Becoming a Pilot after age 35 - is it worth it?

[jhill]

I am considering a career change to becoming a commercial pilot. I would love to be a pilot, however all of the talk on this site about how poorly new pilots/instructors are paid has got me worred. I am a 35 year old woman. I currently make $35,000.00 a year in a totally unrelated field.

If I follow my dream and spend all of my time and money on becoming a pilot, will I just be wasting my time? Will I be making next to nothing for years with no way to pay off my student loans? Would there be any light at the end of the tunnel? Is there a chance I could get a decent flying job before I hit retirement age?

What do you think.

Thanks.

[ZBB118.10]

It depends how you define "worth it". Expect a minimum of 3 years from the time you start training before you get anywhere near the figure you are making now, and expect a major capital outlay to be able to complete your training.

If your definition of "worth it" is going to work everyday and experience a combined feeling of exhiliration and fulfillment (which can also be interspersed with trepidation, anxiety, and occasionally just plain monotony!) then you have answered your own question.

I don't think your age is necessarily a factor to success - it depends on what area of aviation you wish to go into and where you see yourself going. There is the long, ongoing argument of older pilot v young fresh pilot, but both have their advantages depending on the type of operation.

You only live once - don't get to 50+ asking yourself "what if?" Give it a shot.

[Scuba_Steve]

I know lots of poeple your age or older who made a go of it and are doing fine. It sucks for the first few years, but if you work your a$$ off and get into an airplane as quickly as possible you'll make more than you are now.

Cheers

[snag]

I wouldn't do it. Not as a career. At that age, you're better off getting a job that makes you happy and pays well. Use the extra money to get your private pilots license, or if you get a very good job, buy your own plane.

Realisticaly, the reason why I say so is that the investment is huge. Do you have kids? a family? a mortgage? Realistically, if you become a full time aviation student, I would give it a year to two years for your Private, Commercial, Multiengine and IFR ratings. It does not happen overnight. Will you be working at the same time? Then it's about the first job. Are you willing to go work up in the boonies on the ramp for 2 years at minimum wage, doing A LOT of manual labour? Say you do, that puts you closer to 40 by the time you see your first airplane, and very sore. You could buy a rating on an airplane instead. As you saw in the posts it's not very popular. Once again, many more dollars, and you would be considered a scab in the industry. The only option I would consider is instructing. This way to start is going to cost some money for the rating, but often you can get a job close to a reasonably sized town, and age is not a factor. But you would be still putting around in a little 172 for a couple of years.

Long story short, don't expect a job on a 15 pax turboprop till you're closer to 40, that's when you will start making closer to what you are now. Airlines like young whipper-snappers with degrees, and the pay is getting lower every day. Lets say you get lucky and a few years after that you get a job with AC or Westjet. You're still looking at just over $35,000 a year to start.

Leave the Top Gun video on the shelf, take warning from the bitternes and frustration on this forum. IT IS TOUGH. Get a well paying job and fly as a hobby.

Just one opinion. In the end the choice is yours.

[Yoyoma]

Although I agree with snag's comments, I don't think it's that easy to get a "Well Paying" job. If you're 35 and making $35K, it is unlikely that you can just jump into a $80K position to fly on the side.

You can become a pilot. It's doable. Just ask yourself if the sacrifices are worth it. You might have to work the ramp, or maybe instruct for a couple of years. Both are hard work and will not guarantee a well payed position in the cockpit.

Are you married? Do you have a spouse who can support you? Can you move to where the jobs are? Do you have kids?

You need to examine your options and determine if recreational flying is not a better option.

Good Luck!

[Luscombe]

First of all, at 35 you're definitely not too old to start.

I am doing this pilot thing as a second career as well and never regret it. I already had my CPL because I was a skydiver who was called in to fly occasionally when we were without a pilot. At one time, all you needed was a PPL and 100 hrs PIC in order to fly jumpers, but that changed when TC thought it best to go with CPL's. I had absolutely no intention of flying for a living because I though getting the zillions of hours required to be the guy who gets to wash the airplanes for the guys with ga-zillions of hours was totally un-obtainable.

When I was 37 and was working in a horrible job in an office in Toronto, this changed. It was one of those offices with no windows, one huge room, tyranical boss yada yada.... in short I absolutely hated it and lived for the weekends where I could fly my jumper buddies. I made the big change. Mind you, this was after a long discussion with my wife who incidentally earned more than me (very important for a pilot starting out in the industry). We did the math and found out we could do it if we made some sacrifices.

I realized that with a CPL and a bunch of single-engine piston hours wouldn't get me a steady job, I needed to do my instructor rating. I kept my job until the rating was done, and I then gladly submitted my letter of resignation (second happiest day of my life..... wedding day was the happiest). I did get a temporary instructing job right away which helped and it's not been an easy road.

I refuse to sugar-coat things; it was one uphill struggle after setbacks and then some. I've had a lot of s***ty cards dealt to me over the years, lied to by companies, surprise lay-offs etc... but I still kept a positive attitude which has gotten us through the bad times.

This was all possible because of a couple of things. First of all, I have a spouse that is not employed in aviation at all. This way, she is not subject to the wild fluctuations of the industry and we can rely on her paycheque to get us through the bad times. Secondly, I never think of any job as a "sure thing". I am constantly looking toward the horizon to see where the industry is going and plan accordingly. Thirdly, we don't have any kids. If things go bad in the industry (and we have all seen that happen), we are the ones that have to do without; we don't have to sacrifice on a child's education. Fourthly, I am a real stubborn son-of-a-bitch and refuse to let things get me down. I suppose these are the reasons why I am still here.

I fly because I enjoy it. I may not fly the latest and greatest technology (King Air 200), I don't jet-set around tropical paradices (used to, but not anymore due to a previous lay-off), but I love going into work each and every day. Sure beats the crap out of working for the tyrant in the office in Toronto with no windows. If you're thinking that your place is in the left seat of the A340 earning a quarter of a million bucks a year and working about 6 days a month.... well starting out at 35 that just isn't going to happen unless you're really lucky. But if you want to make 35-40K about 5 years down the road, that is realistic. You have a couple of things working in your favour, namely maturity.

I say "go for it". If you want any more info, please PM me.

Cheers,

Luscombe

[Phlyer]

I kept my job until the rating was done, and I then gladly submitted my letter of resignation (second happiest day of my life..... wedding day was the happiest)

I had an office job just like that after UBC; I spent so much time looking in the yellow pages for flying companies that I realized I had to go for it. Like everyone it's been a real struggle and lately I am thinking of quitting more so that any other time. Like Luscome though I am too stubborn to pack it in, although being treated poorly is really getting old.
It is a long, hard road with many heartaches. If you really, really want it I'd say go for it. If you think it might be fun but you're not 100 percent dying to do it, then don't. There are many more that want it more and are willing to go that extra mile - it is extremely demanding, not to mention the enormous expence just getting the ratings in the first place.
Best of luck

[snag]

I don't think it's that easy to get a "Well Paying" job. If you're 35 and making $35K, it is unlikely that you can just jump into a $80K position to fly on the side.

Lets say it costs $30,000 to get the flying licenses, and 4 years to see a 'reasonable' job. How much time and money does it take to go through law school, get an engineering degree, go through film school, become an IFR ATC controller etc.? I even had an AME buddy that made less than $80K, had a nice life and a 172 on floats. The commitment has to be comparable, but in the end you still have an $80K job.

Once again guys, I think it CAN be done. Just want to ballance the opinions. It may indeed take the financial and psychological support of a spouse.

Good luck again with your decision.

[marktheone]

I would say that it boils down to chasing a "dream". If you really love the idea then do a fam flight at your local flying school. If you still love it then get a PPL. If you want to continue on, and likely you will, get your CPL. It's after the CPL that it starts to get hard. If you look at most large airlines job ads they say "hours commensurate with age". In other words at 35 you should have around 2500 or 3000 hours. I remember starting out I thought that didn't sound like too much. It is a HUGE number.

Bottom line, if you want to chase it then you gotta do it for your sanity.

[Springbok]

Dear Jhill,

The posts above offer some very sound advice which you should consider and adapt into your unique circumstances whatever they may be.

I say you go for it. Did you say 35 yrs of age. Damn it woman, you are a frigging spring chicken. You potentially have 35 yrs of flying ahead of you so get going already. Just be sure it is what you really want to do and that you are or become passionate about it. The money will always be a problem as the industry dictates and it will not make you a millionaire but then again, that is not why most of us fly.

Also, remember that becoming an airline pilot is not the alpha and the omega of commercial aviation. There are many other facets to commercial aviation such as bush flying, light charter work, cargo flying, medivac, Agspray, airships, paradropping, instruction, etc etc.

The reason I mention this is that I am 44 and am entering the Canadian Aviation scene as a new comer at my age. I certainly do not hold any aspirations to becoming an airline jock so I will settle for another branch of the aviation sector. I do not have exceptional high time and still have to add 65 hrs of the Canadian CPL course to validate a foreign licence and make me employable in Canada as an immigrant.

In reality, I am in a similar situation to you by having to start all over again in a new country. It will probably only take you less than 18 months to get to where I am now if you do it full time but the big advantage you have is the 10 year age difference. I say you go for it, it is cetainly not too late to make a start.

All the best and if you are in Southern Ontario, I might even see you at a flight school or two. I will be the gray haired dude scratching my head over TC exam questions and the CAR`s!

[wsguy]

I think that after you have read all of these posts you will find one of two things happens.
1) the posts scare you off and you decide against it....


or.....

2) You gonna do it anyways no matter what anybody says.

If you picked option #2... my condolences... you have the same sickness as the rest of us... which means you will be one of our colleages and will remain so for years to come.

I have always believed that as pilots here in Canada, most of us would be certified "incompetent by reason of insanity" if we were to explain how this industry works and how difficult it is to be paid a reasonable wage. I won't tell my MOT doctor how it really works out there .... he might have me assessed and the Physchiatrist would probably recommend that my medical and most of my other colleages out there in this industry should have our licenses revoked!


Best of luck... and enjoy the ride!

[trey kule]

Go for it!

[Meso]

I agree that you should have an aspiration for flying that will not go away(the dream). Your name is jhill not "over the hill", age has nothing to do with it as long as it is what you want. Also there are some decent companies out there, don't let that scare you off too much! Good luck, let us know your decision!

MH

[Doc]

Ah, the crossroads that life offers! Which fork in the road do you take? !Some good advice here. From both sides. This is NOT a "warm and fuzzy" way to earn a living....at least, not for many years. Years of very poor pay, that'll have you yanking your hair out, wondering what cheap drugs you're on! Great days, watching the sunrise, sunset, right out of your new "office" window.....when they both occur on the same day, it can wear a little thin!
Not an easy choice to make. Follow your heart, and no, 35 ain't too old. It may come in handy at times? First step....dont quit the day job until you have somewhere to go. Get the PPL and take stock. Little steps.
Need help?.......there's lots right here.
G'luck

[nzkiwi]

JHill, I don't think it's too late, it all depends on you, how much do you really want to do this? A while ago I was searching the web and found this website about a guy who did a career change and was also in his mid 30's, hope it helps one way or the other.

http://www.oneflyingleap.com/

[frog]

I made the big leap at 34, I am 41 today and I am done paying my due...so I would say, yes it is doable!

[charlie_g]

Speaking as one who started into flying as a second career and then abandoned it after instructing for a while, I would say do not do it unless you have an extreme love of flying.

And when I say a love of flying, I don't mean that you may really like flying a lot: you must LOVE IT in order to make a career out of it, in my opinion. You must love it to the point where there's literally nothing you'd rather be doing, even if it is to the point of living like a starving student for years on end.

It is an incredibly long, expensive road to get to the point in the business where your talents are appreciated, and to the point where the pay reflects that.

In the meantime, count on moving often and/or changing companies often, with all the associated impact on your life that may have.

Heed the warning issued by those who have worked at the Skywards and JetsGos of the world, who have watched training bonds disappear into thin air. Don't ignore those who spent many, many months (or years) vacuuming planes on a midnight shift or tossing bags in -30 weather just to be in line for a low-paying right-seat job. And that's after you've already laid out $40,000 for training costs.

For most people I think flying makes a really neat hobby, but a pretty unrealistic career.

My two cents.

[Chantal]

Happy Birthday frog!

[The Hammer]

Do you like Kraft dinner a lot??? If yes than go for it !!!!

[fanspeed]

I would never tell anyone not to do it. SO go for it. There is no life like it-rewards outweigh the hardships-even if you don't ever get paid tons of money to do it.

[just clearing the trees]

Get the best paying job you can in your field, buy a Supercub and fly whenever you feel like it, just for the sheer enjoyment of it.

There are alot of really boring flying jobs out there, unless you're the type that gets a hard-on for EFIS and ref speeds and whatever else it is that aviation nerds like (and there are plenty of them out there.) You know the type, the guys that sit in the bars and talk about how wicked cool it was when they were shooting the NDB Alpha for runway 26 the other day and when they broke out they were like, 20 degrees off the runway and they had to use like, 30 degrees angle of bank to get on the centreline. You know, all that wicked exciting stuff. (Insert Wayne's World voice for preceding 2 sentences.) Anyway, all that to say that if you're looking for an exciting change, flying can be that for you, but perhaps not in the doses that you would expect (depending on what you're doing of course.) Someone put it best when they said that a flying career is essentially extended periods of boredom punctuated by moments of extreme terror.

I'm not saying that it would be a bad choice by any means and I think that after achieving your necessary licenses and ratings within 5 years you should be doing just fine. But I am saying that you should think about the financial, physical, mental and emotional costs aviation will make you pay to get there. Aviation can be a cruel mistress. Don't think that people on this forum are over-stating the hardships.

Think about why you want a career change. Do you hate your job? If yes, then sure, go for it. You've got nothing to lose in that case, and it would probably be well worth it. If you really want it, you're not too old to succeed. Your success will not be determined by your age, rather by your drive (and in the early stages of your career, being able to take alot of shit.)

But if you enjoy what you are doing now, enough so that you could be happy continuing to do it, then just get the best paying job you can in your field, buy a Supercub and fly whenever you feel like it, just for the sheer enjoyment of it. I consider myself to be a lucky pilot, in that I have a job in aviation that I consider to be one of the somewhat exciting ones, most days. I think I have the best job in the world. But still, flying for a living is not the be all and end all for me. If I was doing something else, I would still do plenty of flying on my own time. After all, the most enjoyable flights are the ones where you're off the clock, just flying for the sake of being in the air.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you find satisfaction and enjoyment in whatever you chose.

[joubahop]

Money is not everything! As long as you are happy, even with a very little income...
Life is about exploring and living adventures. If aviation is really your passion, then go for it.
The only thing to keep in mind is that aviation is much more than getting a job for an airline. As someone mentioned it in another posting, you are more likely to do a lot of instruction or become a charter pilot for a small company for example. It is not a glamourous industry. And above all other considerations, you will (99% chances) have to move, and probably to a remote place where you don't know anyone. But again, if you like aviation, you must like adventure so that could appeal to you.

Good luck and have fun with your new carrer!

[jhill]

Thank you everyone for all your input. For those of you who asked, I am married, but have no children so I don't have to worry about them starving the first few years if I do become a pilot. Unfortunately, my husband is not in a position to support both of us while I go to school. We would probably have to sell our house and use the small amount of equity in that to cover the costs.

Anyway, to Springbok who said

Did you say 35 yrs of age. Damn it woman, you are a frigging spring chicken.

I thank you from the bottom of my young little heart.

And to Luscombe who said

I kept my job until the rating was done, and I then gladly submitted my letter of resignation (second happiest day of my life..... wedding day was the happiest).

That is one of the sweetest things I have ever heard.

Anyway, to sum up, my husband and I are in the process of discussing if it is going to be worth it to us, especially because of the fact that we will have to sell our house. If I were still in my early 20's and single I would not hesitate, but my biggest dilema is the thought of bringing my husband down with me. So, I'm just going to have to think long and hard about it.

Anyway, thanks again for all the advice!

[Doc]

You're going to sell your home to learn to fly??? Come back to earth, and give your head a shake! I can't see any "plus" side to a move like that!

[Cat Driver]

Good God jhill before you sell your house maybe you should re think becoming a commercial pilot.

If you can't afford to buy the time by the hour for ch.ist sakes don't give up your house just to fly for nothing...because that is about what you will make when you first start.

Cat