When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

[disco]

[/quote]


The Protecting Air Service Act is a Federal statute, currently in force.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/ann ... lText.html


[/quote]

This is incorrect. The Protecting Air Service Act is not currently in force. The Act is "spent".

[Protonpilot]

This is incorrect. The Protecting Air Service Act is not currently in force. The Act is "spent".

It is most definitely spent.

The feds would have to enact a new law. The Liberals don't have a majority so would require the support of at least one other party, especially for something that would require invoking the notwithstanding clause. Hard to see that happening, but you never know. People get annoyed pretty fast when their summer vacation is threatened.

If such a bill were to pass, it would be called something else, "Protecting the Supply Chain Act", "Protecting the Economy Act" etc.

[altiplano]

Trudeau is on record this week saying he supports collective bargaining and circumventing it with legislation and the notwithstanding clause is inappropriate.

Of course he's playing politics with the Ford government pushing CUPE to keep the schools open, but I doubt even Trudeau is hypocritical enough to flip flop here, particularly with NDP propping his gov up.

PASA is dead and in the past, AC pilots absolutely have the right to and should use job action pressure when the time is appropriate.

[JHR]

Start now...no more overtime. Don't answer the phone on days off. No more favours!

[TheAlcalde]

Start now...no more overtime. Don't answer the phone on days off. No more favours!

Too many boats and ex-wives

[cdnavater]

Lol...

Even my 18 yrs old ass knows that

You have a CONSTITUTIONAL right to strike

https://ehlaw.ca/supreme-court-constitu ... to-strike/

Gezus AC pilots are really a beaten down lot!

You were 7 or 8 so I’ll forgive your ignorance,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/air-ca ... -1.1268054

“The back-to-work bill to send a pair of Air Canada labour disputes to binding arbitration passed the Senate on Thursday and was quickly given royal assent.

The legislation covers about 8,600 mechanics, baggage handlers and other ground crew at Air Canada and about 3,000 pilots.

Labour Minister Lisa Raitt had proposed the back-to-work legislation on Monday, saying a work stoppage at the airline would hurt the economy.”

Good thing is that in school these days they teach you about the importance of "dates"

Quoting crap from 2012 gets trumped by stuff written after and offers a new precedent moving forward

The Supreme Court ruled in 2015 that it is our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT

Stay in school kids!

https://ropergreyell.com/resource/const ... ht-strike/

For years, governments have struggled to allow the voluntary resolution of collective bargaining disputes while at the same time protecting the public interest.

That challenge has become more complex now that the Supreme Court of Canada reversed a decades old precedent and concluded that the right to strike is protected as part of the fundamental freedom of association under section 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is one of the latest developments in the Court’s application of section 2(d) to the right to participate in a process of meaningful collective bargaining.

It seems the Ontario Conservatives don’t give a flying fart about the supreme courts ruling, governments will do what they think is in the best interest of Canadians and face the courts later. Which by the way, the damage will already be done by the time it works it’s way through the system.

[schnitzel2k3]

Start now...no more overtime. Don't answer the phone on days off. No more favours!

Too many boats and ex-wives

What's the saying, anything that floats, flies or f&cks, rent it?

[firstofficer]

Now GO transit workers are set to go on strike on Monday…..I believe it’s long overdue the union grow a pair and stand their ground by demanding better wages regardless of whatever criminal laws prevent such demonstrations or even strikes. Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job. They’ll have no option but to listen and negotiate. The Canadian aviation industry generated a revenue of $4.1 billion in the first quarter, 166.8% increase. If the union still can’t cater to their members I think it’s probably best for a new union to take shape because this is simply absurd

[Bede]

Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job. They’ll have no option but to listen and negotiate.

I’m always blown away with comments like this. We are dealing with people who’s life’s work is to make contingency plans. You will almost never find yourself in a situation where the other party has “no option” but to give you what you want. I’ve seen this line of thinking numerous times and watched as an employer executed plan B and someone besides the pilots reaped the rewards. This lack of long term strategic thinking is exactly why we find ourselves in the position that we’re in.

[negroni]

Sorry, where exactly will the airlines find 5000+ atpl pilots overnight? And have them trained and ready to fly?

Your line of thinking is fearful and defeatist. I'm not at all saying we should all just walk off the job. But when the time comes for labor action this group of pilots in this country need to realize the immense power we hold.

We are where we are because of inept union leaders and a government that enforced illegal FOS. If we had balls back then and had taken the government to court (and not signed a new contract just a few years later essentially cementing all the FOS losses) we'd have won and be better off. But that would have taken smarts and unity, and a real union.

[Bede]

Sorry, where exactly will the airlines find 5000+ atpl pilots overnight? And have them trained and ready to fly?

5000+ pilots? No where.
A few hundred pilots to operate a skeleton network? TFW, scabs, managers, picket crossers, charter airlines, etc. They can cut out the least profitable routes and keep a skeleton network going for a bit. Now add in the pissed off travelling public and a government that wants to get re-elected and willing to make your life miserable...

Now may I flip the question? If you're wildcatting en masse, where are 5000+ pilots going to find enough money to put food on the table? You may find that a corporation with deep pockets can outlast your will to strike.

[negroni]

See the thing is I managed to survive almost two years on layoff. If anything covid layoffs showed some of the lowest paid pilots at AC that you can make do if you need to, especially if the result is a significantly improved contract. Short term pain long term gain. A few hundred pilots might be able to keep YYZ-YVR/YYZ-YUL going, but not much else and for how long? A few days? A week at most? The money is made on the overseas flying. A skeleton crew and network ain't going to cut it. And if the Liberals actually pass the anti-scab legislation then that's another checkmark in our favour.

We have all the power, if only we used it.

[twa22]

Sorry, where exactly will the airlines find 5000+ atpl pilots overnight? And have them trained and ready to fly?

5000+ pilots? No where.
A few hundred pilots to operate a skeleton network? TFW, scabs, managers, picket crossers, charter airlines, etc. They can cut out the least profitable routes and keep a skeleton network going for a bit. Now add in the pissed off travelling public and a government that wants to get re-elected and willing to make your life miserable...

Now may I flip the question? If you're wildcatting en masse, where are 5000+ pilots going to find enough money to put food on the table? You may find that a corporation with deep pockets can outlast your will to strike.

Here's the latest example of Kenya Airways pilots striking in a very similar fashion to the AC strike in 2012. They have also been forced back to work as the strike was deemed illegal, yet they push on, just like CUPE has done here last week

https://simpleflying.com/kenya-airways- ... th-strike/

Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.

[negroni]

you're truely a fool.

Or a management shill

[Dry Guy]

It's the crabs in the bucket mentality. We need to get rid of that as a national group. Gains for AC pilots are good for all pilots in Canada.

[Bede]

Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.

This discussion was one of a wildcat while you’re still working under a CA that you voted in, not being on strike when in a legal strike position. There’s a world of difference. I never said that you cannot make gains when in a lawful strike. My comment was one that a wildcat strike would have no outcome other than management coming to the table.

[twa22]

Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.

This discussion was one of a wildcat while you’re still working under a CA that you voted in, not being on strike when in a legal strike position. There’s a world of difference. I never said that you cannot make gains when in a lawful strike. My comment was one that a wildcat strike would have no outcome other than management coming to the table.

Ok i'm not sure what you interpreted from the other posters comments, but I don't believe anyone here was implying walking off the job mid contract... I'm pretty sure the sentiment is that when the time comes for contract negotiations, and when the AC pilot group is in a position to strike, lawfully, SHOULD the unfortunate event of being legislated back to work occur like 2012, the pilot group should have enough unity to stand together, say NO, and proceed with the strike, much like the CUPE strike that is occurring now

[Bede]

Ok i'm not sure what you interpreted from the other posters comments, but I don't believe anyone here was implying walking off the job mid contract...

Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job.

[negroni]

Several legacy carriers around the world have gone on strike this year, and they have all made gains. Like negroni said, we have all the power, and a strike action will surely lead to improvements across the board here

So if you think 5000+ pilots going on strike here won't have any effect on wage improvements, you're truely a fool.

This discussion was one of a wildcat while you’re still working under a CA that you voted in, not being on strike when in a legal strike position. There’s a world of difference. I never said that you cannot make gains when in a lawful strike. My comment was one that a wildcat strike would have no outcome other than management coming to the table.

Yeah that's not at all how I interpreted any of the posts.

[twa22]

Ok i'm not sure what you interpreted from the other posters comments, but I don't believe anyone here was implying walking off the job mid contract...

Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job.

Yea it was obvious you nit picked that one specific post, but you'd think that you would have read between the lines on that one and not taken it literally, given the contexts of the previous posts... Anyways

[Bede]

Yea it was obvious you nit picked that one specific post, but you'd think that you would have read between the lines on that one and not taken it literally, given the contexts of the previous posts... Anyways

Sorry I took it literally because, in the past, I've heard pilots say things along the lines of, "if we do x, they will have no choice but to give us y", to unintended and poor results.

[schnitzel2k3]

What CUPE workers are organizing is impressive, but at the end of the day they are employees in a public sector, poorly paid employees, but public employees. The government intervening in such drastic fashion is becoming more common place as they try justify this breach of the charter of rights. I am disappointed the talks got to this point, particularly in a period of decent financials.

That being said,

When the federal government stepped in, in 2013/14, they dipped their junk into a private labour negotiation with consequences that have affected the aviation industry in Canada for over a decade. Had the membership at the time had the appropriate union leaders to lead them forward, they likely would not have been in such a bent over position as they continue to be today.

The labour shortage is here, perhaps a decade and pandemic late, but it is truly here. 'Recession' be damned, this economy is going to switch gears, and travel is where its headed. You have one of the largest generations in history sitting on an absolute pile of cash, ready to do the many things they held off doing.

It's time to get our fair shake.

[FL030]

Bill 28 repealed! Precedent set! Thank you CUPE. LFG!!