Is Jazz the right choice

[McKinley]

His/her 703 example is a Unicorn. I know of a handful of 703 positions that are actually better than described. But then there are 95% that are worse. Obviously a case of selective analysis. And if you think King Air time is going to get you to the front of the line for OTS hiring at AC, you may be disappointed (you are competing against 705 CA and FO’s).

As for Jazz, part may be true but part is outrageous bordering on slanderous. Jazz runs a Part 705 operation. Has done so for decades. Historically, aircraft as large as 757 flying international. Currently, flies to every corner of North America. It has a dispatch infrastructure that looks no different than AC. Perhaps a few fresh faces, but also there are some with nearly 4 decades of experience. No difference in MTC. Lots of new faces but all services and paperwork is either performed or supervised by qualified AME’s. Perhaps the confusion here lies in the concept of MEL which is extremely relevant in Part 705 operations.

As for pay and lifestyle - true if you are junior and a new-hire. The starting FO pay is awful, and deductions will chew up much of it. Best schedules belong to the top 25-30% on each roster. Most others will work close to max days and may have little control over the type of flying that they do. Jazz is an airline, not a charter company. Aircraft are operated most hours of the day. That means some crews will be checking in very early, and others checking out quite late. If this is not the desired lifestyle, then airlines will not be your best choice.

Jazz is far from the perfect job. But for many, it meets their career/financial/lifestyle needs. This demographic is fairly senior. For others, it is the best stepping stone to their ultimate career goal which is AC. The first few years at AC don’t look much different than the first few years at Jazz. When they tell you that seniority is everything, they are right. If you don’t like a seniority based system, don’t look at Jazz or AC.

Carson’s YLW medevac operation ( NOT CARGO) would be comparable to Jazz if not better on many levels. ( home every night)

Some guys from the majors have gone to Carson after growing tired of the airline nonsense.

Pay, benefits, schedule.

Uhhhh what pay? Lol last I heard Carson was offering left seat metro jobs for like 46k or something ridiculous like that. Not justifying Jazz’s pay but unless there’s been changes in the last few months the pay at Carson is a joke. Considering it’s an EIC owned company it shouldn’t come as a surprise.

Which is why I specified the Medevac side and not tue metro side…

46K + benefits is still better than 40k ..Also, by the time someone has gone to jazz they likely have a pile of MPIC and or 704/705 time coming from Carson et Al.

[Dirty24.7]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

[genetic jack hammer]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

[negative_g]

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

I'm sorry... WHAT?

Jazz isn't perfect, especially the first few years of FO pay but don't make up blatant lies.

[pitottubey]

It's refreshing to see someones BS getting calling out

[sstaurus]

We must be in the upside-down if carson is being compared to jazz… never thought I’d see the day

[KenoraPilot]

Lol good thing the bank hands out mortgages based on how fun the job is rather than how much it pays

Read my post again. Comparing Jazz to a 703 operator makes you lose all credibility for a debate.

703:

100,000+ per year salary for a king air + benefits
15 days a month worked
Usually does not involve night flying
Home every night
Does own paperwork via flight planning software
May have to clean aircraft
In charge of own schedule ( loading, unloading)
Base where you live
No hotels
8-12 hour days
Has to arrange de-icing
Immaculate maintenance ( depends on the 703/704)
Has to fly with inexperienced crew
Uniform provided
Can transition to AC mainline
Has to pack a snack or flight is catered or healthy food packed

Jazz:

Some medical benefits
34,700 start
Nights, standups, never home, bizarre start hours
18 days a month for pairings
Dispatch: have to double and triple check paperwork errors, apologize profusely to irate customers,
Has to groom aircraft between turns
Mainline schedules and usually makes a mess of said schedule
Base on the opposite end of the country ( YYZ / YUL)
Crap hotels
12-14 hour days
Superiority complex - “ what type of pilot are you going to be.??”
Necessitates second job
Has to arrange ramp servicing / de-icing/hotels/ cabs / irrops/ ramp services
Responsible for 75+ lives
Sub par maintenance
Has to fly with inexperienced crew - only in a 705 environment with complex engine outs
Must purchase uniform
Might go to mainline
Packs own food for 4 days - expensive food on the road necessitating eating crap food due to sweatshop wages

I’m just getting warmed up ..

* note: information is second hand but from people who work at Jazz

You’re right.. The choice is obvious .

Solid 90% of your "statements" are false/wrong/ignorant. I'll give you a pass since you don't work at Jazz and are likely just trying to rile people up.....which is what AvCanada is for lol. Anyone who wants real Jazz information knows someone who actually works there or can find "real" information.

[pirep]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

[genetic jack hammer]

The medevac side of carson is better than jazz any which way you slice it.

I interviewed there a little while back and unfortunately didnt get it, but this is all the info I was able to get during the interview:

-King Air F/O starting pay 55k + night premiums and per diems (this is almost another 10k per year, and since you're not in a hotel for multiple nights those per diems are money in your pocket)
-4 of 4 off schedule, home at the end of every shift
-medical and dental benefits

Ill take 55k on a very well maintained king air and my own bed every night over jazz's excuse of a starting wage and 4 day pairings.

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

Not boasting. The original poster went on about how much per diems Carson pilots get, just thought I’d let him/her, and possibly others, know that other carriers pay out per diems as well, some more than Carson.

[Dirty24.7]

You should do your homework before you start posting non-sense about Jazz. FYI, on a four day pairing, Per Diems can be over $400 CDN, if you elect to take the US amount into CDN dollars. And yes, like every company out there, seniority dictates what you'll get. Shouldn't come as a surprise. You can bid for 1-4 day pairings. Not all junior pilots get stuck with four days on the road. Commuters love them. I've seen junior capts and f/o's get single day pairings. Some also bid for four day trips for the per diems. Pick up a few overtime shifts and a block holder can bring in $1400+ per diems in a month. Do the math on that...and it's also money in your pocket.

Once again, there's that comment about working on a well maintained king air. Can you give it a rest? Jazz has exceptional maintenance. I've been here over 16years, flown all fleets. Never had sub par maintenance, as a previous poster alluded too. Please stop with the unsubstantiated slanderous comments. Are you at Jazz? If you were and you saw something that made you worry, you'd have a duty to report it. If you're an outsider who has a friend who hates it jazz, there's a really easy solution to that. Don't like the starting wages at Jazz? Then don't apply here. It's not rocket science. Would it be fair for me to make comments about sub par maintenance at Carson, or any other carrier? No.

Glad Carson is working out for some. For some, Jazz is also working for them really well.

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

Not boasting. The original poster went on about how much per diems Carson pilots get, just thought I’d let him/her, and possibly others, know that other carriers pay out per diems as well, some more than Carson.

I never said jazz dosen't pay per diems. reading comprehension alludes you bud.
But having to find cheap food options to save those per diems and picking up over time and ending up working 20+ days a month just to get by sure sounds like its alot of fun for new hires.
One more note, i never said Jazz has bad maintenance, it seems you misunderstood, I was more so making a general statement about smaller operators and how bad their maintenance can be. Once again, reading comprehension, nowhere in my statement was there an attack directly at jazz maintenance.

Anyway im not gonna continue to argue, Jazz seems like a fantastic place to make a career if you got in a long time ago, however i do feel bad that new people coming to jazz were shafted by ALPA and stiffed with one of the worst contracts for a regional in north america for the next 15 years, on top of having to be based in some of the most expensive cities in the world. HIghway robbery.
If Jazz is your stepping stone to Air Canada and you dont mind being the lowest paid pilot in north america for your level of work, go for it. But tread lightly as it seems the winds are shifting and Jazz may no longer be the best option to get there, especially since it looks like ULCC's south of the border might open the flood gates for Canadians, time will tell.

[rudder]

……. Jazz seems like a fantastic place to make a career if you got in a long time ago, however i do feel bad that new people coming to jazz were shafted by ALPA and stiffed with one of the worst contracts for a regional in north america for the next 15 years, on top of having to be based in some of the most expensive cities in the world. HIghway robbery.
If Jazz is your stepping stone to Air Canada and you dont mind being the lowest paid pilot in north america for your level of work, go for it. But tread lightly as it seems the winds are shifting and Jazz may no longer be the best option to get there, especially since it looks like ULCC's south of the border might open the flood gates for Canadians, time will tell.

That is a fairly accurate assessment.

Jazz CA that aren’t from “a long time ago” are leaving for DEC positions at companies like Flair and Porter. These are good jobs at reasonable pay (after a couple of years of service). Also front of the line candidates for AC OTS hiring.

By any reasonable analysis, one can forecast that status quo is untenable. But that won’t stop some from clinging to it despite the rapidly changing job prospect environment for CDN pilots.

[genetic jack hammer]

Boasting about per diems, while it's money is not a strong argument for compensation as 1. You need to buy meals and 2. no banks consider it as income when you try to get a mortgage.

Not boasting. The original poster went on about how much per diems Carson pilots get, just thought I’d let him/her, and possibly others, know that other carriers pay out per diems as well, some more than Carson.

I never said jazz dosen't pay per diems. reading comprehension alludes you bud.
But having to find cheap food options to save those per diems and picking up over time and ending up working 20+ days a month just to get by sure sounds like its alot of fun for new hires.
One more note, i never said Jazz has bad maintenance, it seems you misunderstood, I was more so making a general statement about smaller operators and how bad their maintenance can be. Once again, reading comprehension, nowhere in my statement was there an attack directly at jazz maintenance.

Anyway im not gonna continue to argue, Jazz seems like a fantastic place to make a career if you got in a long time ago, however i do feel bad that new people coming to jazz were shafted by ALPA and stiffed with one of the worst contracts for a regional in north america for the next 15 years, on top of having to be based in some of the most expensive cities in the world. HIghway robbery.
If Jazz is your stepping stone to Air Canada and you dont mind being the lowest paid pilot in north america for your level of work, go for it. But tread lightly as it seems the winds are shifting and Jazz may no longer be the best option to get there, especially since it looks like ULCC's south of the border might open the flood gates for Canadians, time will tell.

I'm sorry, my bad. My post was meant for McKinley's unsubstantiated claims and accusations. No harm.

[vanislepilot]

I don't work at Jazz, but I see this thread also being titled "Is going from a 703/604 to 705 the right choice?

Yes x1000, especially if you're young.

Am I saying that all 703/604 are bad? No not at all, lots can offer people what they want and need to be happy.

If you like to travel, Seven oh five....

My partner and I have flown to Europe for half money than a single nosebleed seat in a leafs game.

You get a lot of time off, which you can stack and pretty much have a vacation every month if you want to.
I remember how much of a pain in the ass it was just to get a few days off in a row to visit family when I worked 703/604.

Don't feel fit to fly? Book off, no questions, no explanations, no bs.

Just show up and fly the airplane, you will learn lots and enjoy doing it.

If you have even the smallest inclination of going 705, do it. I don't even know how it's a debate.

[canadian_aviator_4]

It was. Now, no. However, please come to replace current pilots so we can go to AC

[john.gottiteflon69]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

[cdnavater]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

Hey,
Old Jazz Head here, I’m not mad at your post, in fact I find it kind of amusing. There is way too much to unpack but suffice to say you have some of your facts wrong. I don’t know what Air BC and Air Ontario have to do with anything, they were wholly owned by AC and opposite ends of the country but whatever, you hold on to that thought.
Hate to break it to you, you won’t find a DB pension anywhere except government jobs perhaps, maybe that’s where you should focus your career.
So what have you done to improve Jazz, you came here knowing full well the pay and conditions with the sole intention of leaving, in essence suppressing the wages by accepting them, your colleagues thank you!
You can improve Jazz and I do want you to take it the way I intend, leave, leave now, your attitude is poisonous and I’m sure you’re a joy to be around. I have not seen the low morale you speak of, no doubt there is some, but it’s the ones who refuse to accept the consequences of their choices.
I wish you well on your journey, and you leaving will help the Jazz pilots as a whole, the more of “you” the better. After all when we signed the contract, the original 10 year, I specifically asked a VP if they were worried that by lowering the starting pay to that level we wouldn’t be able to hire enough pilots, his response was, I’m paraphrasing, we’ll know in a few months if we went too far.
I voted for it based on that, if pilots didn’t come wages would go up without losing any bargaining capital, guess what, they just kept coming and here we are, listening to whiny children blaming everyone except themselves.
Good luck with you interviews, I hope you get it, for your sake and ours, remember though your choice to leave will have consequences! Maybe good, maybe bad who will you blame, the old Jazz heads?

“Maintenance is average( I have found the maintenance, both line and heavy to be top notch and trustworthy, I’m offended that you even suggested this!)
Lay overs short(Welcome to regional flying)
Pay garbage(See above post)
Pension garbage(See above re pension)
Alpa mec support garbage( if you are referring to support on the flow, they’ve retained lawyers and are working on a plan, they also communicated that it doesn’t seem AC will be able to fulfill their obligations but since it’s an annual requirement, there was literally nothing they could do until the tally at the end of the year, what more do you want)
Flow to ac non existent”(See above)

[CaptDukeNukem]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

Hey,
Old Jazz Head here, I’m not mad at your post, in fact I find it kind of amusing. There is way too much to unpack but suffice to say you have some of your facts wrong. I don’t know what Air BC and Air Ontario have to do with anything, they were wholly owned by AC and opposite ends of the country but whatever, you hold on to that thought.
Hate to break it to you, you won’t find a DB pension anywhere except government jobs perhaps, maybe that’s where you should focus your career.
So what have you done to improve Jazz, you came here knowing full well the pay and conditions with the sole intention of leaving, in essence suppressing the wages by accepting them, your colleagues thank you!
You can improve Jazz and I do want you to take it the way I intend, leave, leave now, your attitude is poisonous and I’m sure you’re a joy to be around. I have not seen the low morale you speak of, no doubt there is some, but it’s the ones who refuse to accept the consequences of their choices.
I wish you well on your journey, and you leaving will help the Jazz pilots as a whole, the more of “you” the better. After all when we signed the contract, the original 10 year, I specifically asked a VP if they were worried that by lowering the starting pay to that level we wouldn’t be able to hire enough pilots, his response was, I’m paraphrasing, we’ll know in a few months if we went too far.
I voted for it based on that, if pilots didn’t come wages would go up without losing any bargaining capital, guess what, they just kept coming and here we are, listening to whiny children blaming everyone except themselves.
Good luck with you interviews, I hope you get it, for your sake and ours, remember though your choice to leave will have consequences! Maybe good, maybe bad who will you blame, the old Jazz heads?

“Maintenance is average( I have found the maintenance, both line and heavy to be top notch and trustworthy, I’m offended that you even suggested this!)
Lay overs short(Welcome to regional flying)
Pay garbage(See above post)
Pension garbage(See above re pension)
Alpa mec support garbage( if you are referring to support on the flow, they’ve retained lawyers and are working on a plan, they also communicated that it doesn’t seem AC will be able to fulfill their obligations but since it’s an annual requirement, there was literally nothing they could do until the tally at the end of the year, what more do you want)
Flow to ac non existent”(See above)

You must be one of the pilots who’s salary I’m supporting with my $800 a month benefit plan.

[cdnavater]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

Hey,
Old Jazz Head here, I’m not mad at your post, in fact I find it kind of amusing. There is way too much to unpack but suffice to say you have some of your facts wrong. I don’t know what Air BC and Air Ontario have to do with anything, they were wholly owned by AC and opposite ends of the country but whatever, you hold on to that thought.
Hate to break it to you, you won’t find a DB pension anywhere except government jobs perhaps, maybe that’s where you should focus your career.
So what have you done to improve Jazz, you came here knowing full well the pay and conditions with the sole intention of leaving, in essence suppressing the wages by accepting them, your colleagues thank you!
You can improve Jazz and I do want you to take it the way I intend, leave, leave now, your attitude is poisonous and I’m sure you’re a joy to be around. I have not seen the low morale you speak of, no doubt there is some, but it’s the ones who refuse to accept the consequences of their choices.
I wish you well on your journey, and you leaving will help the Jazz pilots as a whole, the more of “you” the better. After all when we signed the contract, the original 10 year, I specifically asked a VP if they were worried that by lowering the starting pay to that level we wouldn’t be able to hire enough pilots, his response was, I’m paraphrasing, we’ll know in a few months if we went too far.
I voted for it based on that, if pilots didn’t come wages would go up without losing any bargaining capital, guess what, they just kept coming and here we are, listening to whiny children blaming everyone except themselves.
Good luck with you interviews, I hope you get it, for your sake and ours, remember though your choice to leave will have consequences! Maybe good, maybe bad who will you blame, the old Jazz heads?

“Maintenance is average( I have found the maintenance, both line and heavy to be top notch and trustworthy, I’m offended that you even suggested this!)
Lay overs short(Welcome to regional flying)
Pay garbage(See above post)
Pension garbage(See above re pension)
Alpa mec support garbage( if you are referring to support on the flow, they’ve retained lawyers and are working on a plan, they also communicated that it doesn’t seem AC will be able to fulfill their obligations but since it’s an annual requirement, there was literally nothing they could do until the tally at the end of the year, what more do you want)
Flow to ac non existent”(See above)

You must be one of the pilots who’s salary I’m supporting with my $800 a month benefit plan.

If you’re paying 800, what do you think I’m paying!
Tell me though, you are just passing through, why exactly should I sacrifice my salary to improve your situation, I’d like an answer that isn’t just some selfish reason.
Don’t get me wrong, I DON’T want you to suffer, I just think you shouldn’t have come in the first place. You chose to sacrifice pay for the carrot of AC, I’m not going to AC so why exactly should I give a flying fart about your life’s choices.
It’s time for you to realize, Jazz and AC know you are invested and will only pay just enough to keep you dangling, maybe it’s time for you and your ilk to grow a pair, send them a message with your resignation.

You remind me of this old fable, a man walks up to a woman in the bar and asks her if she would sleep with him for a million dollars, she thinks about it and how a million dollars would change her life. She finally says yes, then the man says, we’ll how about a hundred. She slaps him and says what kind of woman do you take me for? He responds, we’ve already established that, now we are haggling the price!

[daedalusx]

You see, the Baby Boomer is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a parasite, selfish, profiteer, real estate speculator, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Boomer and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out!"

[cdnavater]

You see, the Baby Boomer is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a parasite, selfish, profiteer, real estate speculator, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Boomer and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out!"

If that’s directed at me, I wish I was a “Boomer” as a Gen Xer I still have a ways to go to retirement and I’m very tired of this current generations bitching and moaning about how we screwed them over, grow a pair and own your shit.
I made a few choices in my career that landed me unemployed, I didn’t fucking whine about it, I used some different skills to pay the bills while I waited for the flying jobs to pick back up.
You know what my generation did when we couldn’t pay our bills, we worked more jobs, fucken pansies!

[canadian_aviator_4]

You see, the Baby Boomer is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a parasite, selfish, profiteer, real estate speculator, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Boomer and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out!"

If that’s directed at me, I wish I was a “Boomer” as a Gen Xer I still have a ways to go to retirement and I’m very tired of this current generations bitching and moaning about how we screwed them over, grow a pair and own your shit.
I made a few choices in my career that landed me unemployed, I didn’t fucking whine about it, I used some different skills to pay the bills while I waited for the flying jobs to pick back up.
You know what my generation did when we couldn’t pay our bills, we worked more jobs, fucken pansies!

Calm down cdnavater. Not sure what has you so angry at everyone. Seriously relax and provide more constructive feedback instead of f this and f that. Jazz has a good program for therapy to deal with anger management issues.

[cdnavater]

You see, the Baby Boomer is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a parasite, selfish, profiteer, real estate speculator, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Boomer and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out!"

If that’s directed at me, I wish I was a “Boomer” as a Gen Xer I still have a ways to go to retirement and I’m very tired of this current generations bitching and moaning about how we screwed them over, grow a pair and own your shit.
I made a few choices in my career that landed me unemployed, I didn’t fucking whine about it, I used some different skills to pay the bills while I waited for the flying jobs to pick back up.
You know what my generation did when we couldn’t pay our bills, we worked more jobs, fucken pansies!

Calm down cdnavater. Not sure what has you so angry at everyone. Seriously relax and provide more constructive feedback instead of f this and f that. Jazz has a good program for therapy to deal with anger management issues.

Sorry, didn’t mean to hurt your delicate feelings, I’ve given you the wrong impression, I’m not seething at the keyboard, some times an fbomb is needed to convey a point.
You’ve said a couple things in other threads I can agree with, like get rid of flow for more pay but I suspect that would extremely limit the amount Jazz pilot going to AC.
Time will tell but it’s looking like no deal is imminent, so status quo for now. Maybe you’ll be in one of those Nov courses, good luck, I mean that. Don’t take a bad attitude over with you, realize you are choosing to go under the conditions in effect and nobody held a gun to your head, the seniors didn’t sell you out, they gave you a choice.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Hey,
Old Jazz Head here, I’m not mad at your post, in fact I find it kind of amusing. There is way too much to unpack but suffice to say you have some of your facts wrong. I don’t know what Air BC and Air Ontario have to do with anything, they were wholly owned by AC and opposite ends of the country but whatever, you hold on to that thought.
Hate to break it to you, you won’t find a DB pension anywhere except government jobs perhaps, maybe that’s where you should focus your career.
So what have you done to improve Jazz, you came here knowing full well the pay and conditions with the sole intention of leaving, in essence suppressing the wages by accepting them, your colleagues thank you!
You can improve Jazz and I do want you to take it the way I intend, leave, leave now, your attitude is poisonous and I’m sure you’re a joy to be around. I have not seen the low morale you speak of, no doubt there is some, but it’s the ones who refuse to accept the consequences of their choices.
I wish you well on your journey, and you leaving will help the Jazz pilots as a whole, the more of “you” the better. After all when we signed the contract, the original 10 year, I specifically asked a VP if they were worried that by lowering the starting pay to that level we wouldn’t be able to hire enough pilots, his response was, I’m paraphrasing, we’ll know in a few months if we went too far.
I voted for it based on that, if pilots didn’t come wages would go up without losing any bargaining capital, guess what, they just kept coming and here we are, listening to whiny children blaming everyone except themselves.
Good luck with you interviews, I hope you get it, for your sake and ours, remember though your choice to leave will have consequences! Maybe good, maybe bad who will you blame, the old Jazz heads?

“Maintenance is average( I have found the maintenance, both line and heavy to be top notch and trustworthy, I’m offended that you even suggested this!)
Lay overs short(Welcome to regional flying)
Pay garbage(See above post)
Pension garbage(See above re pension)
Alpa mec support garbage( if you are referring to support on the flow, they’ve retained lawyers and are working on a plan, they also communicated that it doesn’t seem AC will be able to fulfill their obligations but since it’s an annual requirement, there was literally nothing they could do until the tally at the end of the year, what more do you want)
Flow to ac non existent”(See above)

You must be one of the pilots who’s salary I’m supporting with my $800 a month benefit plan.

If you’re paying 800, what do you think I’m paying!
Tell me though, you are just passing through, why exactly should I sacrifice my salary to improve your situation, I’d like an answer that isn’t just some selfish reason.
Don’t get me wrong, I DON’T want you to suffer, I just think you shouldn’t have come in the first place. You chose to sacrifice pay for the carrot of AC, I’m not going to AC so why exactly should I give a flying fart about your life’s choices.
It’s time for you to realize, Jazz and AC know you are invested and will only pay just enough to keep you dangling, maybe it’s time for you and your ilk to grow a pair, send them a message with your resignation.

You remind me of this old fable, a man walks up to a woman in the bar and asks her if she would sleep with him for a million dollars, she thinks about it and how a million dollars would change her life. She finally says yes, then the man says, we’ll how about a hundred. She slaps him and says what kind of woman do you take me for? He responds, we’ve already established that, now we are haggling the price!

I agree with some other members in this thread. Not sure why you are so pissed off at everything and everyone. I’m sure you pay way more than me for the extremely overpriced benefit plan.

Also, what makes you think I chose to work at jazz? And what makes you think it’s a stepping stone for me? You don’t know anything about my life and aviation path. So step 1, stop assuming things and feeling sorry for yourself.

Your fable is a funny one. It also can be turned into the exact thing that jazz/AC is doing to the pilot group.

The woman in the bar is the pilot group, and the man in your fable is management. Jazz had a great thing going. Then Jazz management scared people in signing a contract extension that is mediocre….. AT BEST. Yet everyone jumped on it. That’s haggling over the price. Maybe the contract worked for you, and I don’t blame you for voting yes to it. Thing is: jazz won’t exist if the jazz lifers keep up with this line of thinking.

I’m happy you’re happy at jazz. What you may or may not realize is what the group has given away. But Jesus dude, lose the anger.

[canadian_aviator_4]

In summary. No!

[smooth]

Seriously? we are comparing Jazz to some 703 operator? LOL. Don't get me wrong, Jazz is underpaid for their FOs and other issues, but Jazz is still the best regional airlines under Air Canada, if not the best regional airlines pilots can go. Good maintenance, proper 705 airplanes and training department(getting 250hr college CPL to a 705 machines). Not some Metroliner/DC3 that no one in the world flys(which we are so proud of... ) and airplanes that suppose be in the museum 20 years ago. Some people are out of their mind on this forum....jokes

Metroline hahhahahahahhahaha okay....I'm out