Best 705 retirement plans

[Blueontop]

Just looking to get an idea of which 705 operator has the best retirement plan? I’m assuming AC but possibly WestJet or another company? This would be for someone joining around 40 years of age and looking maximize another 25 years before hanging up the hat, tia!

[Dronepiper]

Why do people worry so much about retirement?? I have seen so many people work their ass off to save so much money for retirement, just to either die before they hit 65, or die within 12 months of retirement.

I would much rather spend my money now and enjoy my life while I can. People need to remember that they are human.

I’m not saying you should not save anything, but I think people who work their ass off to save millions for retirement are idiots.

Life is short. Please make sure you do what you want now, and don’t wait for a retirement that may never come.

[canadian_aviator_4]

No one has a good retirement plan. Pensions have been gone for years. Welcome to Canada

[rando]

No one has a good retirement plan. Pensions have been gone for years. Welcome to Canada

Won’t our homes all be worth 10x by retirement just like our parents? Reverse mortgage and live like a king!

[co-joe]

No one has a good retirement plan. Pensions have been gone for years. Welcome to Canada

Won’t our homes all be worth 10x by retirement just like our parents? Reverse mortgage and live like a king!

I had a buddy who'd dad thought like that, the nice people from Chip reverse mortgage showed up the day after the funeral and handed him a bill for more than the house was worth payable immediately. If you want to hand bankruptcy to your children go for it.

[YC87DRVR]

Scrape by till 65 cause your company rrsp contributions, ex wife(wives) alimony, wakesetter and f-350 payments equal to more to an your income. Sell everything, retire to crappy mobile home park in Florida and die a couple years later. Like a real Canadian pilot.

Another option, come to Westjet and fly domestically past 65, then complete the rest of the plan.

[negroni]

No one has a good retirement plan. Pensions have been gone for years. Welcome to Canada

Won’t our homes all be worth 10x by retirement just like our parents? Reverse mortgage and live like a king!

I had a buddy who'd dad thought like that, the nice people from Chip reverse mortgage showed up the day after the funeral and handed him a bill for more than the house was worth payable immediately. If you want to hand bankruptcy to your children go for it.

Debts don't pass to your children in Canada. They would lose the house, but if it's not enough to cover the cost of the loan then the risk falls on the lender.

[co-joe]

Won’t our homes all be worth 10x by retirement just like our parents? Reverse mortgage and live like a king!

I had a buddy who'd dad thought like that, the nice people from Chip reverse mortgage showed up the day after the funeral and handed him a bill for more than the house was worth payable immediately. If you want to hand bankruptcy to your children go for it.

Debts don't pass to your children in Canada. They would lose the house, but if it's not enough to cover the cost of the loan then the risk falls on the lender.

No but he had all the funeral, cremation, moving hs stuff, and other costs, figured the house might help...nope. And they don't give you a second to figure out what to do. They're blood suckers there to get their pound of flesh and then they're gone.

[rudder]

Just looking to get an idea of which 705 operator has the best retirement plan? I’m assuming AC but possibly WestJet or another company? This would be for someone joining around 40 years of age and looking maximize another 25 years before hanging up the hat, tia!

AC

[altiplano]

At AC you would get a guaranteed pension for life with survivor benefits for your spouse.

If you joined at 40 you could go as early as 60 with an unreduced pension or stay longer, up until your 65 and increase your pension size.

It's not perfect because you don't have direct control and it's tied into your AC employment, but at least you'll know that you won't run out of money and the cheques will come every month.

Save another 10% of your income during your 20-25 years into a diversified investment account and you will come out alright. If you don't have the alimony to cover you'll still probably have the F350, boat, and condo in Florida to go with it.

[rooster]

Why do people worry so much about retirement?? I have seen so many people work their ass off to save so much money for retirement, just to either die before they hit 65, or die within 12 months of retirement.

I would much rather spend my money now and enjoy my life while I can. People need to remember that they are human.

I’m not saying you should not save anything, but I think people who work their ass off to save millions for retirement are idiots.

Life is short. Please make sure you do what you want now, and don’t wait for a retirement that may never come.

I think people who think others are idiots for doing what THEY think is best for THEM, are idiots. What a stupid thing to say. I don't know anyone who hit 65 and died. Honestly all the retired folk I know who worked their asses off to save for their retirement are living their best lives right now. So I don't know what the &^$% you're talking about Dronepiper.

My parents are in their late 70's, still bouncing around travelling the world. Guess what, my dad worked his ass off to save millions for his retirement and him and my mother are living the frickin dream. Same with my sister's parents

[airway]

Jazz DC pension for new hires:

2022-10-29.png (401.81 KiB) Viewed 2649 times

[Old fella]

Why do people worry so much about retirement?? I have seen so many people work their ass off to save so much money for retirement, just to either die before they hit 65, or die within 12 months of retirement.

I would much rather spend my money now and enjoy my life while I can. People need to remember that they are human.

I’m not saying you should not save anything, but I think people who work their ass off to save millions for retirement are idiots.

Life is short. Please make sure you do what you want now, and don’t wait for a retirement that may never come.

Retirement.... well, being close to three quarters of a century here.

Nobody cares what you did/didn't do over your working years or how good/bad you were, more important you won't care yourself.I know a couple of retired AC captains(ex EPA, CAI), they certainly care less that I didn't go in that direction and I care less that they did.

There are far superior people who didn't live as long as I currently have and there will be dipshits/ arseholes with a fatter bank account with a better lifestyle who will live longer than me.

Don't congratulate nor berate yourself on accomplishments or lack thereof, everything was half chance - you did or you didn't.

Finally...

Don't dwell on retirement to much but do keep an eye on it as that is the direction you and all the rest are heading. Remember what you did or didn't do last year or five years back you can't take it back nor will anybody else be able to give it to you.

[tbaylx]

At AC you would get a guaranteed pension for life with survivor benefits for your spouse.

If you joined at 40 you could go as early as 60 with an unreduced pension or stay longer, up until your 65 and increase your pension size.

It's not perfect because you don't have direct control and it's tied into your AC employment, but at least you'll know that you won't run out of money and the cheques will come every month.

Save another 10% of your income during your 20-25 years into a diversified investment account and you will come out alright. If you don't have the alimony to cover you'll still probably have the F350, boat, and condo in Florida to go with it.

I'm under the impression that AC is a defined contribution match like any other employer.

Do you have any information on how it is guaranteed for life with survivorship benefits? Is it not a simple employer match (+ a few% after YOS)?

[rudder]

I'm under the impression that AC is a defined contribution match like any other employer.

Do you have any information on how it is guaranteed for life with survivorship benefits? Is it not a simple employer match (+ a few% after YOS)?

Here you go -

https://www.cwipp.ca/

[Mach1]

Any executive level position will come with a great retirement package.

[TheAlcalde]

Why do people worry so much about retirement?? I have seen so many people work their ass off to save so much money for retirement, just to either die before they hit 65, or die within 12 months of retirement.

I would much rather spend my money now and enjoy my life while I can. People need to remember that they are human.

I’m not saying you should not save anything, but I think people who work their ass off to save millions for retirement are idiots.

Life is short. Please make sure you do what you want now, and don’t wait for a retirement that may never come.

Im glad you wrote that. I needed a reminder that most of the advice on this site is from people who I wouldn’t trust with my dry cleaning.

[negroni]

At AC you would get a guaranteed pension for life with survivor benefits for your spouse.

If you joined at 40 you could go as early as 60 with an unreduced pension or stay longer, up until your 65 and increase your pension size.

It's not perfect because you don't have direct control and it's tied into your AC employment, but at least you'll know that you won't run out of money and the cheques will come every month.

Save another 10% of your income during your 20-25 years into a diversified investment account and you will come out alright. If you don't have the alimony to cover you'll still probably have the F350, boat, and condo in Florida to go with it.

I'm under the impression that AC is a defined contribution match like any other employer.

Do you have any information on how it is guaranteed for life with survivorship benefits? Is it not a simple employer match (+ a few% after YOS)?

Google "Canada Wide Industrial Pension Plan"

It's a target benefit pension, contributions are similar to how a DC plan is funded.

[BigQ]

Never ever EVER depend on someone or something else other than yourself for your retirement.

AC has a nice pension, but never fully depend on it for retirement. We all know how companies underfund their pension schemes and then *poof* "aww shiiiet guys, we don't have enough money to cover"

[Dronepiper]

Why do people worry so much about retirement?? I have seen so many people work their ass off to save so much money for retirement, just to either die before they hit 65, or die within 12 months of retirement.

I would much rather spend my money now and enjoy my life while I can. People need to remember that they are human.

I’m not saying you should not save anything, but I think people who work their ass off to save millions for retirement are idiots.

Life is short. Please make sure you do what you want now, and don’t wait for a retirement that may never come.

Im glad you wrote that. I needed a reminder that most of the advice on this site is from people who I wouldn’t trust with my dry cleaning.

How many people do you know who never made it to retirement? How many people do you know who died too young and never got to enjoy life because they were too busy saving money??

I’m not saying don’t save anything. That would be stupid. Everyone should have at least a paid off house, a reliable car, and a modest source of income for 10-15 years incase you live to 80 years old.

If you are able to save a bit more, great! But please don’t sacrifice life experience at young age for more retirement money.

What scares me is that no one in my family has actually made it to retirement. My mother died young (Under 50 years old), my Dad (Under 60), my grandfather also died 6 months after retiring at 65, and my great grandfather died at age 62.

What’s really shitty is seeing someone save and save and save for retirement, have all of these plans and bucket list items for retirement, just to not have the opportunity to fulfill any of those goals or bucket list items because they got cancer and died before they got use their money they worked so hard for.

I know of multiple Pilots who never made it to 65. I also know of lots of pilots who lived to 80. Honestly it’s a gamble.

[Just another canuck]

Why do people worry so much about retirement?? I have seen so many people work their ass off to save so much money for retirement, just to either die before they hit 65, or die within 12 months of retirement.

I would much rather spend my money now and enjoy my life while I can. People need to remember that they are human.

I’m not saying you should not save anything, but I think people who work their ass off to save millions for retirement are idiots.

Life is short. Please make sure you do what you want now, and don’t wait for a retirement that may never come.

Im glad you wrote that. I needed a reminder that most of the advice on this site is from people who I wouldn’t trust with my dry cleaning.

How many people do you know who never made it to retirement? How many people do you know who died too young and never got to enjoy life because they were too busy saving money??

I’m not saying don’t save anything. That would be stupid. Everyone should have at least a paid off house, a reliable car, and a modest source of income for 10-15 years incase you live to 80 years old.

If you are able to save a bit more, great! But please don’t sacrifice life experience at young age for more retirement money.

What scares me is that no one in my family has actually made it to retirement. My mother died young (Under 50 years old), my Dad (Under 60), my grandfather also died 6 months after retiring at 65, and my great grandfather died at age 62.

What’s really shitty is seeing someone save and save and save for retirement, have all of these plans and bucket list items for retirement, just to not have the opportunity to fulfill any of those goals or bucket list items because they got cancer and died before they got use their money they worked so hard for.

I know of multiple Pilots who never made it to 65. I also know of lots of pilots who lived to 80. Honestly it’s a gamble.

I agree with Dronepiper on this one. My mother died in her early 50's just 6 months before retirement. My father was already done. They worked and worked so once the kids were gone and work was behind them, they could see the world and live the life of luxury. Then my old man found himself alone and miserable and no one to share it with. They drove the same vehicles, had the same furniture and never travelled all so they could do it in retirement.

Well no thanks.

I'll save a few bucks. I live a relatively modest lifestyle. But I'll enjoy myself and spend now. With my wife. With my kids. After all, I could be dead tomorrow and you can't take it with you.

[Liftdump]

POWER BALL

[altiplano]

At AC you would get a guaranteed pension for life with survivor benefits for your spouse.

If you joined at 40 you could go as early as 60 with an unreduced pension or stay longer, up until your 65 and increase your pension size.

It's not perfect because you don't have direct control and it's tied into your AC employment, but at least you'll know that you won't run out of money and the cheques will come every month.

Save another 10% of your income during your 20-25 years into a diversified investment account and you will come out alright. If you don't have the alimony to cover you'll still probably have the F350, boat, and condo in Florida to go with it.

I'm under the impression that AC is a defined contribution match like any other employer.

Do you have any information on how it is guaranteed for life with survivorship benefits? Is it not a simple employer match (+ a few% after YOS)?

AC Pilots post FOS after on CWIPP. It's a Target Benefit Plan provides a guaranteed pension for life. Based on fund performance, the benefit can fluctuate up or down within the target range, vs. a DB where the earned benefit is fixed at a defined amount.

The CWIPP plan our guys are on have only moved their benefit up during its history. Money is not held or controlled at all by Air.Canada, the fund is completely independent. No company financial involvement or management, no company paid supplementary top hat pension to realize your benefit. No MPUs to negotiate.

A big advantage of this plan vs your typical DC is that there is no limit to how much you can shelter under the plan, ie. 2022 limit is about $29K, but 18% of $200K and you'd be 20% over the limit on a DC. And again, it's independent of AC, no future pension crisis to contemplate, and it's a comparable benefit to the DB under average conditions.

I mean if a guy spends 30 years as an RP and then goes 777 CA for his last 5, he'll do better under the DB, but a guy that upgrades early in his career actually does better on the TBP. This plan pays a benefit based on the total amount you have earned and contributed, vs your best five on a DB.

20 years of service and 60 years of age brings an unreduced benefit vs. 25 years of service and 60 years of age for the DB.

[DanWEC]

I mean if a guy spends 30 years as an RP and then goes 777 CA for his last 5, he'll do better under the DB, but a guy that upgrades early in his career actually does better on the TBP. This plan pays a benefit based on the total amount you have earned and contributed, vs your best five on a DB.

20 years of service and 60 years of age brings an unreduced benefit vs. 25 years of service and 60 years of age for the DB.

If I'm reading this correctly however, you mean the guy who gets hired now and upgrades early can do better than the legacy DB because he has the ceiling to plow more of his income into the fund? So in essence, you can only match the eventual DB pension payout by paying more per month of your existing income into the current scheme. Correct me if I'm misinterpreting, but that's still a monthly net downgrade for your working life compared to the old DB, no?

[altiplano]

I mean if a guy spends 30 years as an RP and then goes 777 CA for his last 5, he'll do better under the DB, but a guy that upgrades early in his career actually does better on the TBP. This plan pays a benefit based on the total amount you have earned and contributed, vs your best five on a DB.

20 years of service and 60 years of age brings an unreduced benefit vs. 25 years of service and 60 years of age for the DB.

If I'm reading this correctly however, you mean the guy who gets hired now and upgrades early can do better than the legacy DB because he has the ceiling to plow more of his income into the fund? So in essence, you can only match the eventual DB pension payout by paying more per month of your existing income into the current scheme. Correct me if I'm misinterpreting, but that's still a monthly net downgrade for your working life compared to the old DB, no?

It's apples to oranges.

Everyone pays 7.5% of their gross.

But the DB guy that spends a career as an RP and then gets best 5 as a WB CA will get the same payout as the DB guy that upgrades early, spends his whole career as a CA and also gets best 5 as a WB CA. The second guy put way more in, but that's the DB pension.

The TBP guy is based on what he puts in, best 5 doesn't matter. The TBP guy that upgrades early and does a full career as a CA will do better than the TBP guy that stays senior FO or the DB guy that doesn't get his best 5 as a WB CA.

To maximize the DB you need best 5 as a WB CA, to maximize the TBP you just need to make more for longer.