Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

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RLK
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by RLK »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:07 pm
RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:27 pm
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm

Yes but you can rely on that schedule and elect to work more if you want. It’s mandatory to work whatever is required in aviation to get the aircraft serviceable. Lots of travel and you’ll be up north for a few years to get started feeding the flys. Usually these ass hats pay a day rate while you work 16 hours.
It’s criminal man do your research before you dive into this “industry” if you can call it that. It’s just a small group of evil crooked jerks laundering money with aircraft while beating up on the aircrew, competing amongst eachother how much they can get away with by breaking basic laws of humanity and common decency.

Anyone I explain this industry to disbelieves it until they actually do it. I have had former trainees come to me years later apologizing for not listening (even tho it’s them I should apologize to for not trying harder to keep them away).

This is about the worst time to get in but I’m sure next year will be even worse. I hope you’re just doing this for the experience and not a manageable means of making a living. There is that old term “AIDS” in this industry - “Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome”. And almost everyone I know has it. The ONLY redeeming quality is the craft you will learn that takes years and years to be well rounded in. MRO’s are best for that but they know what they can get away with and pay dogsh1t too.

I digress, it’s a screwed up insane industry with almost no government and general population supporting us which further fuels the low pay and horrible working conditions. You’ve been warned, it’s a gong show and you better be ready to sacrifice a ton of time, your families well being and your finances for years.
Every single career has goods and bads, there is no such thing as perfect. My wife is a registered nurse, she worked shift work for many years. We would come home and tell each other about our day. I would tell her how this car had an f-ed transmission and this other car had an offline body can network. Then she would tell me that two patients died on her shift and the families were devastated. It would make my problems feel so small. But then another day she would tell me that she gave a person CRP and they survived and she felt like a hero.
Every job has goods and bads, you decide on what you focus on and you alone are responsible for your own attitude. I have had a very fulfilling career fixing cars, but I have done it for 20 years and kinda just want to try something new. I want to start at the bottom sweeping floors, that is how you learn. If you feel that the pay for a certain job is too low for you, don't apply. I see automotive jobs every day that I feel have too low of a wage, if some sucker takes it, so what. You get what you pay for.
I'm sorry that you have not been satisfied with your career choice, but you really only have yourself to blame for that. If you are not happy, change it.

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. I’ve had an awesome career in aviation, I’m very lucky to have the training and experienced I got while that was offered (which isn’t so easily anymore). Canada however is in the toilet, I work in the states primarily now and some for some select customers in Canada ON MY TERMS. Do what you will, you’ve been warned, just don’t expect to have a comfortable life doing this here (fixed wing or rotary). Experienced guys fixing and flying are leaving the country and the industry all together.
Automotive hit the fan about 20 years ago for menu pricing and making the flat rate so skinny, sorry you didn’t enjoy your career in automotive but that’s a choice you made. I can weigh both, I’ve been involved in both (more heavy duty that pays more but also have the 310s from many moons ago). Just don’t let aerosexuality cloud your judgement.
I'm not set on going into aviation. I'm kinda at a fork in the road in my career. My problem is automotives doesn't offer a good career path. I absolutely do not want to run my own shop. I am a technical person, not a salesman and dislike the service advisor role. I do really enjoy teaching, if I stick in automotives I will turn wrenches for a few more years then teach at SAIT. But I basically have nowhere else to grow.
From following aircraft jobs for the last bunch of years. It appears that there are other roles that AME'S can go into. Like working for TC, maintenance planning or management. Unless I'm wrong? I would like to know, I don't want to be 60 years old turning bolts. I'm looking at going to WJ/AC or similar, I like how they have pension/retirement plans. Tool allowances, structured wages and a bunch of other stuff the automotive industry does not offer. Yes, pounding nights for a decade is going to suck, but I'm trying to look into the future and not drive looking down the hood.
I have completed the ICS course, it will take me about $1000-$2000 to re-tool. I'm a tenacious learner and will crush the tech exams. What do I have to loose? If it sucks, I will just go back to fixing cars.

Am I off base on anything here? I actually really do want to know, I have about 5 years into research and preparing and hearing the ugly is part of it.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:34 pm
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:07 pm
RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:27 pm
Every single career has goods and bads, there is no such thing as perfect. My wife is a registered nurse, she worked shift work for many years. We would come home and tell each other about our day. I would tell her how this car had an f-ed transmission and this other car had an offline body can network. Then she would tell me that two patients died on her shift and the families were devastated. It would make my problems feel so small. But then another day she would tell me that she gave a person CRP and they survived and she felt like a hero.
Every job has goods and bads, you decide on what you focus on and you alone are responsible for your own attitude. I have had a very fulfilling career fixing cars, but I have done it for 20 years and kinda just want to try something new. I want to start at the bottom sweeping floors, that is how you learn. If you feel that the pay for a certain job is too low for you, don't apply. I see automotive jobs every day that I feel have too low of a wage, if some sucker takes it, so what. You get what you pay for.
I'm sorry that you have not been satisfied with your career choice, but you really only have yourself to blame for that. If you are not happy, change it.

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. I’ve had an awesome career in aviation, I’m very lucky to have the training and experienced I got while that was offered (which isn’t so easily anymore). Canada however is in the toilet, I work in the states primarily now and some for some select customers in Canada ON MY TERMS. Do what you will, you’ve been warned, just don’t expect to have a comfortable life doing this here (fixed wing or rotary). Experienced guys fixing and flying are leaving the country and the industry all together.
Automotive hit the fan about 20 years ago for menu pricing and making the flat rate so skinny, sorry you didn’t enjoy your career in automotive but that’s a choice you made. I can weigh both, I’ve been involved in both (more heavy duty that pays more but also have the 310s from many moons ago). Just don’t let aerosexuality cloud your judgement.
I'm not set on going into aviation. I'm kinda at a fork in the road in my career. My problem is automotives doesn't offer a good career path. I absolutely do not want to run my own shop. I am a technical person, not a salesman and dislike the service advisor role. I do really enjoy teaching, if I stick in automotives I will turn wrenches for a few more years then teach at SAIT. But I basically have nowhere else to grow.
From following aircraft jobs for the last bunch of years. It appears that there are other roles that AME'S can go into. Like working for TC, maintenance planning or management. Unless I'm wrong? I would like to know, I don't want to be 60 years old turning bolts. I'm looking at going to WJ/AC or similar, I like how they have pension/retirement plans. Tool allowances, structured wages and a bunch of other stuff the automotive industry does not offer. Yes, pounding nights for a decade is going to suck, but I'm trying to look into the future and not drive looking down the hood.
I have completed the ICS course, it will take me about $1000-$2000 to re-tool. I'm a tenacious learner and will crush the tech exams. What do I have to loose? If it sucks, I will just go back to fixing cars.

Am I off base on anything here? I actually really do want to know, I have about 5 years into research and preparing and hearing the ugly is part of it.
Absolutely hearing you man, you’ve got the ICS done that’s a start but you’ll have to fulfill CAR566 requirements of hands on which means roughly 4 years of apprenticeship if memory serves. That’s a chunk, and the industry is very soft. Have you considered heavy duty? You can get 2 of the four years accredited from what Ive witnessed (4000 of the 8000hrs). There are some very high paying and rewarding jobs out there and way more options for schedule benefits and way more pay this route. Maybe solar turbine would be an option too. Unless I’m completely out to lunch the pay scale at WJ and AC suck ass and you could get better pay and benefits from cummins or finning. I don’t know you but I can assure you the abuse in this industry is like none other. I’d hate to see someone else waste their life and talent doing this garbage when they can have a better life elsewhere. You should stop in your local AIT office and have this discussion about trade equivelancy and your additional training from ICS on top of your current license. You may be a short year out from a heavy duty license and far better life than aviation affords.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

all_ramped_up wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:45 pm
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pmI digress, it’s a screwed up insane industry with almost no government and general population supporting us which further fuels the low pay and horrible working conditions. You’ve been warned, it’s a gong show and you better be ready to sacrifice a ton of time, your families well being and your finances for years.
This is a pretty accurate statement. At least in my experience so far.
I take Zero pleasure in saying that but it is the truth.
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RLK
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by RLK »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:06 pm
RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:34 pm [quote=Bug_Stomper_01
Absolutely hearing you man, you’ve got the ICS done that’s a start but you’ll have to fulfill CAR566 requirements of hands on which means roughly 4 years of apprenticeship if memory serves. That’s a chunk, and the industry is very soft. Have you considered heavy duty? You can get 2 of the four years accredited from what Ive witnessed (4000 of the 8000hrs). There are some very high paying and rewarding jobs out there and way more options for schedule benefits and way more pay this route. Maybe solar turbine would be an option too. Unless I’m completely out to lunch the pay scale at WJ and AC suck ass and you could get better pay and benefits from cummins or finning. I don’t know you but I can assure you the abuse in this industry is like none other. I’d hate to see someone else waste their life and talent doing this garbage when they can have a better life elsewhere. You should stop in your local AIT office and have this discussion about trade equivelancy and your additional training from ICS on top of your current license. You may be a short year out from a heavy duty license and far better life than aviation affords.
You have to like what you fix. I specialize in Porsche's because I like them. A big ass mud covered dump truck isn't my thing. But I think a 787 is.
Part of my current job is helping to admister an apprenticeship program. I think being the student might be a nice change for a while. I don't care about hours or how long it takes. I will be learning a new craft. Takes as long as it takes.
Can you give me examples or some stories about some of these work place atrocious that take place. What is some of the bad shit your boss has done to you?
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:06 pm
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:06 pm
RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:34 pm [quote=Bug_Stomper_01
Absolutely hearing you man, you’ve got the ICS done that’s a start but you’ll have to fulfill CAR566 requirements of hands on which means roughly 4 years of apprenticeship if memory serves. That’s a chunk, and the industry is very soft. Have you considered heavy duty? You can get 2 of the four years accredited from what Ive witnessed (4000 of the 8000hrs). There are some very high paying and rewarding jobs out there and way more options for schedule benefits and way more pay this route. Maybe solar turbine would be an option too. Unless I’m completely out to lunch the pay scale at WJ and AC suck ass and you could get better pay and benefits from cummins or finning. I don’t know you but I can assure you the abuse in this industry is like none other. I’d hate to see someone else waste their life and talent doing this garbage when they can have a better life elsewhere. You should stop in your local AIT office and have this discussion about trade equivelancy and your additional training from ICS on top of your current license. You may be a short year out from a heavy duty license and far better life than aviation affords.
You have to like what you fix. I specialize in Porsche's because I like them. A big ass mud covered dump truck isn't my thing. But I think a 787 is.
Part of my current job is helping to admister an apprenticeship program. I think being the student might be a nice change for a while. I don't care about hours or how long it takes. I will be learning a new craft. Takes as long as it takes.
Can you give me examples or some stories about some of these work place atrocious that take place. What is some of the bad shit your boss has done to you?
Working on airline M2 equipment isn’t like it was 40 years ago. There’s very little you’re allowed to dive deep in anymore most things are LRU’s now. It’s not really a satisfying job from what I’ve seen, don’t even do any engine work hardly anymore. Panels off and on is most of what that work consists of. And how long do you have?

Lol the atrocities include but are not limited to;

•working unscheduled weekends, holidays, nights and overtime at every employer I’ve ever had in Canada my entire career there.

•habitual broken schedules making it impossible to plan your life

•Taking on a job with bad pay based on the false promise of a pay scale adjustment for maintenance staff in the “near future” (years later, never happened, it was a predatory tactic)

•improper or outright lack of tools forcing us to “make do”

•working in cruddy poorly lit hangars you literally need a pit lamp to see in

•lack of personnel for support during scheduled heavy maintenance thus prompting mandatory overtime, nights and weekend work (one guy working 120% is cheaper than two).

•working in some of the most inhospitable environments known to man and pressured to push scheduled maintenance / employee schedules to save the company money on air fare / aircraft downtime, maintenance cost repeatedly “while you’re there” and “can you do us a favour” is something I’ve had a gut full of…

•pushback from owners / management on legitimate maintenance required to the point of either you just shut up and whip it off or find another job just to save some rich jerk a buck on the back of your license / liability.

•the all round low pay in the last 15 years that seems to be in an exponential downward spiral with no correction in sight (The TFW program is increasingly being abused).

•hours of averaging (look that crap up, don’t think most air carriers apply but SOME get approved nonetheless through their interpretation of the law / application wording). For the most part we are not seasonal workers, and no one is enforcing the law with these employers.

•the almost complete lack of any kind of decent benefits / RSP contributions offered these days

•using training bonds to leverage employees beyond reasonable workload / maintenance practices / expectations (never happened to me, I’ve never signed one for a type course, but I’ve witnessed some real screw jobs with some guys)
*NEVER sign a training bond, it is almost always used as leverage, and 100% a predatory tactic used by bad employers*

•crap lifestyle the first several years living up north for garbage pay to gain experience (this is standard in Canada, experience is an expensive currency here)

•the almost certain fact you will go through a divorce

•the career long low compensation compared to almost any other trades (there’s guys on here with tons of endorsements and experience that have capped at 42/hr after nearly 40 years in the trade)

•Constant lies from management to the point everyone expects to get screwed over one way or another. It’s so expected in fact, no one is surprised when it happens anymore, honesty is a rarity it seems.

•toxic work environments devised by management pitting AME’s against each-other to increase production, decrease cost, and in their little minds “set a stern precedent” (tall poppy syndrome and a dangling carrot does this nicely) X management theory is alive and well in Canadian aviation, it’s disgusting.

•I can keep going but that’s a good start, anyone else reading this please add to the list…
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RLK
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by RLK »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:47 am
RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:06 pm [quote=Bug_Stomper_01 post_id=1210304
You have to like what you fix. I specialize in Porsche's because I like them. A big ass mud covered dump truck isn't my thing. But I think a 787 is.
Part of my current job is helping to admister an apprenticeship program. I think being the student might be a nice change for a while. I don't care about hours or how long it takes. I will be learning a new craft. Takes as long as it takes.
Can you give me examples or some stories about some of these work place atrocious that take place. What is some of the bad shit your boss has done to you?
Working on airline M2 equipment isn’t like it was 40 years ago. There’s very little you’re allowed to dive deep in anymore most things are LRU’s now. It’s not really a satisfying job from what I’ve seen, don’t even do any engine work hardly anymore. Panels off and on is most of what that work consists of. And how long do you have?

About 30 years before I want to retire.

Lol the atrocities include but are not limited to;

•working unscheduled weekends, holidays, nights and overtime at every employer I’ve ever had in Canada my entire career there.

I work Monday to Friday, but sometimes I will be asked to come in on a Saturday to catch up. Or will have to stay late to finish a vehicle that has to go. So I would be working a normal day/night shift work type schedule and be asked to come in here and there.


•habitual broken schedules making it impossible to plan your life

From seeing my wife do shift work, I agree with this.

•Taking on a job with bad pay based on the false promise of a pay scale adjustment for maintenance staff in the “near future” (years later, never happened, it was a predatory tactic)

Don't ever take anyone's word for anything, if it is not in writing is doesn't exist.

•improper or outright lack of tools forcing us to “make do”

This is literally every single day for me, aircraft at least has some enforcement and rules on this. I build special tools and work around things on a daily basis.

•working in cruddy poorly lit hangars you literally need a pit lamp to see in

Don't work for a shitty shop. I have actually seen automotive shops with dirt floors.

•lack of personnel for support during scheduled heavy maintenance thus prompting mandatory overtime, nights and weekend work (one guy working 120% is cheaper than two).

The automotive industry has had a lack of technicians for years, one tech doing the work of many is the norm. And greed from management also plays into this.

•working in some of the most inhospitable environments known to man and pressured to push scheduled maintenance / employee schedules to save the company money on air fare / aircraft downtime, maintenance cost repeatedly “while you’re there” and “can you do us a favour” is something I’ve had a gut full of…

When you are on flat rate "can you do me a favor" means that you will be working for free.

•pushback from owners / management on legitimate maintenance required to the point of either you just shut up and whip it off or find another job just to save some rich jerk a buck on the back of your license / liability.

I did not re-new my out of province inspection license because of this. If you are being forced into something you don't like, pack your shit up and leave.

•the all round low pay in the last 15 years that seems to be in an exponential downward spiral with no correction in sight (The TFW program is increasingly being abused).

After seeing some airlines pay schedules, I will make more per hour than I do fixing cars.

•hours of averaging (look that crap up, don’t think most air carriers apply but SOME get approved nonetheless through their interpretation of the law / application wording). For the most part we are not seasonal workers, and no one is enforcing the law with these employers.

I have never heard of this, I'm going to look into it.

•the almost complete lack of any kind of decent benefits / RSP contributions offered these days

WJ/AC seem to offer a decent stuff, at least from what I have read from their job ads. If you ask a automotive shop owner about RRSP contributions, you are going to get a blank stare.

•using training bonds to leverage employees beyond reasonable workload / maintenance practices / expectations (never happened to me, I’ve never signed one for a type course, but I’ve witnessed some real screw jobs with some guys)
*NEVER sign a training bond, it is almost always used as leverage, and 100% a predatory tactic used by bad employers*

I would never sign something like that.

•crap lifestyle the first several years living up north for garbage pay to gain experience (this is standard in Canada, experience is an expensive currency here)

I kinda feel that living up north or out in the middle of nowhere is a choice. I have seen some decent looking jobs that are a half hour drive from my house.

•the almost certain fact you will go through a divorce

My wife is more important to me than my job. If my employer requires me to change that, they will be replacing me.

•the career long low compensation compared to almost any other trades (there’s guys on here with tons of endorsements and experience that have capped at 42/hr after nearly 40 years in the trade)

$42/hr is still a pay raise for me.

•Constant lies from management to the point everyone expects to get screwed over one way or another. It’s so expected in fact, no one is surprised when it happens anymore, honesty is a rarity it seems.

This happens everywhere.

•toxic work environments devised by management pitting AME’s against each-other to increase production, decrease cost, and in their little minds “set a stern precedent” (tall poppy syndrome and a dangling carrot does this nicely) X management theory is alive and well in Canadian aviation, it’s disgusting.

This is every day in the automotive world. My proficiency numbers get posted every day for all to see. Every year I get sat down and shown how much I produced and where I stack up against my co-workers.


•I can keep going but that’s a good start, anyone else reading this please add to the list…
[/quote]

All in all, I think the worst part for me is the shift work. I can do night shift, I just don't know if I want to. Like I said before every job has goods and bads. What are some of the good things? Experiences? Things learned? Things that you could not have gained anywhere else?
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:54 am
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:47 am
RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:06 pm [quote=Bug_Stomper_01 post_id=1210304
You have to like what you fix. I specialize in Porsche's because I like them. A big ass mud covered dump truck isn't my thing. But I think a 787 is.
Part of my current job is helping to admister an apprenticeship program. I think being the student might be a nice change for a while. I don't care about hours or how long it takes. I will be learning a new craft. Takes as long as it takes.
Can you give me examples or some stories about some of these work place atrocious that take place. What is some of the bad shit your boss has done to you?
Working on airline M2 equipment isn’t like it was 40 years ago. There’s very little you’re allowed to dive deep in anymore most things are LRU’s now. It’s not really a satisfying job from what I’ve seen, don’t even do any engine work hardly anymore. Panels off and on is most of what that work consists of. And how long do you have?

About 30 years before I want to retire.

Lol the atrocities include but are not limited to;

•working unscheduled weekends, holidays, nights and overtime at every employer I’ve ever had in Canada my entire career there.

I work Monday to Friday, but sometimes I will be asked to come in on a Saturday to catch up. Or will have to stay late to finish a vehicle that has to go. So I would be working a normal day/night shift work type schedule and be asked to come in here and there.


•habitual broken schedules making it impossible to plan your life

From seeing my wife do shift work, I agree with this.

•Taking on a job with bad pay based on the false promise of a pay scale adjustment for maintenance staff in the “near future” (years later, never happened, it was a predatory tactic)

Don't ever take anyone's word for anything, if it is not in writing is doesn't exist.

•improper or outright lack of tools forcing us to “make do”

This is literally every single day for me, aircraft at least has some enforcement and rules on this. I build special tools and work around things on a daily basis.

•working in cruddy poorly lit hangars you literally need a pit lamp to see in

Don't work for a shitty shop. I have actually seen automotive shops with dirt floors.

•lack of personnel for support during scheduled heavy maintenance thus prompting mandatory overtime, nights and weekend work (one guy working 120% is cheaper than two).

The automotive industry has had a lack of technicians for years, one tech doing the work of many is the norm. And greed from management also plays into this.

•working in some of the most inhospitable environments known to man and pressured to push scheduled maintenance / employee schedules to save the company money on air fare / aircraft downtime, maintenance cost repeatedly “while you’re there” and “can you do us a favour” is something I’ve had a gut full of…

When you are on flat rate "can you do me a favor" means that you will be working for free.

•pushback from owners / management on legitimate maintenance required to the point of either you just shut up and whip it off or find another job just to save some rich jerk a buck on the back of your license / liability.

I did not re-new my out of province inspection license because of this. If you are being forced into something you don't like, pack your shit up and leave.

•the all round low pay in the last 15 years that seems to be in an exponential downward spiral with no correction in sight (The TFW program is increasingly being abused).

After seeing some airlines pay schedules, I will make more per hour than I do fixing cars.

•hours of averaging (look that crap up, don’t think most air carriers apply but SOME get approved nonetheless through their interpretation of the law / application wording). For the most part we are not seasonal workers, and no one is enforcing the law with these employers.

I have never heard of this, I'm going to look into it.

•the almost complete lack of any kind of decent benefits / RSP contributions offered these days

WJ/AC seem to offer a decent stuff, at least from what I have read from their job ads. If you ask a automotive shop owner about RRSP contributions, you are going to get a blank stare.

•using training bonds to leverage employees beyond reasonable workload / maintenance practices / expectations (never happened to me, I’ve never signed one for a type course, but I’ve witnessed some real screw jobs with some guys)
*NEVER sign a training bond, it is almost always used as leverage, and 100% a predatory tactic used by bad employers*

I would never sign something like that.

•crap lifestyle the first several years living up north for garbage pay to gain experience (this is standard in Canada, experience is an expensive currency here)

I kinda feel that living up north or out in the middle of nowhere is a choice. I have seen some decent looking jobs that are a half hour drive from my house.

•the almost certain fact you will go through a divorce

My wife is more important to me than my job. If my employer requires me to change that, they will be replacing me.

•the career long low compensation compared to almost any other trades (there’s guys on here with tons of endorsements and experience that have capped at 42/hr after nearly 40 years in the trade)

$42/hr is still a pay raise for me.

•Constant lies from management to the point everyone expects to get screwed over one way or another. It’s so expected in fact, no one is surprised when it happens anymore, honesty is a rarity it seems.

This happens everywhere.

•toxic work environments devised by management pitting AME’s against each-other to increase production, decrease cost, and in their little minds “set a stern precedent” (tall poppy syndrome and a dangling carrot does this nicely) X management theory is alive and well in Canadian aviation, it’s disgusting.

This is every day in the automotive world. My proficiency numbers get posted every day for all to see. Every year I get sat down and shown how much I produced and where I stack up against my co-workers.


•I can keep going but that’s a good start, anyone else reading this please add to the list…
All in all, I think the worst part for me is the shift work. I can do night shift, I just don't know if I want to. Like I said before every job has goods and bads. What are some of the good things? Experiences? Things learned? Things that you could not have gained anywhere else?
[/quote]

The trade itself is awesome, I like the diversity (in helicopters) engine, driveline, structural, avionics, component work, vibration analysis. I enjoy it all, I’ve worked very hard to get to the level and amount of training / knowledge I’m at, and it came at a huge sacrificial price.

It’s the other BS that buries the trade, the negatives far outweigh the positives in Canada these days. The trade itself im in is an awesome one, it’s the state of the industry I hate.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:54 am
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:47 am
RLK wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:06 pm [quote=Bug_Stomper_01 post_id=1210304
You have to like what you fix. I specialize in Porsche's because I like them. A big ass mud covered dump truck isn't my thing. But I think a 787 is.
Part of my current job is helping to admister an apprenticeship program. I think being the student might be a nice change for a while. I don't care about hours or how long it takes. I will be learning a new craft. Takes as long as it takes.
Can you give me examples or some stories about some of these work place atrocious that take place. What is some of the bad shit your boss has done to you?
Working on airline M2 equipment isn’t like it was 40 years ago. There’s very little you’re allowed to dive deep in anymore most things are LRU’s now. It’s not really a satisfying job from what I’ve seen, don’t even do any engine work hardly anymore. Panels off and on is most of what that work consists of. And how long do you have?

About 30 years before I want to retire.

Lol the atrocities include but are not limited to;

•working unscheduled weekends, holidays, nights and overtime at every employer I’ve ever had in Canada my entire career there.

I work Monday to Friday, but sometimes I will be asked to come in on a Saturday to catch up. Or will have to stay late to finish a vehicle that has to go. So I would be working a normal day/night shift work type schedule and be asked to come in here and there.


•habitual broken schedules making it impossible to plan your life

From seeing my wife do shift work, I agree with this.

•Taking on a job with bad pay based on the false promise of a pay scale adjustment for maintenance staff in the “near future” (years later, never happened, it was a predatory tactic)

Don't ever take anyone's word for anything, if it is not in writing is doesn't exist.

~That was a lesson I never forgot, unfortunately no one will put their promises in writing anymore

•improper or outright lack of tools forcing us to “make do”

This is literally every single day for me, aircraft at least has some enforcement and rules on this. I build special tools and work around things on a daily basis.
~ this is more of a flight safety concern than automotive tooling.
You mess up because you didn’t follow the manual you could be in court for years or jail depending on what happens.

•working in cruddy poorly lit hangars you literally need a pit lamp to see in

Don't work for a shitty shop. I have actually seen automotive shops with dirt floors.
~ easier said than done, most hangars in Canada are garbage

•lack of personnel for support during scheduled heavy maintenance thus prompting mandatory overtime, nights and weekend work (one guy working 120% is cheaper than two).

The automotive industry has had a lack of technicians for years, one tech doing the work of many is the norm. And greed from management also plays into this.

~ again a safety concern, “human factors”. Working those hours on live aircraft is a risk.

•working in some of the most inhospitable environments known to man and pressured to push scheduled maintenance / employee schedules to save the company money on air fare / aircraft downtime, maintenance cost repeatedly “while you’re there” and “can you do us a favour” is something I’ve had a gut full of…

When you are on flat rate "can you do me a favor" means that you will be working for free.

~ correct, lots of operators pay a “day rate” and work you 16 hours, you don’t work it, you will be replaced.

•pushback from owners / management on legitimate maintenance required to the point of either you just shut up and whip it off or find another job just to save some rich jerk a buck on the back of your license / liability.

I did not re-new my out of province inspection license because of this. If you are being forced into something you don't like, pack your shit up and leave.

~it’s an extremely small industry, you walk out like that you’ll be black listed, it’s not like automotive where you can just walk across the street. There’s less than 15,000 ames in Canada half of which are over 55.

•the all round low pay in the last 15 years that seems to be in an exponential downward spiral with no correction in sight (The TFW program is increasingly being abused).

After seeing some airlines pay schedules, I will make more per hour than I do fixing cars.
~ not the hours you work on a day rate you won’t (per hour)

•hours of averaging (look that crap up, don’t think most air carriers apply but SOME get approved nonetheless through their interpretation of the law / application wording). For the most part we are not seasonal workers, and no one is enforcing the law with these employers.

I have never heard of this, I'm going to look into it.

~it is ruthless avoid at all costs

•the almost complete lack of any kind of decent benefits / RSP contributions offered these days

WJ/AC seem to offer a decent stuff, at least from what I have read from their job ads. If you ask a automotive shop owner about RRSP contributions, you are going to get a blank stare.

~ you can do way better at any dealership

•using training bonds to leverage employees beyond reasonable workload / maintenance practices / expectations (never happened to me, I’ve never signed one for a type course, but I’ve witnessed some real screw jobs with some guys)
*NEVER sign a training bond, it is almost always used as leverage, and 100% a predatory tactic used by bad employers*

I would never sign something like that.

~ then you probably will never get an endorsement (bonds are more common these days than not) making you a non ACA’d AME which will put a bullseye on your head with management


•crap lifestyle the first several years living up north for garbage pay to gain experience (this is standard in Canada, experience is an expensive currency here)

I kinda feel that living up north or out in the middle of nowhere is a choice. I have seen some decent looking jobs that are a half hour drive from my house.

~you are absolutely wrong. 99% of ame apprentices that are green need experience before they get into larger companies. However I haven’t looked at apprentice positions for WJ or ac in years.

•the almost certain fact you will go through a divorce

My wife is more important to me than my job. If my employer requires me to change that, they will be replacing me.

~ employers value apprentices and low time ame’s as much as they can manipulate them. If you won’t be manipulated or do what they want (no matter how ridiculous) you will be replaced.

•the career long low compensation compared to almost any other trades (there’s guys on here with tons of endorsements and experience that have capped at 42/hr after nearly 40 years in the trade)

$42/hr is still a pay raise for me.

~After 40 years working and hundreds of thousands in type training as well as the level of liability it’s an insult

•Constant lies from management to the point everyone expects to get screwed over one way or another. It’s so expected in fact, no one is surprised when it happens anymore, honesty is a rarity it seems.

This happens everywhere.

~ I’ve never seen it in any other career like this one, it’s on another level


•toxic work environments devised by management pitting AME’s against each-other to increase production, decrease cost, and in their little minds “set a stern precedent” (tall poppy syndrome and a dangling carrot does this nicely) X management theory is alive and well in Canadian aviation, it’s disgusting.

This is every day in the automotive world. My proficiency numbers get posted every day for all to see. Every year I get sat down and shown how much I produced and where I stack up against my co-workers.

~ so you have a crap employer, work at another shop

•I can keep going but that’s a good start, anyone else reading this please add to the list…
All in all, I think the worst part for me is the shift work. I can do night shift, I just don't know if I want to. Like I said before every job has goods and bads. What are some of the good things? Experiences? Things learned? Things that you could not have gained anywhere else?

~I replied to this the post above
[/quote]

I added some notes, see above
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RLK
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by RLK »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:01 am
RLK wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:54 am [quote=Bug_Stomper_01 post_id=1210329
The trade itself is awesome, I like the diversity (in helicopters) engine, driveline, structural, avionics, component work, vibration analysis. I enjoy it all, I’ve worked very hard to get to the level and amount of training / knowledge I’m at, and it came at a huge sacrificial price.

It’s the other BS that buries the trade, the negatives far outweigh the positives in Canada these days. The trade itself im in is an awesome one, it’s the state of the industry I hate.
I think one of the best things about repairing things for a living is, not very many people have developed or want to have the skill of working with their hands. It gives us the ability to move around through multiple different industries. If an industry can't or won't offer better, someone else will steal their staff.

It was a pleasure picking your brain.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:23 am
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:01 am
RLK wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:54 am [quote=Bug_Stomper_01 post_id=1210329
The trade itself is awesome, I like the diversity (in helicopters) engine, driveline, structural, avionics, component work, vibration analysis. I enjoy it all, I’ve worked very hard to get to the level and amount of training / knowledge I’m at, and it came at a huge sacrificial price.

It’s the other BS that buries the trade, the negatives far outweigh the positives in Canada these days. The trade itself im in is an awesome one, it’s the state of the industry I hate.
I think one of the best things about repairing things for a living is, not very many people have developed or want to have the skill of working with their hands. It gives us the ability to move around through multiple different industries. If an industry can't or won't offer better, someone else will steal their staff.

It was a pleasure picking your brain.
That’s correct, and any time, I don’t hold back obviously. Any questions shoot me a message I’ll answer it to the best of my ability. And yes I love being a technician and fabricator.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Talked to a heli AME a little while AGO. Most operators have significantly revised wages recently. Those that did not have seen their guys leave and are now begging for talent.

Everyone talks about pilot shortages but the one that is really going to hurt is the looming AME shortage. Many are at or over retirement age and there is a severe shortage of new entrants.

The biggest losers are going to be GA AMO's. They can't match the WAWCON of large operators.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:42 am Talked to a heli AME a little while AGO. Most operators have significantly revised wages recently. Those that did not have seen their guys leave and are now begging for talent.

Everyone talks about pilot shortages but the one that is really going to hurt is the looming AME shortage. Many are at or over retirement age and there is a severe shortage of new entrants.

The biggest losers are going to be GA AMO's. They can't match the WAWCON of large operators.
There is no shortage of ames or pilots. Just a shortage of people willing to work for the garbage rates. The industry has no one to blame but themselves.
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:42 am Talked to a heli AME a little while AGO. Most operators have significantly revised wages recently. Those that did not have seen their guys leave and are now begging for talent.

Everyone talks about pilot shortages but the one that is really going to hurt is the looming AME shortage. Many are at or over retirement age and there is a severe shortage of new entrants.

The biggest losers are going to be GA AMO's. They can't match the WAWCON of large operators.
I am a heli AME and I can say they have revised pay minutely. Not significantly enough to attract skilled ames. Just enough to keep the lower time guys they have
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:42 am Talked to a heli AME a little while AGO. Most operators have significantly revised wages recently. Those that did not have seen their guys leave and are now begging for talent.

Everyone talks about pilot shortages but the one that is really going to hurt is the looming AME shortage. Many are at or over retirement age and there is a severe shortage of new entrants.

The biggest losers are going to be GA AMO's. They can't match the WAWCON of large operators.

Furthermore, the ghouls that are feeding this hysteria of “looming pilot and AME shortage” have been feeding us this line of crap since the late 80s.
They ALWAYS “MAKE DO”, and they ALWAYS WILL. It’s literally their MO.


*****PSA******

THERE IS NO PILOT AND / OR AME SHORTAGE! THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF BOTTOM FEEDERS THAT WILL WORK FOR THE GARBAGE DOG SH1T WAGES AND WORKINGN CONDITIONS THEY OFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FAAAAK!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Voyageur Airways Limited - Hamilton, ON; $21.54–$24.24 an hour

Post by groncher »

Here's another good one. Though they have increased the scale somewhat. look how their "innovative scheduling" of 8 on 4 off allows for 4 months off per year.
Do these people not realize that Monday to Friday also gives 4 months off per year also!!
52 weeks x 2 day weekend= 104 days, 9 stat days, another min 2 weeks=10 days and voila, 123 days off per year.



AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE ENGINEER, LINE MAINTENANCE, MAISR
Department: Line Maintenance
Location: Trenton, Ontario, with worldwide away-from-base deployments of 8 weeks or less.
Schedule: Standard work week
Job type: Full-time, permanent
Deadline: August 30, 2022, or until filled

COMPENSATION

Base Salary:
A starting wage of $31.83-$39.39/hour, subject to experience. Base Salary includes 4 months off per year.

PLUS

Other Compensatory Benefits:
Extended health care benefits for you and your dependents including prescription drugs, dental, eye care (glasses/lenses), hospital expenses, paramedical services, and other health services.
Insurance coverage including life, long-term/short-term disability, and out-of-country health insurance.
Employer-matching retirement pension plan.
Employee share ownership plan.
Employee family assistance program.
Employee referral bonus plan.
Various employee discount programs (Bell Mobility, Telus, GoodLife Fitness, CAA, RBC Insurance – among others).

SCHEDULING
Our innovative scheduling program for MAISR line operations involves a unique 8-weeks “on”, 4-weeks “off” employee scheduling program – averaging 4 months of off-time per year for each employee. This results in an effective Base Salary compensation rate of $51.00 - $58.50 per hour (subject to experience) plus your Deployment Salary when deployed.
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