ALPA Petition

[FL030]

Exciting times! There is a petition started directed at ACPA on whether we should merge with ALPA.

If the petition receives signatures from at least 30% of the active membership within 30 days, the MEC must put the question of the petition to a membership vote. If the membership votes in favour of the question (a simple majority is required, meaning greater than 50% of the votes cast), then the MEC has been directed by the membership to carry out the actions specified in the question.

You can find the link on the AC Pilots Forum.

[teacher]

The sooner the better…..

[Dry Guy]

Just to play devil's advocate, what kind bs do you think ACPA can pull in order to not put this issue to a membership vote? We need to be prepared for that.

[negroni]

Just to play devil's advocate, what kind bs do you think ACPA can pull in order to not put this issue to a membership vote? We need to be prepared for that.

With the current interim chair and makeup of the MEC I don't think that it will be an issue. Current interim chair was MEC chair at an alpa airline.

[flyinhigh]

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that AC pilots figure ALPA will do for them?

Like ACPA, ALPA is run by the pilots. The folks running ACPA could easily run for the LEC, MEC and be voted in and quite frankly do the same stuff.

[rudder]

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that AC pilots figure ALPA will do for them?

Like ACPA, ALPA is run by the pilots. The folks running ACPA could easily run for the LEC, MEC and be voted in and quite frankly do the same stuff.

Yes, in both cases pilots represent pilots.

But at ALPA there is no CEO. That is a management designation.

And the volume of in-house resources available at ALPA vs ACPA are multiple times enhanced. No writing 5 or 6 figure cheques to JJ or others.

Also, the recall provisions actually work.

[TheAlcalde]

Is The CEO’s salary posted in the annual reviews?

[altiplano]

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that AC pilots figure ALPA will do for them?

An effective governance structure is the biggest one.

In ACPA, the power is concentrated in a few behind closed doors. Our constitution is only a suggestion. It's a top down driven model vs. a line pilot driven organization.

Of course the resources ALPA offers are huge too.

We haven't seen a real wawcon comparison, other than the informative videos/graphs put out by individual members, in over a decade. And when they do put out some snippet, usually comparing us to ourselves ie. A scale to B scale to C scale as when they were selling the Cargo concessions they don't get it right! ACPA does not fight contract violations or liberties in language application. The language our LRD comes up with is typically vague and problematic. Comms is horrible, many guys don't even get emails, no social media, few updates, we have important committees that haven't put out an update in years.

I could go on and on... ACPA is ready for the trash. It has served only as a club to empower a few who never did act in our interests, it funds displacements, and pay top ups for their buddies. We've had fully displaced chairs full time doing absolutely.nothing and some doing other things entirely running companies, renovating properties, going back to university - while being paid by the membership. And of course they get out for some nice getaways with $1000 bottles of wine being expensed, not to mention the company swag, nice dinners, box seats at games...

ACPA is irredeemable. BURN IT DOWN.

[Loon-A-Tic]

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that AC pilots figure ALPA will do for them?

Like ACPA, ALPA is run by the pilots. The folks running ACPA could easily run for the LEC, MEC and be voted in and quite frankly do the same stuff.

By migrating to ALPA all Canadian 705 air carrier's will be with the representative body. We may finally be able to generate some "unity" within the larger Canadian pilot fraternity.

[Protonpilot]

But at ALPA there is no CEO. That is a management designation.

And the volume of in-house resources available at ALPA vs ACPA are multiple times enhanced. No writing 5 or 6 figure cheques to JJ or others.

ALPA has a general manager paid in the six figures, manages a staff of hundreds. That was JJ's job at ALPA for over a decade. Same idea as the ACPA CEO.

You're right we won't be writing cheques to consultants for $100,000 anymore. But we will be paying about $5M more in dues by my math.

[dumpsterfire]

Continuing with ACPA is literally the definition of insanity

Total dumpsterfire. Enough is enough

[unionism101]

Jalmer's reputation at ALPA is trash.

There is a reason he isn't there anymore.

He is known for being a disconnected old man. Much like the old guard of ACPA

[Protonpilot]

Continuing with ACPA is literally the definition of insanity

Total dumpsterfire. Enough is enough

I'm happy to listen to a pitch to join ALPA. When the time comes, show me the PowerPoint and make your case. We'll ask our questions and we'll vote on it.

Just don't tell me that we should join ALPA to save money on consultants. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[digits_]

Exciting times! There is a petition started directed at ACPA on whether we should merge with ALPA.

If the petition receives signatures from at least 30% of the active membership within 30 days, the MEC must put the question of the petition to a membership vote. If the membership votes in favour of the question (a simple majority is required, meaning greater than 50% of the votes cast), then the MEC has been directed by the membership to carry out the actions specified in the question.

You can find the link on the AC Pilots Forum.

How is it going with the petition?

[FL030]

How is it going with the petition?

The required signatures have been reached. Next step is an audit by ACPA to confirm the signatures are valid.

[digits_]

How is it going with the petition?

The required signatures have been reached. Next step is an audit by ACPA to confirm the signatures are valid.

That was quick! Good luck!

[Dockjock]

Regarding dues, this is the quintessential cheap pilot pitch. ACPA is cheaper? That’s the pitch? To represent you professionally and enforce your contract, you want the lowest bidder? Fortunately we’ve seen their work and its DIY-grade. Time to bring in the pros. Yes it will be more expensive that’s rather the point.

[schnitzel2k3]

It takes spending money to make money.

So...there is a chance AC pilots will be ALPA repesented in the short to medium term?

[crashpadcommute]

Regarding dues, this is the quintessential cheap pilot pitch. ACPA is cheaper? That’s the pitch? To represent you professionally and enforce your contract, you want the lowest bidder? Fortunately we’ve seen their work and its DIY-grade. Time to bring in the pros. Yes it will be more expensive that’s rather the point.

Truth is once the largest pilot group in the world, American, joins the ranks of ALPA, and AC adds another 4,000, dues will be cheaper than ACPA

[goingmissed]

Truth is once the largest pilot group in the world, American, joins the ranks of ALPA, and AC adds another 4,000, dues will be cheaper than ACPA

ALPA currently represents over 65,000 pilots.

WestJet and Encore both contribute less in dues than they receive back from ALPA. I doubt that Air Canada will be any different.

[RippleRock]

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that AC pilots figure ALPA will do for them?

Like ACPA, ALPA is run by the pilots. The folks running ACPA could easily run for the LEC, MEC and be voted in and quite frankly do the same stuff.

What shallow thinking.

Its the structure of ACPA that has been a toxic nightmare for membership unity. There is no fixing anything. The reps are hamstrung with NDA's and coerced into believing they are "airline representatives". Your capitulation = airline success. ENOUGH. Our numbers are determined by Commercial and the CARS. Our conditions and wages are determined by our contract. This is where it should --always-- begin and end. Full stop.

ACPA representatives believing they are "junior management" has brought nothing but disaster and disunity to our Collective Agreement and our Membership at large. Never forget that we are only a "number". If our Corp could do away with us all tomorrow, there would be carnage. Every one of us would be sent packing, severance be damned. As it stands, we are as necessary as engines and wings.....two required to move an aircraft.

Alti hit it bang on. ACPA is rotten to the core. It must be excised like the cancer it is. We need to remind ourselves that we are merely and "essential element" in a long equation. Our capitulation is the solution to nothing but lower wages and poorer working conditions.... and of course, an "attaboy" for Flight Ops Management from the shareholders for saving them a boatload of cash at our expense. Thats it. ALPA is aware of this, ACPA, not so much.

Also be very aware that United and Delta are --VERY-- successful while having --NO ISSUES-- compensating their pilots properly.

[teacher]

I am genuinely curious as to what it is that AC pilots figure ALPA will do for them?

Like ACPA, ALPA is run by the pilots. The folks running ACPA could easily run for the LEC, MEC and be voted in and quite frankly do the same stuff.

What shallow thinking.

Its the structure of ACPA that has been a toxic nightmare for membership unity. There is no fixing anything. The reps are hamstrung with NDA's and coerced into believing they are "airline representatives". Your capitulation = airline success. ENOUGH. Our numbers are determined by Commercial and the CARS. Our conditions and wages are determined by our contract. This is where it should --always-- begin and end. Full stop.

ACPA representatives believing they are "junior management" has brought nothing but disaster and disunity to our Collective Agreement and our Membership at large. Never forget that we are only a "number". If our Corp could do away with us all tomorrow, there would be carnage. Every one of us would be sent packing, severance be damned. As it stands, we are as necessary as engines and wings.....two required to move an aircraft.

Alti hit it bang on. ACPA is rotten to the core. It must be excised like the cancer it is. We need to remind ourselves that we are merely and "essential element" in a long equation. Our capitulation is the solution to nothing but lower wages and poorer working conditions.... and of course, an "attaboy" for Flight Ops Management from the shareholders for saving them a boatload of cash at our expense. Thats it. ALPA is aware of this, ACPA, not so much.

Also be very aware that United and Delta are --VERY-- successful while having --NO ISSUES-- compensating their pilots properly.

I’d like to add that ACPA is happy to push concessions in order to “capture the flying” and under cut our competition. This has been justification for decades and used by execs of all airlines to erode pilot wages and working conditions. “The other guys will do it cheaper” excuse will no longer fly.

When this passes the days of pitting pilot groups against each other will be over. Many companies, 1 union. Our job is to fly the plane, not compete against other pilots.

[Fanblade]

You're right we won't be writing cheques to consultants for $100,000 anymore. But we will be paying about $5M more in dues by my math.

Apples and oranges

How much would it cost to recreate the resources that ALPA has at ACPA?

[Protonpilot]

Jalmer's reputation at ALPA is trash.

There is a reason he isn't there anymore.

He is known for being a disconnected old man. Much like the old guard of ACPA

Right...and you were told this by your contacts high up at ALPA in Washington. Blowing smoke, methinks.

I guess that's why the pilots at Southwest and UPS hired JJ as their financial consultant when negotiating their most recent CBAs. And American pilots currently have him as their financial guy (they just announced a TA by the way, no details yet).

[unionism101]

Jalmer's reputation at ALPA is trash.

There is a reason he isn't there anymore.

He is known for being a disconnected old man. Much like the old guard of ACPA

Right...and you were told this by your contacts high up at ALPA in Washington. Blowing smoke, methinks.

I guess that's why the pilots at Southwest and UPS hired JJ as their financial consultant when negotiating their most recent CBAs. And American pilots currently have him as their financial guy (they just announced a TA by the way, no details yet).

TRASH

Go to any pilot conference and bring up his name

Guaranteed you will get a lot of smirks

And SWAPA uses a lot more than just one source for information unlike ACPA which uses him as gospel

And AA is coming to ALPA as well. I wonder why when they could have the Jalmer