DEC Jazz

[rudder]

Hi Everyone,
I have a question about the DEC positions at Jazz. Do you think it is a good move starting as a captain when you don’t know the company, the aircraft, the routes… do you think being FO for a couple of months really makes a difference to learn the stuff or the DEC position is fine ?
Thank you very much !

In the classes with DEC positions available, many DEC positions have been available, only a handful have put up their hands for the DEC, the remainder of the ATPL new hires choose to start as FO.

You can put up your hand, but that doesn’t mean you will be successful in the initial type course, the upgrade assessment, line indoctrination, or the CA line check. These are all challenging endeavours, and there is just one standard.

Absent a background of command in a 705 operation, or command in corporate on a jet, or extensive experience as an FO in a 705 operation (preferably jet), the possibility of success for DEC at Jazz on the CRJ is significantly diminished. There is no such thing as ab initio training for DEC.

Remains to be seen what Jazz will do with DEC that are unsuccessful.

[daedalusx]

Hi Everyone,
I have a question about the DEC positions at Jazz. Do you think it is a good move starting as a captain when you don’t know the company, the aircraft, the routes… do you think being FO for a couple of months really makes a difference to learn the stuff or the DEC position is fine ?
Thank you very much !

In the classes with DEC positions available, many DEC positions have been available, only a handful have put up their hands for the DEC, the remainder of the ATPL new hires choose to start as FO.

You can put up your hand, but that doesn’t mean you will be successful in the initial type course, the upgrade assessment, line indoctrination, or the CA line check. These are all challenging endeavours, and there is just one standard.

Absent a background of command in a 705 operation, or command in corporate on a jet, or extensive experience as an FO in a 705 operation (preferably jet), the possibility of success for DEC at Jazz on the CRJ is significantly diminished. There is no such thing as ab initio training for DEC.

Remains to be seen what Jazz will do with DEC that are unsuccessful.

I really don’t know how much of a fucktard you’d have to be in order to fail an upgrade at Jazz ... I’d tell stories but even the most cynical here would say I’m full of shit

Pretty sure if you fail they’ll just give you more FTD, sim training, a “strong talk”, then another chance at the assessment course, then more training then a ride that you already know the script and then and extra 50-100hrs of Indoc and then they’ll shop around for a check airman to sign you off and if they can’t find anyone then a manager will do it. And then a month later on his first pairing post line check, the candidate will be clipping some runway edge lights taxiing at night in YVR and everyone will act like no-one could have seen this coming.

So yeah ... it’s really really really hard to fail the course compared to other 705 operators ... or at least it used to be but I doubt that the MPIC pilot shortage did anything to address that... if anything it’s worse now but I’ll be delighted if someone chimes in and tell me I’m wrong but commuting on the Jazz J/S in the past, I’ve seen a stuff that I wish I didn’t see. I’m much happier in the back, ignorance is truly bliss.

[flyingcanuck]

In the classes with DEC positions available, many DEC positions have been available, only a handful have put up their hands for the DEC, the remainder of the ATPL new hires choose to start as FO.

You can put up your hand, but that doesn’t mean you will be successful in the initial type course, the upgrade assessment, line indoctrination, or the CA line check. These are all challenging endeavours, and there is just one standard.

Absent a background of command in a 705 operation, or command in corporate on a jet, or extensive experience as an FO in a 705 operation (preferably jet), the possibility of success for DEC at Jazz on the CRJ is significantly diminished. There is no such thing as ab initio training for DEC.

Remains to be seen what Jazz will do with DEC that are unsuccessful.

I really don’t know how much of a fucktard you’d have to be in order to fail an upgrade at Jazz ... I’d tell stories but even the most cynical here would say I’m full of shit

Pretty sure if you fail they’ll just give you more FTD, sim training, a “strong talk”, then another chance at the assessment course, then more training then a ride that you already know the script and then and extra 50-100hrs of Indoc and then they’ll shop around for a check airman to sign you off and if they can’t find anyone then a manager will do it. And then a month later on his first pairing post line check, the candidate will be clipping some runway edge lights taxiing at night in YVR and everyone will act like no-one could have seen this coming.

So yeah ... it’s really really really hard to fail the course compared to other 705 operators ... or at least it used to be but I doubt that the MPIC pilot shortage did anything to address that... if anything it’s worse now but I’ll be delighted if someone chimes in and tell me I’m wrong but commuting on the Jazz J/S in the past, I’ve seen a stuff that I wish I didn’t see. I’m much happier in the back, ignorance is truly bliss.

You're pretty wrong, I know several people who failed and did NOT upgrade. They don't just pass just cause. Sure there are some that aren't the best but overall th process is pretty good

[daedalusx]

You're pretty wrong, I know several people who failed and did NOT upgrade. They don't just pass just cause. Sure there are some that aren't the best but overall th process is pretty good

Well that's good to hear. Are you saying that you you personally know several people who failed their upgrades in their last 3-4 years or was that before?

[swervin]

New DEC experience requirements now in place.

[FL030]

New DEC experience requirements now in place.

No longer any hour requirements I see.

Valid Transport Canada Instrument Rating.
Valid Airline Transport Pilots License.
Valid Transport Canada Multi Engine rating.
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
Must be able to obtain a Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC).
Must hold a current passport at time of hire.
If you are a Permanent Resident, you must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
Must have completed a High School diploma.
Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset.

[swervin]

New DEC experience requirements now in place.

No longer any hour requirements I see.

Valid Transport Canada Instrument Rating.
Valid Airline Transport Pilots License.
Valid Transport Canada Multi Engine rating.
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
Must be able to obtain a Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC).
Must hold a current passport at time of hire.
If you are a Permanent Resident, you must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
Must have completed a High School diploma.
Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset.

Nope.

[PostmasterGeneral]

You're pretty wrong, I know several people who failed and did NOT upgrade. They don't just pass just cause. Sure there are some that aren't the best but overall th process is pretty good

Well that's good to hear. Are you saying that you you personally know several people who failed their upgrades in their last 3-4 years or was that before?

There's one in particular who keeps trying, but is unsuccessful. She's had what, 3 kicks at the can now?

[FL030]

New DEC experience requirements now in place.

No longer any hour requirements I see.

Valid Transport Canada Instrument Rating.
Valid Airline Transport Pilots License.
Valid Transport Canada Multi Engine rating.
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
Must be able to obtain a Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC).
Must hold a current passport at time of hire.
If you are a Permanent Resident, you must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
Must have completed a High School diploma.
Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset.

Nope.

Pray for no Colgan Air's this winter.

[RockSalty]

New DEC experience requirements now in place.

No longer any hour requirements I see.

Valid Transport Canada Instrument Rating.
Valid Airline Transport Pilots License.
Valid Transport Canada Multi Engine rating.
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
Must be able to obtain a Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC).
Must hold a current passport at time of hire.
If you are a Permanent Resident, you must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
Must have completed a High School diploma.
Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset.

Nope.

Care to elaborate then?

[NovaBoy]

If Jazz were paying decent money, I’d think about going back. But to make what I made 20 years ago…..no way.

Time to start coughing up the money if you want experienced pilots in the left seat.

[Loon-A-Tic]

New DEC experience requirements now in place.

No longer any hour requirements I see.

Valid Transport Canada Instrument Rating.
Valid Airline Transport Pilots License.
Valid Transport Canada Multi Engine rating.
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
Must be able to obtain a Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC).
Must hold a current passport at time of hire.
If you are a Permanent Resident, you must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
Must have completed a High School diploma.
Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset.

Doesn't the last requirement essentially dictate time required owing to the ATPL reference !!

"Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset."

[airway]

New DEC experience requirements now in place.

No longer any hour requirements I see.

Valid Transport Canada Instrument Rating.
Valid Airline Transport Pilots License.
Valid Transport Canada Multi Engine rating.
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
Must be able to obtain a Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC).
Must hold a current passport at time of hire.
If you are a Permanent Resident, you must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
Must have completed a High School diploma.
Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset.

Doesn't the last requirement essentially dictate time required owing to the ATPL reference !!

"Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset."

Having a ATPL has always been required at Jazz in order to upgrade.



.

[co-joe]

...
When I bumped into a line ops person who had the information for Jazz hiring last week, they said 10-12 have been showing up for a 20 seat ground school. Interviews are even higher no-show/call returns.

Maybe Jazz should overbook their groundschools like AC overbooks their flights to account for a certain percentage of people not showing up? Imagine quitting your job and showing up to class and being told, sorry we overbooked the classroom, you can have a first class ticket on the next one (in a month) here's $200.

[rudder]

...
When I bumped into a line ops person who had the information for Jazz hiring last week, they said 10-12 have been showing up for a 20 seat ground school. Interviews are even higher no-show/call returns.

Maybe Jazz should overbook their groundschools like AC overbooks their flights to account for a certain percentage of people not showing up? Imagine quitting your job and showing up to class and being told, sorry we overbooked the classroom, you can have a first class ticket on the next one (in a month) here's $200.

On June 06 20 showed up.

On June 27 19 showed up.

Not sure about July 18 or August 08. Previous poster said August 29 was 19 in attendance. Don’t know where the rumour came from about PIT no shows. Interviews and sim check may be altogether different.

[Tbayer2021]

No longer any hour requirements I see.

Valid Transport Canada Instrument Rating.
Valid Airline Transport Pilots License.
Valid Transport Canada Multi Engine rating.
Valid Transport Canada Class 1 Medical.
Must be able to obtain a Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC).
Must hold a current passport at time of hire.
If you are a Permanent Resident, you must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Must be legally entitled to work in Canada.
Must have completed a High School diploma.
Candidates must meet Transport Canada English proficiency standard.
Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset.

Doesn't the last requirement essentially dictate time required owing to the ATPL reference !!

"Hiring Minimums for Direct Entry Captain is an ATPL with a preference for 705 level Pilot In Command experience as an asset."

Having a ATPL has always been required at Jazz in order to upgrade.



.

An ATPL is not a company requirement, it's a CAR's requirement to act as PIC on any transport category aircraft. Anyone wanting to upgrade and not aware of this should rethink their desire to be a Captain.

[rudder]

An ATPL is not a company requirement, it's a CAR's requirement to act as PIC on any transport category aircraft. Anyone wanting to upgrade and not aware of this should rethink their desire to be a Captain.

If you don’t have an ATPL You will not be interviewing for a DEC position. Once on line (or on a PIT course), you will not be awarded a CA position (opportunity to qualify) without a valid ATPL on file with the company.

If you do not know that am ATPL is required for CA in a Part 705 operation then you have no business worrying about the DEC process. You need to go back and hit the books.

[Tbayer2021]

An ATPL is not a company requirement, it's a CAR's requirement to act as PIC on any transport category aircraft. Anyone wanting to upgrade and not aware of this should rethink their desire to be a Captain.

If you don’t have an ATPL You will not be interviewing for a DEC position. Once on line (or on a PIT course), you will not be awarded a CA position (opportunity to qualify) without a valid ATPL on file with the company.

If you do not know that am ATPL is required for CA in a Part 705 operation then you have no business worrying about the DEC process. You need to go back and hit the books.

Are there some out there actually expecting to be awarded the left seat without meeting the bare minimum legal requirement?

[rudder]

Are there some out there actually expecting to be awarded the left seat without meeting the bare minimum legal requirement?

Likely not. The bid would be ignored anyway.

But there are some that meet minimum licensing qualifications (but with zero relevant experience for DEC at a 705 operation) that are permitted to attempt to qualify as CA.

Most other operators have an experience matrix. Jazz does not.

[negative_g]

I heard there's big delays getting your ATPL signed off with TC. Probably causing issues not just at Jazz but 703/704 as well for upgrading.

[QKZXKV]

I heard there's big delays getting your ATPL signed off with TC. Probably causing issues not just at Jazz but 703/704 as well for upgrading.

That's if the candidates sit around and let TC take their time. Squeak wheel gets the grease!

[Caterpillar]

I heard there's big delays getting your ATPL signed off with TC. Probably causing issues not just at Jazz but 703/704 as well for upgrading.

Most 703/704 COMs don't require captain to have ATPL. You mostly require ATPL to be a training captain.

Some companies will require ATPL for insurance/experience/etc... I can only assume everything is been changing since Encore/Flair/Jazz/Porter is emptying the pool of ATPL.

[short bus]

^ the above is very wrong information

[RockSalty]

I heard there's big delays getting your ATPL signed off with TC. Probably causing issues not just at Jazz but 703/704 as well for upgrading.

Most 703/704 COMs don't require captain to have ATPL. You mostly require ATPL to be a training captain.

Some companies will require ATPL for insurance/experience/etc... I can only assume everything is been changing since Encore/Flair/Jazz/Porter is emptying the pool of ATPL.

Plenty of medevac operators require an ATPL for their captains since thats what the province normally wants. What I've started to see happen instead of requirements going down is pay going up at a few of them to try and stop us from leaving.

[Bluewaffe]

Any update on how the DEC candidates are doing? I heard theres a 10% passing rate?