Why aren't Canadian pilots going on strike?

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Seems that everyone has forgotten what happened eleven years ago.

Or at least, nobody seems willing to mention it.

viewtopic.php?p=702011

That’s the problem with a government owning 6.4% of the organization. It’s a matter of national security (or so it can be argued) to keep the airline operational. That’s been the case since Air Canada Public Privatization Act in 1988 I think.

[Bingo Fuel]

Seems that everyone has forgotten what happened eleven years ago.

Or at least, nobody seems willing to mention it.

viewtopic.php?p=702011

That’s the problem with a government owning 6.4% of the organization. It’s a matter of national security (or so it can be argued) to keep the airline operational. That’s been the case since Air Canada Public Privatization Act in 1988 I think.

How did the government ownership stake have an impact on the 'Protecting Air Services Act'?

https://openparliament.ca/bills/41-1/C-33/?singlepage=1

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Seems that everyone has forgotten what happened eleven years ago.

Or at least, nobody seems willing to mention it.

viewtopic.php?p=702011

That’s the problem with a government owning 6.4% of the organization. It’s a matter of national security (or so it can be argued) to keep the airline operational. That’s been the case since Air Canada Public Privatization Act in 1988 I think.

How did the government ownership stake have an impact on the 'Protecting Air Services Act'?

https://openparliament.ca/bills/41-1/C-33/?singlepage=1

As far as I know it’s part of the Privatization Act of 1988, I can’t cite the info atm, but under certain circumstances of the deal they can step in to ensure the airline stays operational.

[CantTurfdaMurph]

There is a picket planned for September 1st at:

• Atlanta ATL
• Detroit DTW
• Las Angeles LAX
• Minneapolis MSP
• New York JFK
• Salt Lake City SLC
• Seattle SEA
• Boston BOS
• Orlando MCO
• Las Vegas LAS
• San Francisco SFO
• Chicago ORD
• Washington DC IAD
• Calgary YYC
• Toronto YYZ
• Vancouver YVR

Delta, Endeavor, JetBlue, Sun Country, Spirit, United, WestJet, and WestJet Encore pilots are invited to stand in unity with other ALPA pilots.

You won't be finding me picketing anywhere I can tell you that much. It's cottage season and us fat cats don't have time for peasant stuff!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

There is a picket planned for September 1st at:

• Atlanta ATL
• Detroit DTW
• Las Angeles LAX
• Minneapolis MSP
• New York JFK
• Salt Lake City SLC
• Seattle SEA
• Boston BOS
• Orlando MCO
• Las Vegas LAS
• San Francisco SFO
• Chicago ORD
• Washington DC IAD
• Calgary YYC
• Toronto YYZ
• Vancouver YVR

Delta, Endeavor, JetBlue, Sun Country, Spirit, United, WestJet, and WestJet Encore pilots are invited to stand in unity with other ALPA pilots.

You won't be finding me picketing anywhere I can tell you that much. It's cottage season and us fat cats don't have time for peasant stuff!

I agree, just walk away let the absence be the message lol

[Bug_Stomper_01]

There is a picket planned for September 1st at:

• Atlanta ATL
• Detroit DTW
• Las Angeles LAX
• Minneapolis MSP
• New York JFK
• Salt Lake City SLC
• Seattle SEA
• Boston BOS
• Orlando MCO
• Las Vegas LAS
• San Francisco SFO
• Chicago ORD
• Washington DC IAD
• Calgary YYC
• Toronto YYZ
• Vancouver YVR

Delta, Endeavor, JetBlue, Sun Country, Spirit, United, WestJet, and WestJet Encore pilots are invited to stand in unity with other ALPA pilots.

YYZ is doing a good job of picketing itself.

Currently?

[Bug_Stomper_01]

You can only strike in canada after a set process involving conciliation and something else I can’t remember but either way it has to be after a contract has expired. You can’t be half way through a contract and say F it I’m going on strike since the deal I agreed to “X” years ago isn’t good enough

Can’t and shouldn’t is a very fine line

[goingmissed]

You won't be finding me picketing anywhere I can tell you that much. It's cottage season and us fat cats don't have time for peasant stuff!

I agree, just walk away let the absence be the message lol

I'm glad that the two of you are comfortable and happy with the state of things. Enjoy your Thursday and don't forget a towel.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

You won't be finding me picketing anywhere I can tell you that much. It's cottage season and us fat cats don't have time for peasant stuff!

I agree, just walk away let the absence be the message lol

I'm glad that the two of you are comfortable and happy with the state of things. Enjoy your Thursday and don't forget a towel.

Walking away from work certainly doesn’t mean anyone is happy.

[goingmissed]

Walking away from work certainly doesn’t mean anyone is happy.

Choosing not to stand up against poor pay and working conditions implies that you are okay with the status quo. I support and respect your decision as we all come from different backgrounds and experiences and have different outlooks on life.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Walking away from work certainly doesn’t mean anyone is happy.

Choosing not to stand up against poor pay and working conditions implies that you are okay with the status quo. I support and respect your decision as we all come from different backgrounds and experiences and have different outlooks on life.

I’ve stood up to more BS in this industry than most. Let me rephrase that. “Refuse to work for crap conditions and wages by walking if conditions aren’t met”.
I have done that SEVERAL times in my career always for the betterment of the situation. Operators always assume that you need them, and with the pittance they’re tea-spooning out, for most workers that is the case, not me.
This industry is a white haired club of predators that have devised a parasitic relationship with the work force by keeping wages low enough and options scarce enough most have no alternative but stick it out, or, much more detrimental for most, re-educating and leaving the industry.
I’ve been diverse in my careers and don’t need their crap, I have lots of work. If employers offer reasonable work and pay scale after an ultimatum, I’ll stick around. Im batting around .300-.350 in those regards.
I hope this clarifies where I stand.

[YULCompanyManDan]

You wouldn't catch me dead striking or at a picket. Unions should be finding ways to help the company. More costing savings, equals more profits and everyone wins

We got many pilots making $200k plus in YUL plus all the 737 pilots that got paid to sit around. Things are great and nothing wrong with the status quo

[goingmissed]

You wouldn't catch me dead striking or at a picket. Unions should be finding ways to help the company. More costing savings, equals more profits and everyone wins

We got many pilots making $200k plus in YUL plus all the 737 pilots that got paid to sit around. Things are great and nothing wrong with the status quo

Sarcasm doesn't ring well over text based mediums.

[goldeneagle]

I took home $1168 on my last paycheck. That is standard pay and not lowered in any way (other than taxes). I get paid twice a month.

Did you know the rate when you took the job ? If you knew the rate it paid, and you accepted the offer, then by definition you are not underpaid.

[YULCompanyManDan]

You wouldn't catch me dead striking or at a picket. Unions should be finding ways to help the company. More costing savings, equals more profits and everyone wins

We got many pilots making $200k plus in YUL plus all the 737 pilots that got paid to sit around. Things are great and nothing wrong with the status quo

Sarcasm doesn't ring well over text based mediums.

Not being sarcastic Tabarnac

I would never stand up to the company.

[EPR]

From 10 years ago during collective bargaining. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... ining.html

[goingmissed]

I took home $1168 on my last paycheck. That is standard pay and not lowered in any way (other than taxes). I get paid twice a month.

Did you know the rate when you took the job ? If you knew the rate it paid, and you accepted the offer, then by definition you are not underpaid.

I strongly disagree with your opinion and your outlook. It seems that you are well paid and assume that you made the right choice and that everyone else has the exact same opportunities as you.

I knew the salary going in but I did not know that it would take five years to upgrade versus the two I was told. I did not know that inflation would bring the cost of living up by 15-20% while my salary would follow with a 4% bump in the same period. I moved up from my previous position, but that does not make this position the be all and end all.

[pitottubey]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

[pitottubey]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

I completely agree. Wages NEED to go up for our pilots and so they should. Canadians should strike, or grow a backbone, or idk what! Corporate will try anything else before raising wages to fix problems I'm sure.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I completely agree with goingmissed. Just because you accept a job offer doesn't mean you're not underpaid. And to reverse the logic, the only people who are underpaid didn't accept the job offer or the rate?? Makes no sense.

Definition: "People who are underpaid are not paid enough money for the job that they do."

And my 2cents frequently in life accepting that underpaying job pays off in the long run because it is better work experience. An unpaid internship can be an investment, whereas cleaning toilets for 25 bucks an hour wont get you far in the long run.

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

I completely agree. Wages NEED to go up for our pilots and so they should. Canadians should strike, or grow a backbone, or idk what! Corporate will try anything else before raising wages to fix problems I'm sure.

I wish it was as simple as that, I work pretty close to owners in Canada and I can assure you there’s no urgency to adjust wages. Aviation in Canada has always been an employers market, in the decades I’ve been in it I haven’t seen when it wasn’t. Even if everyone pulled blue flu cross Canada, there would be help pulled in internationally to scab in, the way our country is, it’s a very easy process.
As a group we’ve always been too disorganized and largely too weak to fight back. Individually, I among others in past years, have fought tooth and nail for change, I’ve won some and I’ve lost most.

The only way to change things in Canada for this industry is for massive changes in legislation to enforce correction to all the valid problems brought up in this forum. That will never happen.
I work mostly in the USA now, as do many of my colleagues, there’s a reason for that.

[702pipeliner]

Something has to change across the board, wages in Canada flying racket have been stagnant (mostly) since the late 80s

I completely agree. Wages NEED to go up for our pilots and so they should. Canadians should strike, or grow a backbone, or idk what! Corporate will try anything else before raising wages to fix problems I'm sure.

I wish it was as simple as that, I work pretty close to owners in Canada and I can assure you there’s no urgency to adjust wages. Aviation in Canada has always been an employers market, in the decades I’ve been in it I haven’t seen when it wasn’t. Even if everyone pulled blue flu cross Canada, there would be help pulled in internationally to scab in, the way our country is, it’s a very easy process.
As a group we’ve always been too disorganized and largely too weak to fight back. Individually, I among others in past years, have fought tooth and nail for change, I’ve won some and I’ve lost most.

The only way to change things in Canada for this industry is for massive changes in legislation to enforce correction to all the valid problems brought up in this forum. That will never happen.
I work mostly in the USA now, as do many of my colleagues, there’s a reason for that.

+1 to this.

Unfortunately legislation won't change.

[unionism101]

From 10 years ago during collective bargaining. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... ining.html

More modern link:

https://ehlaw.ca/supreme-court-constitu ... to-strike/

Pilots striking next time will be a different ballgame. The government has stayed out of labour action as of late

In what is being hailed as a “game-changer” in Canadian labour relations, a majority of the Supreme Court of Canada held that the right to strike is constitutionally protected under the freedom of association in s. 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Here’s something the younger generation should look up “tall poppy syndrome”. Canada is particularly bad for it, google it and think about where you are in this industry.

[goingmissed]

Here’s something the younger generation should look up “tall poppy syndrome”. Canada is particularly bad for it, google it and think about where you are in this industry.

Don't flatter yourself. We're not complaining about other people's success... we're complaining that we are professionals getting paid similar salaries to unskilled labour.