How important is taildragger time?

maniac779 · Post by **maniac779** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:30 pm

I was just wondering what the opinion was on the importance of taildragger time now a days. Considering its rather uncommon for low timers to have these days and with all the taildraggers still out there, is it much of an asset? Are there any companies out there in particular who like to see a bunch of tail time?

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:36 pm

Needless to say, tailwheel time is only important if you actually plan to fly one. Most pilots can now go through a career ever touching a tailwheel airplane. Nevertheless, if you ever do get the opportunity, do it. It will only make you a better stick & rudder pilot.

Always Moving · Post by **Always Moving** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:01 pm

I only have like 25h or so in a J3-cub and in a C-195 (YES you heard right 195 with the Jacobs 330) and I find myself taxing with more finesse(less breaking more planning) I had about 2000h when I first sat in the cub and I did not think it was a big deal, then like a year later try the 195 and IT IS A BIG DEAL the tail I mean.
Nowadays I do not think is necessary unless you are in very rough terrain, but I will not hurt you FOR SURE.

I hope the CAT and all the usual guys do not read this or I will get grieve for the rest of my life.

PS: I believe I read a very extensive thread about this before

MurtsAir · Post by **MurtsAir** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:43 pm

Well I learned to fly on a Fleet Canuck, pretty old school for a 23 year old and have about 300 hours tail wheel time. It really makes the CP take you seriously when your starting out. and I found that when i hopped into my first "conventional" plane it was joke to fly.

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:48 pm

It is like any other kind of experience.

If the CP has lots of taildragger time, he is going to give preference to resumés with taildragger time. If he does not, he likely will not care.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:56 pm

Or understand.

corn-shoot · Post by **corn-shoot** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:59 pm

I think tail dragger time is really important if you plan on flying a taildragger.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:48 pm

And if you never ever fly one again it will make you a better pilot....period.

Thump · Post by **Thump** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:27 pm

Taildragger time is respected because you learn to use your feet a skill that your body will not forget.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:40 pm

Training is training. It will make you a better pilot. Will taildragger time make you a better pilot?. Probabally, but are you deficient without the time? I doubt it, but as most have alluded to, it will develope hand, eye, feet co-ordination that is helpful but you can always develop the same skills in a trike, just that in a trike, it is nice and in a taildragger, it is manditory. Besides, it's fun. A Luscombe is a good trainier, ugly enough to demand respect but docile enough to inspire confidance but the all time best taildragger of all is the CANADIAN designed Fleet 80 Canuck. a truley classic airplane.

N2 · Post by N2 » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:06 pm

Crap I had that wrong too! I thought taildragging was what one did the morning after a heavy night of drinking.

Thump · Post by **Thump** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:13 pm

Shit, I guess I have less taildragger time than I thought...

Thump · Post by **Thump** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:36 pm

Walking home with your girlfriend after she just caucht you checking out another chick... you know you're not getting any...
Taildragging right?

Whats next can't log IMC when my glasses fog up??

Elman · Post by **Elman** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:27 am

To be honest, it doesn't make any difference at all. Your hands and feet benefit from the experience, but generally CP's don't care. Like others have already said, it's really only a benefit if you're going to be flying them professionally. Regardless, at least they are a ton of fun.

N2 · Post by N2 » Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:12 am

Now cavemen really knew the true meaning of taildragging!

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:57 pm

How important are conventional gear hours in the log book?

For that matter, how important are Saudi snowmobiles, Jamaican snowshoes, or American beers? Those Italian hip waiders sure do rock though!

cj

ASA120 · Post by **ASA120** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:54 pm

As the previous post reflect, taildragger time is like dating a beautiful redhead. There are not many around but when you get your opportunity, it is both challenging and will keep you on your toes. There are sort of moody, and are know to be stubborn. If you don't pay attention you will be caught in a ground loop. A red head has that soft skin, but can be so cruel, just like a tail dragger.

All in all when you look back after a few years removed from dating the red head/flying a tail dragger, you will only remember the good times not the bad.

CF-RYE · Post by **CF-RYE** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:01 pm

How important is tail dragger time?

Not very important according to insurance companies I guess. My Beaver time on floats got me insured on skis (without previous tail time) no questions asked. Goes to show how far out of touch they are, stupid bastards!

MurtsAir · Post by **MurtsAir** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:19 am

I did my PPL ride on a Fleet Canuck and the examinar had never flown tail wheel before so after I did the final landing I asked if he wanted a go at it. And he said for sure, he was tired of doing flight test on Cherokee's and 172. He was all over the place I even helped him with some rudder imputs when needed after all I dont want a TC guy to reck the plane he'd blame it on me. I think he would have passed me even if I screwed up just because I let him have fun at work.

Hey Thump the old canuck is going on floats soon

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 6:06 am

As time goes by, tailwheel time (and basic stick & rudder skills) have become less and less important.

Unfortunate, perhaps, but true. I flew with a newly-licenced commercial pilot the other day that didn't know how to land in a crosswind.

Seriously. Had to give a fuggen lesson on how to put a little bank into the wind, and opposite rudder. I don't know what they're teaching kids these days, but it sure isn't basic stick and rudder skills. Nosewheel aircraft are incredibly forgiving of terrible handling, so that's what people learn.

You're probably better off learning how to program a computer, because if you're successful, that's all you're going to do in the cockpit of that Airbus everyone constantly has wet dreams of (blech).

Bert · Post by **Bert** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:13 pm

I bet those guys in that Air Transat A330 are glad they had some stick and rudder skills!

TeeKay · Post by **TeeKay** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:01 pm

I think flying a taildragger is overrated (I fly C185, hear me roar...). The stick-and-rudder skills needed to fly a taildragger SHOULD be exactly the same skills in a trike, and that goes from a C150 on up thru turboprops.

If you can land any aircraft right on centreline everytime, with proper wind correction, no drift, right down centre with no yawing in an x-wind (consistently), then you can fly a taildragger as well. No big deal here.

If you strap wings on, and you can't land 'er straight consistently, then sooner or later, you will have a crack-up on landing. I have flown with a few chaps (heck, it even happened to me a few times) where they are so concerned with a nice soft touchdown, to impress the passengers, they miss the fact that we are 20 feet off centreline and going into the bushes. In a King Air. Kinda scary.

First taildragger I flew was a C185. It was an absoute blast, and completely undeserving of a bad rep as being "tricky" to take off or land. It has it's quirks, which you must respect, such as very springy gear (when in doubt, three point it on). But fly it properly, just like you should any other plane, and it won't bite you.

Directional control is actually pretty good, to about 30 Knots on the roll. If one stays on the rudders to catch even the slightest yaw immediately, it will track straight, even in a small x-wind. I even landed many times where I had it trimmed out straight, and it needed not a touch...

Until below about 30 knots on the runway, just when you start to relax. Then the rudder loses effectiveness, and she does get a bit snaky. I think that most guys who have had a bad experience in a tail forget to fly the thing right down to slow taxi speed. Most groundloops probably happen at this point.

I haven't flown a 185 in a while now, but it is the mostest favoritest single I have flown. The only single, actually, which I thought had enough power at G/W to keep from scaring yourself when going out of a short strip. I wish I could find one for cheap to keep current on, just for fun.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:55 pm

I guess we are all the product of our environment and where most airplanes are the "drive it on , drive it off" trikes, I guess that is what we do. I used to work foe an asphault contractor and when I wasn't flying, I used to mess around the shop and just get dirty. I can remember dropping off a flat deck truck for a crew and wanted one of the rakermen to drive me back. He couldn't drive the truck because he couldn't drive a standard. This was a plain simple old Ford F350 flat deck with a standard old Ford 4 speed. Anybody could drive the stupid thing. I went into a 7-11 to buy 2 cans of pop priced @ $1:00 a piece. The clerk had to use a calculator to figure out how much I owed. I couldn't believe it. Another older gent beside me just about shit himself. All he said is what is this world coming to. I dare say that if an experienced pilot had no taildragger time, I could teach him/her in an hour. Regardless of the type of airplane.

Bert · Post by **Bert** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:03 am

The Sad fact is many pilots being turned out of these schools only know the ruder pedals for turning on the ground. I disagree with the thought you could teach it in an hour. Having operated many taildragers over the years id say its almost like float flying itll bite you in the ass if you let it get ahead of ya, I know that could be said for any AC but I think Tailwheel time is becoming a lost art and those who have developed the skills will be a better pilot for it. And for those who dont are missing out on what aviations all about challenging yourself in every aspect of the game.

Elman · Post by **Elman** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:11 pm

They're just plain fun to fly....even if they don't mean a thing on an application I still list it. TeeKay, I disagree on one point though.....conventional gear has improved my flying habits. You can't cheat the crosswinds (and here there are always crosswinds). The experience has been invaluable in that respect, and not overrated at all, especially when most of the runways around have no intersections. Just a good educational experience....too bad not many around anymore flying commercially.

How important is taildragger time?

How important is taildragger time?

I hope I do not get too much grieve!