Use of Chemical Weapons in Falujah

[swede]

GW, Rumsfeld et al had best watch where they throw their stones. It seems that Saddam Hussein's atrocities against civilians are no worse than theirs.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/7/11819/9522

[cyyz]

Where was your post about the Commies in the EX-USSR when they used gas in the the theater??

The funny thing is, all the bleeding heart liberals who did complain forced them to use conventional weapons in the school and more people ended up dying... LoL

Collateral Damage... Get over it..

[just clearing the trees]

Not entirely surprising. After all, Dick Cheney is trying to get an exemption in legislation meant to protect prisoners from abuse. Essentially he's pushing for a loophole that would allow them to torture prisoners to obtain information regarding terrorist attacks. Nothing surprises me anymore with these psychos.

[just clearing the trees]

Collateral Damage... Get over it..

I guess after a supremely intelligent quote like that, you'd fall into the 'psycho' category as well. You should become an advisor to the Bush Whitehouse.

[cyyz]

Maybe, but I'm still right...

So they bombed the place. Agent Orange, White Willy(pete?, whatever), big deal, it's a "hot zone."

If you decide to stay in your straw hut or Mud hut it's upto you, but when the insurgents are in the area, well that's to bad... Shoot them first, because if you don't the military might take you out with them.

as for the posted "news" article... I'll just stick to reading the Onion..

PS. You honestly think they were "testing" the weapons on the civies??

[just clearing the trees]

No, I don't think they were testing it. White phosphorus isn't exactly new.

But who am I to be the voice of reason. After all, you're right. At least you say you are. That should be good enough for everyone.

Watch where you go in TO, what with all the shootings and shit going on. Wouldn't want to get nailed by a stray bullet. Then again it would be your own fault for being in the 'hot zone.' Just some more collateral damage, no big deal.

[Nark]

Just clearing the trees:

Do you know how to interogate a terrorist/EPW(Enemy Prisoner of War)?
I highly doubt these wackjob journalist do either. To them everything short of bringing him a coffee is torture. I'm sure you can relate the media's accuracy in reporting aviation incidents.

I'm a Marine Officer, although my specific job does not take me to the front lines, I am still trained in handling EPW's (prisoners) until the apporpriate intellegence people take them from me. I just finished TBS ((The Basic School)where we learn the info) so its still fresh in my head. No where in my training did it say to torture the EPW. I'm not involed with this mess so this is all merely my opinion.

[Scuba_Steve]

WP was used a lot durring vietnam, and WWII(I think dresden was firebombed with it or somethign similair). Hell when I was in the artillery I used it in a smoke variant known as 'Smoke WP' it was also a minor incendiary and we were told it was not to be shot at troops since it consumed allthe o2 in the area suffocating said troops. I also believe british troops used it durring the first gulf war.

Anyways WP is a pretty common weapon, and while being hit with a WP grenade isn't a pleasant thought, niether is getting hit with a frag grenade....when is killing someone one way more humane than another durring a war?

So I guess you can assume that WP is a pretty well tested weapon. I don't believe much that comes out of the media these days. This included.

Cheers

[bob sacamano]

Watch where you go in TO, what with all the shootings and shit going on. Wouldn't want to get nailed by a stray bullet. Then again it would be your own fault for being in the 'hot zone.' Just some more collateral damage, no big deal.

Insurgents? you mean the people with zarqawi? or is it bin laden?

I won't even get into this, go back to watching fox news live with bill hemmer. He's got the truth for you...those damn terrorists! they coming after you!!!

Using buddy's logic, 9/11 victims were just collateral damage right? ( i bet you own the movie)

For those talking about torture, let me know once you're out in the real world and how much of those book policies you apply. Your normal soldier doesn't do the interrogating, even that is being out-sourced. Alot of foreign armies are much more skilled at torturing than the americans. Scare him with a dog? strip them naked? go to a syrian jail and see how their guests are treated.

http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchi ... ah_ING.wmv

p.s. collateral damage is a euphemism that was made up during the nam war. Why don't you (cyyz) look up the term collateral damage, and maybe then you'd have a better choice of words, rather than using arnold's movie titles to make you seem smarter and you know this and that and things of that nature.... (arnold accent)

[just clearing the trees]

Just clearing the trees:

Do you know how to interogate a terrorist/EPW(Enemy Prisoner of War)?
I highly doubt these wackjob journalist do either. To them everything short of bringing him a coffee is torture.

Torture is wrong no matter how mild. I do agree that some news agencies slant the news to fit their ideals (none more than FOX however, which I refuse to pay attention to and is probably 110% on board with torture) but I think it's safe to say that when American senators vote against Cheney's proposal to the tune of something like 90 to 9, I'd say it's pretty cut and dry. And when a senator like John McCain, who has been tortured in a POW camp, says last night in an interview on The Daily Show, that passing such legislation would be outright wrong, that's a pretty good tip-off. He also made an interesting point. Israel, which faces exponentially more danger from terrorists, refused to adopt a similar policy some time ago, because they felt it was wrong. Not only would any country that would legally allow torture lose a huge amount of credibility in the international stage, but think of the dangerous precedent that that would set. But hey, they're illegally detaining people for years with no reason, it would seem to be the next (il)logical step. What then, would you say, is an acceptable level of what I'll call abuse rather than torture, since you don't think that term is applicable? How far should they be able to go to get the info they want?

Legalized torture, secret CIA prisons, what will those crazy yanks think of next?

[grimey]

WP and Napalm arn't chemical weapons any more than TNT is. It's hot burning shit that you really don't want to touch. If they'd used VX or Sarin, like Saddam did, then yea, they'd have used chemical weapons. They don't have a clue about what they're reporting. And when the civilian population is willingly intermixed with the terrorists and insurgents, who are all dressed in civilian clothes (thereby breaking a war convention or two), it isn't the US's responsibity to sort out who's who.

[grimey]

WP was used a lot durring vietnam, and WWII(I think dresden was firebombed with it or somethign similair).

Dresden and Tokyo were both firebombed, the deathtolls at both cities exceeded the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. Both bombings relied mostly on the wooden structures in the cities for the fuel, though. The incendiary devices were only used to light the fires.

[cyyz]

Using buddy's logic, 9/11 victims were just collateral damage right? ( i bet you own the movie

Oh my god... ROFL, you agree with me.. THANKS. =)

Did you not see 1/2 the world, CANADIANS included, "oh, the americans had it comming, they deserved it."

even the bleeding heart americans, "oh it's cause we were bad to the afghani's, we had it comming, we're bad"

Exactly, like I said, when you post a left wing or right wing newspaper they slant it any way they want, and always has their side seem "superior"...

Until we abolish war and terror and murderers... Yes, the Americans(WTC) were collateral damage, seeing as the US was on a "war of terror"

No one group gets my sympathy...

As for torture.. <HAHA> being forced to eat pork in a US "pow" camp or having your head chopped off in a Taliban "pow" camp... You tell me which one you want... Frankly, all the terrorists should have their heads chopped off, eye for an eye....

Bob wrote "look it up"

unintentional harm to persons or property as the result of military action

Like I said, I DOUBT THE MILITARY WAS "TESTING" IT OUT ON THE CIVIES...

They just happened to be around. hence the WORD "collateral damage"

Or what would you write "wrong place at the wrong time, to bad, so sad, <haha>?"

[costermonger]

As for torture.. <HAHA> being forced to eat pork in a US "pow" camp or having your head chopped off in a Taliban "pow" camp... You tell me which one you want... Frankly, all the terrorists should have their heads chopped off, eye for an eye....

Moral authority? Who needs moral f&%@ing authority!?

/could probably end the war a lot faster with a few GI's strapped up with C4 to "take one for the team" too but that doesn't make it right.

[cyyz]

Moral authority? Who needs moral f&%@ing authority!?.

Exactly.. =) Even though you were being sarcastic.. =)

[Springbok]

Torture has been around since forever and has been used very effectively. Even in the war in Angola, we used to attach wires from a small hand held generator to the terrorists nutsacks, turn the handle and they would sing like canaries! Getting quick on the spot accurate intelligence in that way saves countless lives. The enemy use the same or even worse tactics so we had to train to be prepared for that shit as well.

War is a bitch and the more info that is denied to the press and ultimately the bleeding heart liberals, the better. The Americans are their own worse enemies with regard to this whole f-cking Iraqi issue. Their shit began way back in 1991 when during the first Gulf War, they allowed press into the front lines and further allowed every dickwad soldier and his bum chum to carry a digital camera into battle. Cameras and the press corps belong back at HQ and not in the front lines or operational areas. Abu Ghraib prison is a prime example of a photographic cluster f-ck.

Good soldiers do not allow press coverage of their operational activity. Look at the Special Forces of the world as an example.

Shit, I think I am way off track...getting late. Oh, one more thing, it has been correctly pointed out that White Phos has been around for yonks. Great stuff to work with, especially when the Terrs persist in climbing into their little hidey holes. Friggin stuff burns like hell and cannot be easily doused.

[costermonger]

Abu Graib prison is a prime example of a photographic cluster f-ck.

Abu Ghraib was a clusterfuck alright, but not because the guards had cameras.

[rigpiggy]

anybody remember the phoenix program. in Viet Nam the US came within a water buffalo's hair of breaking the VC resistance with a campaign of targeted asassinations. The press got a hold of it and it was shut down. Who won that one?