hire FO pay rates must go up by at least 25-40%.

AC should only take Jazz CA qualified pilots for flow purposes. Should have minimum 12 months left seat operational experience. AC seniority numbers should be reserved based on eligible PIT course if a Jazz pilot is still awaiting upgrade (excludes pilots that do not have ATPL) and/or has not completed 12 months in left seat, or if Jazz CA defers (max 24 month deferral), or is bypassed for operational reasons (max 12 month bypass).

AC could go out NOW and hire hundreds of OTS. Pick apart the competition flight decks.

Express operation protected. AC gets best candidates.

Will only happen if parties start a dialogue. Once again, if not it will be status quo.

It'd be nice to see some stability form at Jazz.

Bring starting pay north of their current Captain rates, Captains get closer to mainline narrowbody Captain rates to start.

Really give someone considering flying for Jazz or Air Canada something to think about. It would also put pressure on Air Canada to reconsider their current unattractive starting conditions.

Pair that with a well rounded pension, current benefits and decent staffing - Jazz would be a winner. They have the playback with the feeders down south, 2 of which made major gains for the pilot group.

Would love to see the Jazz group, and even though I throw some shade towards AC crew, it's all because I want to see y'all succeed. If you succeed the industry succeeds.

[Luigi Vampa]

They need to break away from living under ACs payscale. I know being dirt cheap is a great way to keep AC management from kicking you to the curb, but being ACs only national feeder is a huge plus. They need to take a long hard look at the type of flying they do and think as if they were their own airline competing for talent.

The U.S feeders have made WAWCON progress in leaps and bounds, would be wonderful to see at Jazz too.

AC minimum starting pay for flow pilots should be Jazz year 1 CA pay. Jazz new-hire FO pay rates must go up by at least 25-40%.

AC should only take Jazz CA qualified pilots for flow purposes. Should have minimum 12 months left seat operational experience. AC seniority numbers should be reserved based on eligible PIT course if a Jazz pilot is still awaiting upgrade (excludes pilots that do not have ATPL) and/or has not completed 12 months in left seat, or if Jazz CA defers (max 24 month deferral), or is bypassed for operational reasons (max 12 month bypass).

AC could go out NOW and hire hundreds of OTS. Pick apart the competition flight decks.

Express operation protected. AC gets best candidates.

Will only happen if parties start a dialogue. Once again, if not it will be status quo.

It'd be nice to see some stability form at Jazz.

How much more stable can you get than a 17 year contract?

[schnitzel2k3]

17 yr exclusive contract is great, but pilot desire to go to Jazz is waning from anything less than fairly low time crew, who's only goal is to transition asap to AC.

So long term experience is starting to be filled by gobs of inexperience.

[rudder]

17 yr exclusive contract is great, but pilot desire to go to Jazz is waning from anything less than fairly low time crew, who's only goal is to transition asap to AC.

So long term experience is starting to be filled by gobs of inexperience.

Ultimately, the best arrangement for Jazz pilots would be a staple (perpetual bidding rights at mainline. All new-hires BOTL behind the staple - effectively the WJ/Encore arrangement). That is not going to happen and does not appear to have worked well on that property.

So what it leaves is either do nothing (is that really the best outcome for all concerned?) or an update (improvement) on status quo that provides transparency, predictability, stability, and sensible gains for each of the 4 affected parties.

I am way past the outcome of this to matter in my career, but that should not stop those in charge from taking responsibility and looking beyond the 12 month horizon out to the longer term horizon.

AC knows it has to pay more. ACPA wants mainline pay improvements. Jazz know it has to pay more, particularly in year 1-4. AC needs 1000+ pilots over the next 24 months and probably up to 1500 over 48 months. Jazz needs pilots and they need pilots qualified (and experienced) to fill the left seat. Surely somewhere in all of these ‘needs’ there is a common sense solution?

No signs so far that this will progress beyond a web board discussion. That is a shame.

[lownslow]

AC should only…

Express operation protected. AC gets best candidates.

All flow should be scrapped. A tough pill to swallow for sure but better for us all in the long run.

[Fanblade]

AC should only…

Express operation protected. AC gets best candidates.

All flow should be scrapped. A tough pill to swallow for sure but better for us all in the long run.

That isn’t going to happen. Air Canada controls who they hire. There is a shortage and retention at feeders is an issue. Air Canada will continue to leverage a future job at AC to its own advantage. They will do so because it is in there best interest to do so.

They know this. Their current problem is that the inadequate pay at Jazz has stopped the bottom filling up with quickly upgradable pilots, which in turn has stopped the ability to flow to AC, which in turn makes Jazz even less attractive to new quickly upgradable applicants. Air Canada has lost, or is losing, its ability to leverage a future job as a retention mechanism.

The longer AC let’s this cycle continue the worse things will get. Eventually they will have to fix the pay issue. Although we very likely will see some repatriation of regional routes into Air Canada. Air Canada still needs a regional.

In the past Air Canada has used a job at AC as a carrot to extract lower wages. The US carriers did the same. Today’s world is different. They have to compete far more for pilots. They will have to pay. Flow through will be leveraged no longer for lower pay but rather retention.

In the past flow through was used to extract lower wages. It wasn’t good for anyone. So long as flow is used for retention in the future, rather than extracting lower wages, it becomes benign to the profession.

[Dockjock]

Management’s (collective) come-to-Jesus moment was always going to arrive at some point. That point was 2022 elsewhere, and looks to be 2023 or maybe 2024 in Canada. It’s an inevitability.