Career advice to get to AC

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twa22
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Re: Career advice to get to AC

Post by twa22 »

‘Bob’ wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:00 pm
tbaylx wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:15 pm You do realize that Flair recruiters read this site right? We'd prefer not to spend $50K making you into a decent 737 pilot if your intentions are to go to AC as soon as possible.
Remember. Money talks and bullshit walks.

Sorry.. but nobody is sticking around for 18 day months and King Air wages to fly a 737. They are there for the heavy jet time and then out.

And Flair simply does not have the career progression or stability of Air Canada which itself is already well behind the rest of the world.

The ULCC model will not work in Canada for the number of carriers pursuing it. There will be casualties, and Flair May very well be one of them.
Uh, what? Last I read here, a 737 FO at Flair starts at 69k base.. And an AC FO starts at 50-55k base and barely cracks the 70k base salary after year 3 on flat pay if I'm not mistaken (i'm sure someone can post the flat pay scale somewhere and correct my numbers)

But you know 'Bob', sometimes it's not always about the money, or that big shiny jet, or about some fancy uniform...

Why you, and others like you hate on Flair, I will never understand, you should be rooting for their success, as if they do well, it will only prop up the industry and hopefully improve wawcons everywhere else...
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DanWEC
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Re: Career advice to get to AC

Post by DanWEC »

Flair definitely has good starting pay, but that's where it ends. AC is the complete opposite.
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FL030
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Re: Career advice to get to AC

Post by FL030 »

DanWEC wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:03 pm Flair definitely has good starting pay, but that's where it ends. AC is the complete opposite.
I wouldn't say it's good. It's just not horrific.
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‘Bob’
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Re: Career advice to get to AC

Post by ‘Bob’ »

twa22 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:24 pm
‘Bob’ wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:00 pm
tbaylx wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:15 pm You do realize that Flair recruiters read this site right? We'd prefer not to spend $50K making you into a decent 737 pilot if your intentions are to go to AC as soon as possible.
Remember. Money talks and bullshit walks.

Sorry.. but nobody is sticking around for 18 day months and King Air wages to fly a 737. They are there for the heavy jet time and then out.

And Flair simply does not have the career progression or stability of Air Canada which itself is already well behind the rest of the world.

The ULCC model will not work in Canada for the number of carriers pursuing it. There will be casualties, and Flair May very well be one of them.
Uh, what? Last I read here, a 737 FO at Flair starts at 69k base.. And an AC FO starts at 50-55k base and barely cracks the 70k base salary after year 3 on flat pay if I'm not mistaken (i'm sure someone can post the flat pay scale somewhere and correct my numbers)

But you know 'Bob', sometimes it's not always about the money, or that big shiny jet, or about some fancy uniform...

Why you, and others like you hate on Flair, I will never understand, you should be rooting for their success, as if they do well, it will only prop up the industry and hopefully improve wawcons everywhere else...
I will root for Flair’s success when they properly pay their pilots. They are not propping up the industry. They are part of the race to the bottom.

You’re in command of a brand-new 737MAX with 170 people in the back but someone flying a King Air is making as much as you are?

It’s definitely not about the money…. and if it’s not about the jet or the uniform.. what is it about? Giving the unwashed masses a $99 flight to Tucson AZ if it isn’t cancelled? Ensuring that the profits are large at the expense of pilot remuneration?

Sure.. they pay more than AC, to start. Most pilots do the math and realize that they will be far ahead at AC rather than sticking it out at Flair.

AC knows that pilots do the math as well.. and flat pay was probably made by their yield management experts to lower total cost of remuneration (got to claw back those extra 5 years of age 65 wages somehow) at the sacrifice a few applicants.
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twa22
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Re: Career advice to get to AC

Post by twa22 »

‘Bob’ wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:16 pm
twa22 wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:24 pm
‘Bob’ wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:00 pm

Remember. Money talks and bullshit walks.

Sorry.. but nobody is sticking around for 18 day months and King Air wages to fly a 737. They are there for the heavy jet time and then out.

And Flair simply does not have the career progression or stability of Air Canada which itself is already well behind the rest of the world.

The ULCC model will not work in Canada for the number of carriers pursuing it. There will be casualties, and Flair May very well be one of them.
Uh, what? Last I read here, a 737 FO at Flair starts at 69k base.. And an AC FO starts at 50-55k base and barely cracks the 70k base salary after year 3 on flat pay if I'm not mistaken (i'm sure someone can post the flat pay scale somewhere and correct my numbers)

But you know 'Bob', sometimes it's not always about the money, or that big shiny jet, or about some fancy uniform...

Why you, and others like you hate on Flair, I will never understand, you should be rooting for their success, as if they do well, it will only prop up the industry and hopefully improve wawcons everywhere else...
I will root for Flair’s success when they properly pay their pilots. They are not propping up the industry. They are part of the race to the bottom.

You’re in command of a brand-new 737MAX with 170 people in the back but someone flying a King Air is making as much as you are?

It’s definitely not about the money…. and if it’s not about the jet or the uniform.. what is it about? Giving the unwashed masses a $99 flight to Tucson AZ if it isn’t cancelled? Ensuring that the profits are large at the expense of pilot remuneration?

Sure.. they pay more than AC, to start. Most pilots do the math and realize that they will be far ahead at AC rather than sticking it out at Flair.

AC knows that pilots do the math as well.. and flat pay was probably made by their yield management experts to lower total cost of remuneration (got to claw back those extra 5 years of age 65 wages somehow) at the sacrifice a few applicants.
What about Sunwing 737 captains? The last pay scale I found online that goes up to 2020 doesn't have better rates then Flair... and sunwing has been around for many, many years. Should we even mention Swoop?

Look, for sure the pay could be better, without a doubt, but it goes without saying that the pay could be better at every single 705 in this country. As far as I could tell pay wise, Flair isn't paying captains any less then other major 737 operators, except for Westjet mainline and Air Canada

So when I say it's not always about the money, I mean that in terms of how you are treated. Flair pilots seem happy, it seems like a good work culture, at least based on what i've been reading here in the forums, so I will admit that it's not a good representation of the big picture... but, if the culture is good, as I suspect it is (or at least better then others), then the money isn't as important.

Now, i'm not saying that a good work culture justifies low wages, I'm saying that striking that perfect balance between remuneration and work culture matters more so then the dollar amount at the end of the day. That's why the uniform or that shiny jet realistically shouldn't matter, but that's me being idealistic, I understand these perfect, balanced worlds don't exist. I also know some things will likely never change... some people just need to go to big red to feel accomplished in life and will do whatever it takes to get there, such as going to Flair and dumping them after a year... now you tell, which is more of a race to the bottom, dumping flair or the captain pay?
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Re: Carrier advice to get to AC

Post by rooster »

Hangry wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:20 pm Interesting to see the Flair fanboys being so vocal. More interesting is how long it will last.

To the OP. Either way you’ll get a good shot I’m sure. Good luck.
The Flair fanboys have been hearing your kind of sentiment for years and give their growth and success, are mute to your negative opinions. Rightfully so.
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Hangry
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Re: Carrier advice to get to AC

Post by Hangry »

rooster wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:58 pm
Hangry wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:20 pm Interesting to see the Flair fanboys being so vocal. More interesting is how long it will last.

To the OP. Either way you’ll get a good shot I’m sure. Good luck.
The Flair fanboys have been hearing your kind of sentiment for years and give their growth and success, are mute to your negative opinions. Rightfully so.
Everyone hopes for Flairs success. The Kool Aid always sours. Just curious how long it’ll take that’s all.
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Re: Carrier advice to get to AC

Post by rooster »

Hangry wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:36 am
rooster wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:58 pm
Hangry wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:20 pm Interesting to see the Flair fanboys being so vocal. More interesting is how long it will last.

To the OP. Either way you’ll get a good shot I’m sure. Good luck.
The Flair fanboys have been hearing your kind of sentiment for years and give their growth and success, are mute to your negative opinions. Rightfully so.
Everyone hopes for Flairs success. The Kool Aid always sours. Just curious how long it’ll take that’s all.
Well instead of questioning when it will end, maybe support the ones who enjoy their careers there and want to drink the koolaid. Just a suggestion.
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