This is a Yes

[Straight2Secondary]

First off. Thank you Gary for being the tie break to let the pilot group vote. I hoped you would be the MEC chair that would have the foresight to see that this type of decision belongs to the group and not the MEC. It could not have been an easy decision, good on you.

Secondly, I'm a yes vote. I agree with the masses, there could have been more to make this an easier decision. But here we are and seeing through the first 48 hours of negative echo chambers, I see a lot of good for our group.

Why I'm a yes, I believe in the growth plan coming for summer 2023 and I want to see more WB CA and FO jobs. I want to see the flat pay reduced to 2 years, and the year 13/14 is another permanent gain I'm happy to see.

I'm a believer that when the company grows, we all win. 2019 was one of my best years at AC and had it not been for 2020 and covid I can only imagine the point my career would be at.

By voting Yes, We allow the bargaining for 2023/2024 to start at this new point and do not need to spend bargaining capital getting this back on the table in 2 years.

The training effeciencies the company gains are wins for us and it gives Jazz the room needed to recover from the Covid debacle the federal government put us all in.

I believe that there is no second swing at this, if we vote no there will be no second chance and it's the new hires that suffer. They have suffered enough over the past 3 years.

I believe in Murray bringing us a fair offer, he's a pilots VP and I trust him.

I do not think we lose any leverage for 2023 and 2024. I think our position is stronger in 2023 negots by voting yes and we show the execs that we believe in the plan and expect their plan to bring profits in 2023. We will share in those profits and demand the wage increases when we have true leverage.

If they fail to do those things, and fail to deliver, at that point saying no makes sense to me.

[BTD]

C4E81D0B-B251-4F8D-A2CC-B29C3E4B7757.jpeg (61.75 KiB) Viewed 6547 times

[JHR]

That initial post has to be a joke...

[RRJetPilot]

100% troll for sure. No one is this stupid.

[rooster]

LOL this guy has 3 posts. 2 were relate to an ALPA/ACPA thread, and this being his third.

100% trolling. Was wondering when they'd resurface regarding this MOU. Friend of mine showed it to me and even I think it's laughable and embarrassing and I am not even an AC pilot. Hope you guys vote it down! Good luck! The rest of us other airline pilots are counting on you to help raise the standards appropriately.

[Rooster69]

It seems to me, the only ‘gains’ are the year 13/14 pay rates. The other gains are measures the company area pretty much forced to do. AC can’t honour the Jazz flow through because there won’t be enough experienced pilots left there to safely operate, ergo the need to let the Jazz pilots accrue seniority at mainline while they stay at Jazz.
From what I have heard, there is a 20% no show for initial ground school courses. AC is goin* to have to change the pay if they want pilots. Right now, AC has around 4000 pilots, it will need 6000 pilots two years from now. (heard that directly from an impeccable source).
Cargo wet lease monies would be coming no matter what.

[flyingcanuck]

Not at AC but can't believe someone can actually think that the "execs" well "see the pilots believe in the plan" and give them rewards. They don't care about anyone but $$$

[Alkasultzer]

Another management wanna with his or her 2 cents

Thanks for the joke.

It's almost as funny as what this vote result will do to this company lap dog association known as ACPA

[alkaseltzer]

Another management wanna with his or her 2 cents

Thanks for the joke.

It's almost as funny as what this vote result will do to this company lap dog association known as ACPA

Look at the kettle. You impersonate my style and handle, you're the wannabe.

It's not a great deal. But I trust Murray Strom. I'm voting yes for it.

A bird in the hand...(you can finish the sentence, sultzer)

[negative_g]

Another management wanna with his or her 2 cents

Thanks for the joke.

It's almost as funny as what this vote result will do to this company lap dog association known as ACPA

Look at the kettle. You impersonate my style and handle, you're the wannabe.

It's not a great deal. But I trust Murray Strom. I'm voting yes for it.

A bird in the hand...(you can finish the sentence, sultzer)

You know I read a lot of your stuff here and you often have good perspectives and I like a lot of what I read. But trust Murray? C'mon man, he's a manager now. His job is to manage costs. I hope you reconsider, as a jr guy asking you to. Don't vote yes for us. If you vote yes do it on the merits of the deal, which frankly fall short and have a lot of unanswered questions around scope not to mention us screwing with another unions ability to capitalize their own leverage.

[WellThatAgedWell]

Bet you Murray's compensation package will be seven figures this year if this passes. If he can keep millions out of Air Canada pilots pockets they will give him a small piece of that pie.

If he can convince 4000 pilots this is a good deal he will have earned it!

[QKZXKV]

First off. Thank you Gary for being the tie break to let the pilot group vote. I hoped you would be the MEC chair that would have the foresight to see that this type of decision belongs to the group and not the MEC. It could not have been an easy decision, good on you.

Secondly, I'm a yes vote. I agree with the masses, there could have been more to make this an easier decision. But here we are and seeing through the first 48 hours of negative echo chambers, I see a lot of good for our group.

Why I'm a yes, I believe in the growth plan coming for summer 2023 and I want to see more WB CA and FO jobs. I want to see the flat pay reduced to 2 years, and the year 13/14 is another permanent gain I'm happy to see.

I'm a believer that when the company grows, we all win. 2019 was one of my best years at AC and had it not been for 2020 and covid I can only imagine the point my career would be at.

By voting Yes, We allow the bargaining for 2023/2024 to start at this new point and do not need to spend bargaining capital getting this back on the table in 2 years.

The training effeciencies the company gains are wins for us and it gives Jazz the room needed to recover from the Covid debacle the federal government put us all in.

I believe that there is no second swing at this, if we vote no there will be no second chance and it's the new hires that suffer. They have suffered enough over the past 3 years.

I believe in Murray bringing us a fair offer, he's a pilots VP and I trust him.

I do not think we lose any leverage for 2023 and 2024. I think our position is stronger in 2023 negots by voting yes and we show the execs that we believe in the plan and expect their plan to bring profits in 2023. We will share in those profits and demand the wage increases when we have true leverage.

If they fail to do those things, and fail to deliver, at that point saying no makes sense to me.

Bud, I would say thanks for the laugh but in actual fact this is so terribly wrong, I can't even laugh... This is the prime example of BS that convinces our newer members to buy into a turd and vote for it then lose out on this. If we sign this what's to say they won't come back in a couple years when you dream in technicolor that we'll have "leverage" and then say "we gave you a lot in 2022... we can't give much more". That's exactly what happened with the Express 17 year agreement. They locked in under the impression that it was it... well guess what now that the so called 60% "flow " isn't being honoured, there's no place to really negotiate against that. The bed has been made over there, we'll make the same mistake if people are naive enough to listen to nonsense like yours.

[bcflyer]

First off. Thank you Gary for being the tie break to let the pilot group vote. I hoped you would be the MEC chair that would have the foresight to see that this type of decision belongs to the group and not the MEC. It could not have been an easy decision, good on you.

Secondly, I'm a yes vote. I agree with the masses, there could have been more to make this an easier decision. But here we are and seeing through the first 48 hours of negative echo chambers, I see a lot of good for our group.

Why I'm a yes, I believe in the growth plan coming for summer 2023 and I want to see more WB CA and FO jobs. I want to see the flat pay reduced to 2 years, and the year 13/14 is another permanent gain I'm happy to see.

I'm a believer that when the company grows, we all win. 2019 was one of my best years at AC and had it not been for 2020 and covid I can only imagine the point my career would be at.

By voting Yes, We allow the bargaining for 2023/2024 to start at this new point and do not need to spend bargaining capital getting this back on the table in 2 years.

The training effeciencies the company gains are wins for us and it gives Jazz the room needed to recover from the Covid debacle the federal government put us all in.

I believe that there is no second swing at this, if we vote no there will be no second chance and it's the new hires that suffer. They

I do not think we lose any leverage for 2023 and 2024. I think our position is stronger in 2023 negots by voting yes and we show the execs that we believe in the plan and expect their plan to bring profits in 2023. We will share in those profits and demand the wage increases when we have true leverage.

If they fail to do those things, and fail to deliver, at that point saying no makes sense to me.

I can’t believe I’m actually replying to an obvious troll but I’ve got a few questions for you.

What growth plan are you taking about? There are no more WB aircraft coming, there have been no press releases of huge WB expansion so where is the growth you are taking about?

What bargaining capital do you think we will need to use if we vote no? The company is getting rid of flat pay regardless of what we do so the junior pilots will get their raises regardless so no capital required there. They are going to do the wet lease regardless of what we do (it’s in the contract already so I’m not sure how that’s a gain btw) and the money will be spread amongst us all so no capital required there. The only thing we got that we weren’t getting anyway is a 2% increase for year 13-14. Hardly worth even mentioning.

Please explain what you see as our “real leverage” that we will have in 2023 if we vote yes now. Unless you are brand new you’ll know that AC doesn’t do things out of the goodness of their hearts because we helped out. I’m very curious to hear what you think we’ll have.

[Ifly]

It seems to me, the only ‘gains’ are the year 13/14 pay rates.

I don't think this is a gain. Why would we want to extend the amount of time it takes to get to full pay scale? We should be going in the other direction. Max pay in 10!

[negative_g]

Most of them are like .5% and 1.5%. That's an insult, and not a win.

[Straight2Secondary]

Happy to hear lots of initial negativity is turning around with education and understanding.

It's going to be a close vote, but I'm seeing the majority of reasonable people saying Yes now.

If you surround yourself with negativity, that's the only opinion you hear and think that's what the majority are going to vote.

I can assure the no voters, there is a much stronger yes presence than you think. It is great to hear and see reasonable people prevailing.

The P4C keyboard warriors can spread all the mis information and lies they want. Same song and dance from them, all of the leaks from JJ prior to the announcement were amusing. The lack of professionalism is not surprising from such amateurs.

[GeoffPilot]

Lol...

Just like your first ever post about elections?

I think you're batting a solid 0.00% on your predictions

[QKZXKV]

Happy to hear lots of initial negativity is turning around with education and understanding.

It's going to be a close vote, but I'm seeing the majority of reasonable people saying Yes now.

If you surround yourself with negativity, that's the only opinion you hear and think that's what the majority are going to vote.

I can assure the no voters, there is a much stronger yes presence than you think. It is great to hear and see reasonable people prevailing.

The P4C keyboard warriors can spread all the mis information and lies they want. Same song and dance from them, all of the leaks from JJ prior to the announcement were amusing. The lack of professionalism is not surprising from such amateurs.

you sound like the CBC and their "polling"

[bcflyer]

Happy to hear lots of initial negativity is turning around with education and understanding.

It's going to be a close vote, but I'm seeing the majority of reasonable people saying Yes now.

If you surround yourself with negativity, that's the only opinion you hear and think that's what the majority are going to vote.

I can assure the no voters, there is a much stronger yes presence than you think. It is great to hear and see reasonable people prevailing.

The P4C keyboard warriors can spread all the mis information and lies they want. Same song and dance from them, all of the leaks from JJ prior to the announcement were amusing. The lack of professionalism is not surprising from such amateurs.

I notice you haven’t answered any of my questions. Maybe you missed my post?

[Ratherbe]

Vote yes and support the our negots team or vote no and support the lunatics....again

[QKZXKV]

Vote yes and support the our negots team or vote no and support the lunatics....again

Naive... Again

[Chateau]

Vote yes and support the our negots team or vote no and support the lunatics....again

The lunatics that don't want to give away concessions during a mass labour shortage

The nerve of them!!!

[altiplano]

Vote no and send a message of solidarity that we won't continue to make concessions and we can't be bought off with miniscule, temporary gains. That's the message we need going into a contract year.

There is no risk voting this down, the company will probably come with another proposal. But if not main table negots start in the New Year.

Flat pay has to go anyway, the company needs to attract more applicants, turns out that it isn't gone at the LCC under this deal anyway! What an oversight by the NC & MEC, or was it? Set the standard that we have to pay to get rid of it and we'll be paying twice here.

More time to reach top pay? Not a gain.

90% 777 freight pay established. Not a gain.

Open ended seniority concessions. How exposed will we be on this one alone.

Permanent training flexibility concessions. No snap backs again?

Open ended and uncapped scope concessions on 55 seat jets operated by cideshare and US regionals on top of our already high number of regionals permitted under the CPA deal with Jazz. This isn't there for nothing and the association has done zero analysis on this. Opening scope is never a good idea.

There are so many things wrong here... it was one thing to do a temporary let for training flexibility, but we have put permanent concessions in here for temporary and disappearing gains that add up to a couple bucks a day per pilot take home.

Hard No.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I'll say this once, as a non-Air Canada pilot.

YOU, Air Canada pilots, are the ones that need to raise the bar and set an example. If you can't do that, there is no hope for the rest of us. Vote whatever is in your best collective interest. Look South of the border, look overseas and compare. See what you're worth. If you raise the bar, the rest of us will follow suit.

Like the old meme goes:

[Protonpilot]

Flat pay has to go anyway, the company needs to attract more applicants, turns out that it isn't gone at the LCC under this deal anyway! What an oversight by the NC & MEC, or was it? Set the standard that we have to pay to get rid of it and we'll be paying twice here.

More time to reach top pay? Not a gain.

I've checked with a rep, the new rates for years 1-4 in the MOA will apply to all new hires, full stop. The LCC rumor started on a forum, no basis in fact.

Year 13 and 14 new rates is a gain, a lot of guys on the line don't understand this one. 1300 members currently have more than 12 YOS, instant pay raise. And 99% of pilots will eventually have more than 12 YOS and will benefit. Nothing in this one is being spread out, only added. Pretty straightforward, not sure why there's so much confusion on this particular piece.