Upcoming Air Canada vote ..

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Voter turnout - 93.3%

Has that ever happened before?

25 years ago. Strike vote 97% turnout. 97% vote to strike.

But that was pre bankruptcy ACPA. An ACPA that no longer exist.

This vote is very different in that it is in opposition to the union rather than in support of it.

The demographics are changing at AC with all the hiring. It started showing last fall in elections. It has increased with every vote and recall since. Actually if you were looking you could see changes happening two years ago in votes. They were losses but close ones.

Last fall looked like 60% of those voting were fed up. In the spring 68% fed up and showed it in a recall. Summer election saw 70% fed up. Now 80%.

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Unity in Action.pdf

(583.1 KiB) Downloaded 242 times

[canadian_aviator_4]

This no vote, should it happen, has nothing to do with anti Jazz or anti flow from Jazz.

AC has a commitment to Jazz for flow and will have to figure it out.

AC needs to negotiate with Jazz regarding this shortage as well.

ACPA should not have deleverage Jazz in this MOA with a scope change.

This is a very anti unity within the pilot group deal. It needs to be thrown into the lav. The ACPA MEC changes to pro ALPA come January. The company and the old ACPA supporters are just trying to push through crap while they can.

Congratulations to AC for strong unity in the vote. Regarding jazz pilots, resolving the AC hiring issue will be drawn out over many months. It’s not in jazz management’s favour to have the AC hiring agreement honoured and they will try to get away with it not being met for as long as possible. Grievances take time. Lots and lots of time.

Therefore even with a fix, jazz pilots are losing many seniority spots to off the street pilots.

[Ash Ketchum]

This no vote, should it happen, has nothing to do with anti Jazz or anti flow from Jazz.

AC has a commitment to Jazz for flow and will have to figure it out.

AC needs to negotiate with Jazz regarding this shortage as well.

ACPA should not have deleverage Jazz in this MOA with a scope change.

This is a very anti unity within the pilot group deal. It needs to be thrown into the lav. The ACPA MEC changes to pro ALPA come January. The company and the old ACPA supporters are just trying to push through crap while they can.

Congratulations to AC for strong unity in the vote. Regarding jazz pilots, resolving the AC hiring issue will be drawn out over many months. It’s not in jazz management’s favour to have the AC hiring agreement honoured and they will try to get away with it not being met for as long as possible. Grievances take time. Lots and lots of time.

Therefore even with a fix, jazz pilots are losing many seniority spots to off the street pilots.

I guess it may not be a bad time to leave Jazz now and go to a place like Flair/WJ for quicker flow to AC as an OTS candidate.

[flyingcanuck]

This no vote, should it happen, has nothing to do with anti Jazz or anti flow from Jazz.

AC has a commitment to Jazz for flow and will have to figure it out.

AC needs to negotiate with Jazz regarding this shortage as well.

ACPA should not have deleverage Jazz in this MOA with a scope change.

This is a very anti unity within the pilot group deal. It needs to be thrown into the lav. The ACPA MEC changes to pro ALPA come January. The company and the old ACPA supporters are just trying to push through crap while they can.

Congratulations to AC for strong unity in the vote. Regarding jazz pilots, resolving the AC hiring issue will be drawn out over many months. It’s not in jazz management’s favour to have the AC hiring agreement honoured and they will try to get away with it not being met for as long as possible. Grievances take time. Lots and lots of time.

Therefore even with a fix, jazz pilots are losing many seniority spots to off the street pilots.

I guess it may not be a bad time to leave Jazz now and go to a place like Flair/WJ for quicker flow to AC as an OTS candidate.

thinking about it...

[tango308]

This no vote, should it happen, has nothing to do with anti Jazz or anti flow from Jazz.

AC has a commitment to Jazz for flow and will have to figure it out.

AC needs to negotiate with Jazz regarding this shortage as well.

ACPA should not have deleverage Jazz in this MOA with a scope change.

This is a very anti unity within the pilot group deal. It needs to be thrown into the lav. The ACPA MEC changes to pro ALPA come January. The company and the old ACPA supporters are just trying to push through crap while they can.

Congratulations to AC for strong unity in the vote. Regarding jazz pilots, resolving the AC hiring issue will be drawn out over many months. It’s not in jazz management’s favour to have the AC hiring agreement honoured and they will try to get away with it not being met for as long as possible. Grievances take time. Lots and lots of time.

Therefore even with a fix, jazz pilots are losing many seniority spots to off the street pilots.

I guess it may not be a bad time to leave Jazz now and go to a place like Flair/WJ for quicker flow to AC as an OTS candidate.

Let's see what Jazz gets us:

- Lowest paid 705.
- On top of the above you get VERY VERY VERY expensive insurance premiums. Deductions amounting to about 50% of gross.
- AC Flow now essentially gone. I hope you enjoy your place on the seniority list, cuz you're going to be there for a while!
- Crew sched willingly breaking the collective agreement.
- DH all over the country in Y. No J for you even if you have 3 legs to operate after.

WS, Flair, AT are all good options at this point if you want to make it to AC the quickest.

[Transition9er2]

You guys need to start peppering your union with emails asking very specific questions about what happens next and expressing your frustrations.

While this MOA was going on we had phenomenal engagement from the pilot group to our union members and it’s paying off.

Complaining about it on a public forum won’t do anything. Start spreading the word amongst your peers. Screen shot your emails to the union and share it with as many pilots as you can and encourage as many of them to do the same. Start getting vocal.

***A word of caution though, keep your communication professional and respectful***

Your pilot group is in a very good position right now to demand change. The more pilot groups standing up and demanding MORE from their employers the better off we all are!

[daedalusx]

- DH all over the country in Y. No J for you even if you have 3 legs to operate after.

No J for you even if the seats are available.


They did that shit to me all the time when I was on reserve.
> Be on call all day in YYC RSV A
> 1 hr before you expire, last minute dead head to YUL so that you can do 1 leg in the evening to YVO.
> flight is overbooked so you can’t even check in to get an aisle seat.
> Get seated in J.
> Just before doors closes, get bumped back to Y in a middle row seat because some non-pilot AC employee showed up last minute wearing yoga pants travelling on their personal passes, meanwhile you’re standing there in uniform deadheading 4 fucking hours after 10 hours of reserve to do a 1 hours leg that could have been done by a YUL guy
> Booked off for fatigue as soon as I stepped out of the deadhead flight.

If they want to send you across the country in cattle class, use your fatigue pass.

[Ash Ketchum]

Congratulations to AC for strong unity in the vote. Regarding jazz pilots, resolving the AC hiring issue will be drawn out over many months. It’s not in jazz management’s favour to have the AC hiring agreement honoured and they will try to get away with it not being met for as long as possible. Grievances take time. Lots and lots of time.

Therefore even with a fix, jazz pilots are losing many seniority spots to off the street pilots.

I guess it may not be a bad time to leave Jazz now and go to a place like Flair/WJ for quicker flow to AC as an OTS candidate.

Let's see what Jazz gets us:

- Lowest paid 705.
- On top of the above you get VERY VERY VERY expensive insurance premiums. Deductions amounting to about 50% of gross.
- AC Flow now essentially gone. I hope you enjoy your place on the seniority list, cuz you're going to be there for a while!
- Crew sched willingly breaking the collective agreement.
- DH all over the country in Y. No J for you even if you have 3 legs to operate after.

WS, Flair, AT are all good options at this point if you want to make it to AC the quickest.

Agree 100%.

[rudder]

Bottom line - Jazz has a lot of questions to answer about its flow obligation and the CBA.

I wonder what they are telling pilots at the interview phase when they ask about the (supposed) flow guarantee?

The MOA failed. There is no substitute arrangement. Flow obligation is supposed to be 60% measured annually.

I also wonder if this will finally be the trigger to see a multilateral solution? Reality is there is no way that ACPA is going to address this issue in isolation. A potential timeline to resolution could be months or potentially years away.

Meanwhile, Jazz remains one of the lowest paid entry level 705 pilot jobs in Canada. There is something that Jazz can focus on and remedy unilaterally.

[Stu Pidasso]

- DH all over the country in Y. No J for you even if you have 3 legs to operate after.

No J for you even if the seats are available.


They did that shit to me all the time when I was on reserve.
> Be on call all day in YYC RSV A
> 1 hr before you expire, last minute dead head to YUL so that you can do 1 leg in the evening to YVO.
> flight is overbooked so you can’t even check in to get an aisle seat.
> Get seated in J.
> Just before doors closes, get bumped back to Y in a middle row seat because some non-pilot AC employee showed up last minute wearing yoga pants travelling on their personal passes, meanwhile you’re standing there in uniform deadheading 4 fucking hours after 10 hours of reserve to do a 1 hours leg that could have been done by a YUL guy
> Booked off for fatigue as soon as I stepped out of the deadhead flight.

If they want to send you across the country in cattle class, use your fatigue pass.
[/quote

Just curious how you think you are entitled to Business Class on a different Airline? That's like an AC Pilot being pissed off not getting Business Class deadheading on United.

I see Jazz Trolley Dollies in J and the Pilots in the back - now there is a WTF Question!

[Tbayer2021]

- DH all over the country in Y. No J for you even if you have 3 legs to operate after.

No J for you even if the seats are available.


They did that shit to me all the time when I was on reserve.
> Be on call all day in YYC RSV A
> 1 hr before you expire, last minute dead head to YUL so that you can do 1 leg in the evening to YVO.
> flight is overbooked so you can’t even check in to get an aisle seat.
> Get seated in J.
> Just before doors closes, get bumped back to Y in a middle row seat because some non-pilot AC employee showed up last minute wearing yoga pants travelling on their personal passes, meanwhile you’re standing there in uniform deadheading 4 fucking hours after 10 hours of reserve to do a 1 hours leg that could have been done by a YUL guy
> Booked off for fatigue as soon as I stepped out of the deadhead flight.

If they want to send you across the country in cattle class, use your fatigue pass.
[/quote

Just curious how you think you are entitled to Business Class on a different Airline? That's like an AC Pilot being pissed off not getting Business Class deadheading on United.

I see Jazz Trolley Dollies in J and the Pilots in the back - now there is a WTF Question!

Because he thinks he's an AC pilot. The overwhelming impression I always get from Jazz pilots is that they think they're essentially AC pilots. Its like they don't realize that beneath the paint-job, its a whole different airline that they work for and merely happen to provide CPA flying for AC.

[Dash.Trash]

This no vote, should it happen, has nothing to do with anti Jazz or anti flow from Jazz.

AC has a commitment to Jazz for flow and will have to figure it out.

AC needs to negotiate with Jazz regarding this shortage as well.

ACPA should not have deleverage Jazz in this MOA with a scope change.

This is a very anti unity within the pilot group deal. It needs to be thrown into the lav. The ACPA MEC changes to pro ALPA come January. The company and the old ACPA supporters are just trying to push through crap while they can.

Congratulations to AC for strong unity in the vote. Regarding jazz pilots, resolving the AC hiring issue will be drawn out over many months. It’s not in jazz management’s favour to have the AC hiring agreement honoured and they will try to get away with it not being met for as long as possible. Grievances take time. Lots and lots of time.

Therefore even with a fix, jazz pilots are losing many seniority spots to off the street pilots.

I guess it may not be a bad time to leave Jazz now and go to a place like Flair/WJ for quicker flow to AC as an OTS candidate.

If your ultimate goal is to get to AC, think about this:

Say you leave for Flair. Put in some time there. Apply at AC and get an interview. How do you think it would go over explaining in an interview why you deserve to be hired by AC, having quit Jazz (causing them to have to replace you, costing them money) to try and skirt around a flow agreement?

Just food for thought.

[Ash Ketchum]

Congratulations to AC for strong unity in the vote. Regarding jazz pilots, resolving the AC hiring issue will be drawn out over many months. It’s not in jazz management’s favour to have the AC hiring agreement honoured and they will try to get away with it not being met for as long as possible. Grievances take time. Lots and lots of time.

Therefore even with a fix, jazz pilots are losing many seniority spots to off the street pilots.

I guess it may not be a bad time to leave Jazz now and go to a place like Flair/WJ for quicker flow to AC as an OTS candidate.

If your ultimate goal is to get to AC, think about this:

Say you leave for Flair. Put in some time there. Apply at AC and get an interview. How do you think it would go over explaining in an interview why you deserve to be hired by AC, having quit Jazz (causing them to have to replace you, costing them money) to try and skirt around a flow agreement?

Just food for thought.

I don't think they care tbh. I think they pretend they do to cause current Jazz pilots to stay put but they would still hire someone who left Jazz. There is after all a shortage of experienced ATPL pilots in this country.

AC just wants the most experienced pilots possible in seats as long as it doesn't impact their express operation.

[RRJetPilot]

Goto Transat if you can. Amazing flying and layovers, amazing culture, great airplanes. Its literally the best flying job in Canada unless you are looking to straight maximize pay.

[DanWEC]

Goto Transat if you can. Amazing flying and layovers, amazing culture, great airplanes. Its literally the best flying job in Canada unless you are looking to straight maximize pay.

SHHHHHH!

[yowflyer23]

Goto Transat if you can. Amazing flying and layovers, amazing culture, great airplanes. Its literally the best flying job in Canada unless you are looking to straight maximize pay.

What about job security?

[canadian_aviator_4]

What is true is that if the company, union, and parties involved in hiring of jazz pilots to ac do not provide any positives updates supporting hiring. Pilots will leave. However, maybe that is what the union wants: Using jazz pilots careers at their whim to improve pay for those that want to stay.
I hope, as our glorious leader Justin puts it, we truly are all in this together. But it’s difficult to be optimistic with little positive news and no new communications.

[Aspiredtofly]

Goto Transat if you can. Amazing flying and layovers, amazing culture, great airplanes. Its literally the best flying job in Canada unless you are looking to straight maximize pay.

What about job security?

There is nothing called job security in any airline. One day your flying to Chicago next day the company gets bankrupt

[RRJetPilot]

Goto Transat if you can. Amazing flying and layovers, amazing culture, great airplanes. Its literally the best flying job in Canada unless you are looking to straight maximize pay.

What about job security?

You think the Quebec government would ever let transat go under? LOL